The case for firing Gruden ASAP

[Hail4Life]

Gruden and the coaching staff have lost this team. It seemed far fetched that a 3 year OC coordinator be thrust into the HC role of a dysfunctional franchise and add to that a 1st year OC and one of the worst d-coordinators in NFL history. The team is not motivated, their play has regressed, and Gruden is unable to groom these guys into disciplined players. Usually I would be against firing after one year but we need to fire the entire coaching staff and start fresh. I would say fire Bruce but Dan can't do that because of Bruce's connection/history with the team. Bruce would have to resign or be "promoted" to a different position.

This is why you don't hire the son of a beloved Redskins legend, because he is Redskin family you are basically stuck with him.

[TysonM]

I expect some changes to be made in the offseason, but I don't see Gruden being fired.

 

Unless Snyder gets the itch to throw a ten year guaranteed contract at a coach, that is.  That'll fix everything.

[brandymac27]

I do agree with what you are saying about Griffin.  He does seem more interested in his brand.  Also did anyone else see that smile on his face yesterday when the fans started chanting RG3?  Pissed me off so damn much.  I sit behind the bench and He does little **** like that all the time, this time he just happened to get caught on camera. 

 

However your points about the niners and Seahawks are a bit off.

1) Beast Mode is in Seattle (Lynch) not SF (Kaep)..

2) Wilson is succeeding in Seattle because of that offensive line and the performance of Beast Mode.

What's wrong with Robert smiling when fans chant his name?

[Taylor703]

I do agree with what you are saying about Griffin. He does seem more interested in his brand. Also did anyone else see that smile on his face yesterday when the fans started chanting RG3? Pissed me off so damn much. I sit behind the bench and He does little **** like that all the time, this time he just happened to get caught on camera.

However your points about the niners and Seahawks are a bit off.

1) Beast Mode is in Seattle (Lynch) not SF (Kaep)..

2) Wilson is succeeding in Seattle because of that offensive line and the performance of Beast Mode.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? You're pissed off at someone for smiling. Good god man.

[skinsforlife101]

Gruden will quit and take the Michigan job. Wishful thinking:)

[HogsOfWar]

One more reason:

 

- Firing Gruden after one year would push the Redskins past the Raiders and Jets as the least desirable head coaching job in the NFL.

[redskins59]

Yes, I feel that he needs to be fired as well.  Yesterday's game should never happen.  Zero points?  Even with subpar talent on offense, that should not happen.  Having said that, if Gruden is gone, Allen should be fired as well.  He hasn't acquired enough talent.  His strategy seems to be to  acquire mediocre talent in free agency.  

The correct strategy is probably to 1: Acquire talent in free agency, not mediocre receivers like Andre Roberts and 2: Build through the draft (Never ever trade your draft picks).

The RG3 trade was a huge disaster.  Look at all the talent the Rams acquired.  

The draft has a lot of luck involved.  So I agree with trading down and hoping you get lucky a little bit.  

[tshile]

redskins fans think the team should be managed the way snyder thinks it should be managed.

 

then they turn around and ridicule snyder for the way he manages it.

 

it's interesting to watch.

[dballer]

But this all points to the overall, underlying problem.  Organizational dysfunction.  You don't hire a coach and say "hey, here's three dudes we want to help you".  It won't matter who the coach is until we un**** that issue.  And that comes from the top.

 

And of course a different regime, well same ol Dan, tried to do this once before when they hired Zorn before hiring a head coach. It is mind boggling. 

[DC9]

And of course a different regime, well same ol Dan, tried to do this once before when they hired Zorn before hiring a head coach. It is mind boggling. 

 

I think that Vinny wanted Spags but when Spags said no thanks - Vinny interviewed Fassell and one other dude (can't remember).  They both said they'd get Jim Zorn as their OC.  So Vinny went and got Zorn as his OC, kept Danny Smith, and hired Greg Blache as DC (another guy that Fassell said he would hire on his staff).  Fassell was ripe for the picking after that.

 

But yeah, we're too smart for our own good sometimes.  Except when it comes to keeping FO talent. 

Interesting that Shawn Springs said yesterday the two biggest mistakes that the Redskins have made the last 10 years were not signing Gregg Williams as HC after Gibbs retired and trading that much for RG3.  Love GW, not sure that he was going to be any different, but at least there were two sides of the ball you didn't have to worry about.

[XtremeFan55]

I'll fully admit that Jay was my #2 behind David Shaw.

 

Having said that, he should've never agreed to keep an OC and a DC that he didn't want.  There was a list of "holdovers" when he got here.  Foerster (offensive line), Haslett (defensive coordinator), and McVay (Tightends - Offensive Coordinator).

 

Now, allegedly he wanted McVay, but the other word was that the organization wanted to keep him prior to Gruden even coming in for an interview.  McVay is thought of to be a "hot" future head coaching prospect throughout the league.  Haslett was kept on because he snitched on Shanny.  Jay didn't want him as DC, but was semi-forced into it after the guy he wanted to bring in was promoted in Cincy.  Foerster is an excellent ZBS offensive line coach, but we are transitioning to gap blocking and that's obviously not his strength.

 

All of this didn't sound bad when he was hired, but it's now all in play.

 

Gruden has really done little to justify another year.  Bruce Allen has done even less. 

 

But this all points to the overall, underlying problem.  Organizational dysfunction.  You don't hire a coach and say "hey, here's three dudes we want to help you".  It won't matter who the coach is until we un**** that issue.  And that comes from the top.

No way do you go after a college coach again....no way

 

If anything you need the most experienced professional coach you can get who has been in the league forever and had success...maybe even had won a Super Bowl for some street cred to use for leverage...

 

Oh wait...we already did that...Mike Shanahan...

[Dan T.]

Play to Bob's strengths?  You reference San Fran.  How are they doing by the way?  How much beast mode is Kaep doing these days?

 

Also, Bob's strengths are what he doesn't want to utilize any longer because his only true asset was his legs.

 

Seattle and Wilson?  13 games under 200 yards this year but he takes care of his passes better for sure and has a lower sack rate.

 

I like Bob's physical ability but until he decides to be a football player versus a brand then I don't want him and you will never build strong locker room leadership with that type of attitude.

Your constant bashing of Griffin is getting old. Correction: it got old long ago. Now it's just obnoxious.

[DC9]

No way do you go after a college coach again....no way

 

If anything you need the most experienced professional coach you can get who has been in the league forever and had success...maybe even had won a Super Bowl for some street cred to use for leverage...

 

Oh wait...we already did that...Mike Shanahan...

 

Not advocating for David Shaw right now.

 

If we start over - my dream would be GM to be Eric DeCosta (won't happen) and our HC to be Darrell Bevell (won't happen without a good structure).

[Dan T.]

I do agree with what you are saying about Griffin.  He does seem more interested in his brand.  Also did anyone else see that smile on his face yesterday when the fans started chanting RG3?  Pissed me off so damn much.

He smiled??!?1? Crucify him.

[DC9]

Play to Bob's strengths?  You reference San Fran.  How are they doing by the way?  How much beast mode is Kaep doing these days?

 

Also, Bob's strengths are what he doesn't want to utilize any longer because his only true asset was his legs.

 

Seattle and Wilson?  13 games under 200 yards this year but he takes care of his passes better for sure and has a lower sack rate.

 

I like Bob's physical ability but until he decides to be a football player versus a brand then I don't want him and you will never build strong locker room leadership with that type of attitude.

 

This is a coaching thread.  Not another Griffin thread.

[megared]

I think Gruden (speculation on my part) had different ideas of how this organization was ran/operated, and after a full season is seeing that it is a circus, ran by a bunch of clowns...

 

so i could absolutely see him trying to get out of this mess....

 

Also as a coach, he is going to defend his coordinator (even if he doesnt believe it) because he knows piling on to the media crap storm isnt going to help.

 

Don't make excuses for him.  He has been in the NFL a long time.  He had the knowledge, and/or resources to find out how Dan operates.  And it isn't like he came here and is somehow doing his job amongst chaos.  Do you really think he would have gotten hired if he said "I know ya'll gave up a lot for RGIII, but I'm going to pick up Colt freaking McCoy to run my offense."  Then, he killed any value Griffin has to other teams. 

 

-Our offense is worse.

-All three QBs look terrible.

-Morris is now ineffective.

-WRs aren't being used to their capabilities.  We aren't getting nearly the production from Jackson that an imaginative offense, like Kelly's was able to get.  Garcon doesn't look explosive. 

-Line has and continues to be terrible.

-Penalties for lining up wrong and false starts plague this team.  

 

The sad part is Dan has the leverage.  He wins in any scenario where Gruden isn't coaching the Redskins next year.  He fires Gruden without cause...Gruden gets paid to sit at home and not coach the next four years, effectively killing his career, unless a buyout is reached.  Gruden gets fired for cause, he loses out on the rest of his $20 mil.  Gruden resigns, same thing.

[Rodriggo]

Best player is an Eagles retread that was NEVER part of "their plan" and literally fell from heaven onto their lap. What would this season have been without Desean? 0-13?

 

This year wasn't so much about year one of Gruden as much as it was year 5 of Allen as GM. Clean house, new GM, new staff....literally nothing to lose.

[Shortcut21]

Don't make excuses for him.  

 

I was mostly implying on how the "Washing Redskins Corp" was/is being operated.... 

 

I am not defending the fact that we have a merry go round at QB. Nor am I defending that since Day 1, Gruden appears to be a bit overwhelmed.

[drowland]

To those against it since it's his first year, look at what the Browns did after firing Chud after the 2013. Pettine came in with the same guys and now they're a playoff contender. Not saying we will be playoff contenders next year, but just that if you know the coach isn't the answer, why hold onto him and hope it gets better?

 

There's alot of people on here quick to toss Griffin out after only 4 games in Gruden's system. Yet Gruden has had 13 games and 3 QBs to try and show his system works and we haven't seen much from it. So why hold onto him?

 

The Browns owner also got rid of Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi.  Joe Banner and Bruce Allen are alike in that they're bean counters who think they know football.  Neither should be encharge of personnel.   Then they promoted Ray Farmer who's worked his way up through the scouting and FO ranks to be GM.  Farmer got a pretty good haul of rookie players in the draft and some UDFAs who are playing right away.  And that's with Manziel still an unknown.  

[DC9]

Remember ya'll - last year, the Cleveland Browns fired Chud after one year.  They had something like $60 mil in caps space and two 1st round picks to entice a new HC.  They also had a ton of talent on defense and two premier offensive linemen in the NFL.  They thought they had it made!

 

They also fired Lombardi and re-did their Front Office (Morocco Brown)

 

But by firing Chud after 1 season - they pissed off the coaching fraternity.  They didn't hit on any of their top 3 guys on their list.  Luckily they got Pettine, who is a lesser-known guy but a strong character man and a great defensive mind.  He put together a pretty good staff, too (Kyle).

 

So... We don't have that to offer a coach.  We don't have ANY of that.  We have FIVE maybe SIX players that would start on some NFL teams (not most, some).  We have a perennial mess in the owner's box and an out of date scouting department that look at old measurables and matricies.

 

Why do I post this?  When folks say it's not all about coaching, these are some examples.

 

There is no quick fix.  This team is AT LEAST three years away even with a great coach coming in.

 

So again, in summary, you get rid of Grudes, you get rid of the kit and kaboodle.

[Garcon More Wine]

gruden is not the problem, his offense works.  it worked in cincy, and if we had a GM that could assemble an NFL roster youd see that his offense works.  go watch the 22 film, and see all of our WR running wide open with nobody throwing them the ball.  what this team needs:

 

a GM

a real defensive coordinator

NFL caliber players at key positions (right side of oline, safety, corner, NT)

 

im baffled some of you are clubbing him for wanting to try it with colt.  hes literally tried griffin (who cannot play NFL level QB), kirk (who makes brett favre look like jason campbell in terms of ball security), and colt, who up until yesterday had looked decent.

 

this team needs lots of help.  getting a new HC and bringing in brand new everything isnt the answer.  we have **** ton of talent, we just dont have it at the right spots at the moment.

[DC9]

Best player is an Eagles retread that was NEVER part of "their plan" and literally fell from heaven onto their lap. What would this season have been without Desean? 0-13?

 

This year wasn't so much about year one of Gruden as much as it was year 5 of Allen as GM. Clean house, new GM, new staff....literally nothing to lose.

 

Dan loses over $25 mil in firing these coaches and front office types.

 

And outside of Eric Shaffer, I don't know that there is a front office guy worth keeping.  But he's gotta go too if there is to be a full reboot.

 

And for me, that includes Larry Michael and everyone.

[Rodriggo]

Dan loses over $25 mil in firing these coaches and front office types.

 

And outside of Eric Shaffer, I don't know that there is a front office guy worth keeping.  But he's gotta go too if there is to be a full reboot.

 

And for me, that includes Larry Michael and everyone.

 

I don't care about Snyder's money. He can't roll this out again next year b/c people will just not even go. Either way he's putting himself in a position where he might look to sell which would be one of the best days of my life.

[darrelgreenie]

The case for firing Gruden has many layers.

 

But for me the sum is this...admit the structure is effed up so you can start fresh.

 

So you fire Jay you fire Bruce and you hire a qualified GM and give this team this organization a real chance to begin again...again.

[TankRizzo]

I'm ok with keeping him.  I'm ok with getting rid of him too, but if that decision is made, Bruce Allen needs to fall on his sword and relinquish all control over anything not related to homecoming or the fall harvest.  If he doesn't do it himself Snyder needs to step up and clean house.  ...and by relinquishing control I DO NOT mean handing it all over to AJ Smith.  I mean going out and finding an upcoming guy and giving him full autonomy.