Diehard Otis Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 After reading the various threads over the course of the season, it has occurred to me that we all have some wildly divergent views on The Program. So in this thread, I wanted to discuss them. Let me be crystal clear about what I mean: To this point, based on everything that you have seen & read about these Washington Redskins, do you believe that they will be successful on a consistent basis? And to fully define the prior statement - -- By "these Redskins", I am referring to the core group of Players, all of the Coaches on staff, the entire Front Office, Scouting Department, all of 'em. Everyone that is gainfully employed right now by The Washington Redskins. --And by "Success", I mean do you believe in their ability to become a perennial Division & Conference Contender going forward? Essentially, their ability to Win Football Games & post Winning Seasons going forward. I ask because from what I gather, some believe in RGIII while some don't. However, many don't like Allen as the GM. But it seems that most are inclined to give Head Coach Gruden his fair chance to figure it all out. So the point is, with everything as it is do you think we turn this thing around? And not necessarily for just this season. But going forward, have we gotten it figured out? Why or why not? What do you think we've gotten right, what did we get wrong? Let's discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 i think we do ... However, when addressing parts one and two of your performance indicator, I'm not sure ... And by "Success", I mean do you believe in their ability to become a perennial Division & Conference Contender going forward? I don't think so ... just because no teams except for the Pats and Colts do this ... really, think about it, I'm talking last 10-12 years. Our division is too good for one team to consistently be the best. Props to Eagles for their run last decade. Essentially, their ability to Win Football Games & post Winning Seasons going forward. This, I think we can pull off. I really like what I see in Coach Gruden ... I think Bruce, while not perfect is a more stable and competent FO person than what we had in years ... plus he bleeds B&G. We have a solid young core, Reed, Griff, Djax, Pierre, Alfred, the Corners, and our LB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread is premature. We can guess, make our assertions, and that's what a message board is for, but half a year into a new coach is not the time to be asking... Is it gold? It's a symptom of a microwave culture. We want everything done and knowable immediately. A rookie bust in his first year has been known to be a HOFer in six. Let the pot simmer a bit. That said, just to answer the thread. I like a lot of the ingredients in this stew and think that they can win. I think that a little more shopping is prudent and that the spices aren't quite right. So, a few more veggies in the scouting department, thicken up the sauce on the line, maybe replace some protein on the D side of coaching. At 3-5, no one would say, "We've made it!" or worse, "I'm satisfied with the front office, coaching, and playing core," but maybe you can say... "Hmm... something's smelling pretty good in the kitchen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes gortiz, I fully believe in The Program. [Although it must be stated for the record that I'm a more hardcore homer than Larry Michael. But if you've seen me around here then you already knew that] As for this season, I believed that we started slow & had a shot at making a late season charge. Be careful what you wish for, eh? And going forward, I am heavily optimistic. Sure, Coach isn't perfect - as I am one of those that doesn't like his pass happy tendencies - but he has emphatically established that to play on his team, you gotta compete & you gotta play well. Or you will be replaced. That speaks VOLUMES! And I personally believe that approach will reap dividends. I think Bruce, while not perfect is a more stable and competent FO person than what we had in years ... plus he bleeds B&G. We have a solid young core, Reed, Griff, Djax, Pierre, Alfred, the Corners, and our LB's. I agree. I was somewhat surprised to see how many folks don't believe he can get the job done. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt...still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread is premature. We can guess, make our assertions, and that's what a message board is for, but half a year into a new coach is not the time to be asking... Is it gold? It's a symptom of a microwave culture. We want everything done and knowable immediately. A rookie bust in his first year has been known to be a HOFer in six. Let the pot simmer a bit. That said, just to answer the thread. I like a lot of the ingredients in this stew and think that they can win. I think that a little more shopping is prudent and that the spices aren't quite right. So, a few more veggies in the scouting department, thicken up the sauce on the line, maybe replace some protein on the D side of coaching. At 3-5, no one would say, "We've made it!" or worse, "I'm satisfied with the front office, coaching, and playing core," but maybe you can say... "Hmm... something's smelling pretty good in the kitchen." Well Burgold, that's my point exactly. How do the people of ES feel about our Program given the early returns? I know its early, but based on what I was seeing during the losing streak, it seemed like a lot of posters had serious misgivings about The Program in place. Sure some of it was grousing over the lousy start, but after the first 8, what's the impression? Do fans here think Allen-Gruden-RGIII et al are the answer? Why or why not? If nothing else, I was curious on what the collective impression is at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Is like to add more scouts to the front office as we have a very small scouting team compared to the rest of the keague. im still in favor of replacing Haslett, but feel we can be competitive going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 Is like to add more scouts to the front office as we have a very small scouting team compared to the rest of the keague. im still in favor of replacing Haslett, but feel we can be competitive going forward. WoW, didn't know that one. In that case, I fully agree FanMania. There's certainly no such thing as too many scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I also think this thread is premature, if just because our view is incomplete. What we would have said two weeks ago would be different from what we'd say now, and probably will be different from what we will say at the end of the season. What you'd like to see from a team in our situation, with a new head coach and a team that's struggling, is players getting more comfortable with the coaching staff and system, seeing growth from players and seeing some of them take on bigger roles and general improvement over time. I think we are seeing some of that and the process will continue through the end of the season. At that point, we can see if we made enough and where we need to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 IF Gruden got his message across to let him decide who plays and who doesn't then I think we will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsnut1823 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm lukewarm on where we stand. If I look to other first year coaches we've had I can somewhat gauge gruden so far. If you go bottom of the barrel ie zorn,spurrier, we are well ahead of their starts in terms of coaching maturity NFL wise. I say that because Grudens offense is known while sorbs and spurriers wasn't. The core guys (I'm nervous about Morris) on offense is a great starting point. Defense is a mixed bag. Some of that is on Haslett and some of that is talent. How much so on either side is debatable. I'm trying to look at this objectively and not through the burgundy and gold glasses from Monday's win. Front office again somewhat of a mixed bag. DeSean pickup looks like a great acquisition for the money and short term deal. Orakpo eh? Not sold on him. Overall have we had the Albert hanysworth type disasters no. So from our putrid Free agent past I'd have to wait and see this off season as we come off the RG3 deal and one year removed from the cap restriction. So I said some things and nothing at the same time. But to agree with the opening reply it's a bit too early to really tell if this is the makings of a future perennial winner. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not at the moment (at least I'm excited for Sundays again tho) but I think we have to wait til after the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You measure by progress. Do we look better than last year? Yes. We've also won the same amount of games as last year. So I see progress. The rest of the stuff remains to be seen and it's too early to say. There's things I really like, and things I don't. We'll see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcdiscokid Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Is like to add more scouts to the front office as we have a very small scouting team compared to the rest of the keague. im still in favor of replacing Haslett, but feel we can be competitive going forward. I can find no evidence of ours being significantly smaller, but this article seems to indicate the entire league under-spends on this. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Are-NFL-scouting-departments-underfunded.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I have no idea. I think, in general, we have a good number of people in place. I'd be shocked if there aren't some changes that would need to be made before we are contenders though. I can find no evidence of ours being significantly smaller, but this article seems to indicate the entire league under-spends on this. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Are-NFL-scouting-departments-underfunded.html It's the next wave of innovating and using cash to succeed in the NFL. Eventually an owner or two will do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I do believe in Jay's program. The issue is the GM/Owner program. That, I'm not so sure about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I do believe in Jay's program. The issue is the GM/Owner program. That, I'm not so sure about I believe in Jay too. But I'm curious Sinister, why don't you believe in Allen? Please, do tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjfadeaway Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yes. Took a look at a few stats for the team. 5th in the leauge passing wise, High rated for yards allowed per game on D. We just need to execute better now. I think this team is in good hands. I think players are buying in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Too soon to tell, people are tasting the batter and ****in' about how the cake tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Too early to even begin talking "core." Heck, I wouldn't even use that word until they string back to back playoffs seasons together. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY saw Breeland's performance coming for example. Can't start proclaiming a future dynasty week to week. Let these guys grow, struggle, succeed, struggle again and eventually congeal into something. What's becoming clear is that Gruden is getting something out of this team and is actively trying to squeeze the most he can out of the roster because he wants to WIN. The fight they showed Monday was gargantuan but at the end of the day, they're still 3-5 thru the easiest part of their schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I believe in Jay too. But I'm curious Sinister, why don't you believe in Allen? Please, do tell. For him personally, because he is not a football guy. He is a cap guy. Because he tried to sell the BS that last year was entirely on Shanahan, when, from the moment Mike left, the retaining of Haslett, to the Rak franchise tag, to the signing of all these free agents who, with the exception of Jackson, have done zilch, to the head scratching draft (with the exception of Breeland). Looking at his entire body of work so far, I am not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenDavis Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well Burgold, that's my point exactly. How do the people of ES feel about our Program given the early returns? I know its early, but based on what I was seeing during the losing streak, it seemed like a lot of posters had serious misgivings about The Program in place. Sure some of it was grousing over the lousy start, but after the first 8, what's the impression? Do fans here think Allen-Gruden-RGIII et al are the answer? Why or why not? If nothing else, I was curious on what the collective impression is at this point. During the losing streak I didn't think we were on the right track. Then we win 2 games in a row including the win at Dallas and my opinion changed. If we go out and lay an egg against the Vikings my opinion will go back to where it was. So I believe it may be a bit early for this discussion. If we can get to 8 wins this year then I will most likely be of the opinion that we are back on the right track. As fans the only way for us to grade the organization is wins and losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinpride1 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Need to do a better job drafting thats my number one complaint. .the front office has left to many gaping holes on the roster. Neglecting the o-line is at the top. We still have too many average players ..we need more above average players and pro bowlers on the team...if the skins ever want to compete every year this has to be fixed...im tired of the 3-13 seasons followed by a squeak into the playoffs every 5 years..I mean com on man ..not to bright are ya!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I don't think we can win a championship with Haslett. He called a good game against Dallass, but historically he's done a good job in confusing Romo. I just don't think we can win consistently with him. I like Gruden. If the FO drafts better to fill our holes, and RG3 turns into the real deal, I think Jay could win a lot of games. But since this question is talking about this specific team, I'm gonna say no. Too many holes. Too many early losses. But I hope we can win the next two and keep it interesting. Still a lot of football to be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Benching Kirk for Colt and benching Morris were the type of moves that I personally have not seen around here in a long time. They were measured, they were rational, they were correct, AND THEY WORKED. Kirk was a floppy *** against Tennessee, Colt came in and got the job done and absolutely gave his entire being on Monday (Dat dive tho...still screaming it). Morris was dragging ass in the first half Monday, got benched and when he came back in had AN EXTRA GEAR. Something is happening here, you can't deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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