A fundamental problem: We don't understand what kind of bad owner Snyder is

[No_Pressure]

I remember a few years ago (back when Madden used to be fun and let you do whatever you wanted) there was a franchise mode where you could mess with your team's parking, ticket prices, concessions, etc.

 

If Dan Snyder played that mode, he would strip out as many amenities (fan appreciation, free stuff, etc.) as possible and sell them for the highest price it would let you.

 

Hell, baseball teams play what...80 something home games? It seems every week they have some fan promotion where they give 20,000 fans a shirt, bobblehead, hat, etc. There are 8 NFL home games which are far more profitable and I've been to quite a few. I don't remember getting anything ever. Maybe once I got a seat cushion or something, but then again I might just be confusing it vaguely with fond memories of a game played in 1991...

 

Also, there are a number of culture changes needed around here. The culture changes with the actual football product are difficult and require a cleansing of staff and a realization of what is in fact necessary to succeed in the NFL, which is something that Dan Snyder will never arrive at for the same arrogant reasons that Jerry Jones still thinks he's a good general manager. It only takes one miracle season in 6 or so to convince idiots like that that they've put together a great roster all on their own, and reinforce their crazy behavior for the next 10 years.

 

The culture at the stadium is awful however and it will never change. Dan Snyder can talk about how he's a fan all he wants. I know what kind of fan he is. He's the kind of fan who probably had season tickets growing up and pretends he went to all the games. If it was cold out or raining he probably stayed on the couch. He's probably the type who would put off a Redskins game in favor of a date in college. In the stands he was probably that typical fan you see who doesn't make noise at the proper moments, who has a hard time actually following whats happening on the field because he's never played football and doesn't have an eye for it, and he was probably the guy who would be standing there all game going "WHY DON'T THEY THROW THE BOMB TO XXXX THIS PLAY?!?!?"

 

So it is no wonder that he doesn't understand as an owner how to cultivate an atmosphere like they have in Seattle, or like they have in Kansas City. Those fans are rowdy even when their team is so-so because the stadium is actually populated by, uhh...FANS.

 

Get rid of the corporate seats, lower the seat prices to an affordable price, do away with the bull**** "season ticket wait list" kill this idea of dream seats. Upper level for $35.00, middle for $65, lower for $95. Police the stubhub re-sale of stadium tickets as well as the Capitals have done with playoff tickets down here. Get the casual fans out of FedEx Field, make it affordable for regular fans, lose the corporate bull****, and stop making it so easy for opposing fans to take over.

 

All he would see there is a loss of dollar signs. In the long term, he could probably keep the concessions and stadium amenities at high prices, even find some new services to charge for. If the team were ever good, you could easily make up the losses, and when we're talking about losses let's be clear. Its the difference between making money and making money. Dan Snyder does not need the Redskins any longer as a business investment. He owns the franchise and it is worth over a billion. He has a ****load of money. He does not need his revenue to be so high.

 

I could understand if the high prices were translating to high dollar moves in the organization to improve the team and improve the fan experience. Ticket prices this high and we have a ****tier stadium experience than the poorest teams in the league. I'll bet the Jacksonville, Buffalo, and Cincy fans have much better places to play than we do. Everyone says poor Snyder inherited the building so blame JKC. It's true that JKC made a lot of mistakes with FedEx, but in the past 15 years the only real improvement I've noticed was the new scoreboard, and as the most valuable franchise out there at the time, we were the last team in the NFL to get one.

 

Dan Snyder is a money grubber. He does not put back in what he's taking out. He never has, he never will, and ultimately he casually cares about this team succeeding, but when they don't he just goes back to his expensive mansion and has some of his slaves bring him a fillet mignon with some Redskins trademarked wine and he's just fine.

[kleese]

I remember a few years ago (back when Madden used to be fun and let you do whatever you wanted) there was a franchise mode where you could mess with your team's parking, ticket prices, concessions, etc.

If Dan Snyder played that mode, he would strip out as many amenities (fan appreciation, free stuff, etc.) as possible and sell them for the highest price it would let you.

Hell, baseball teams play what...80 something home games? It seems every week they have some fan promotion where they give 20,000 fans a shirt, bobblehead, hat, etc. There are 8 NFL home games which are far more profitable and I've been to quite a few. I don't remember getting anything ever. Maybe once I got a seat cushion or something, but then again I might just be confusing it vaguely with fond memories of a game played in 1991...

Most people confuse those "fond memories."

RFK was a dump. Ugly, nasty, gross. I went there once in 1994 and was totally disappointed. It wasn't like JKC was bending over backwards to put carpet in the concourses or upgrade the urinals or anything. It was a cramped concrete box that severely lagged behind other stadiums I'd visited around that time. But no one noticed or cared because the team (not in 1994) was good and people left the building feeling good about the product on the field.

[chipwhich]

Most people confuse those "fond memories."

RFK was a dump. Ugly, nasty, gross. I went there once in 1994 and was totally disappointed. It wasn't like JKC was bending over backwards to put carpet in the concourses or upgrade the urinals or anything. It was a cramped concrete box that severely lagged behind other stadiums I'd visited around that time. But no one noticed or cared because the team (not in 1994) was good and people left the building feeling good about the product on the field.

 

Best post you ever made.

 

Those of us who went to RFK in the glory years and in the post Gibbs era realize RFK was a toilet bowl not worthy of a football team.  My last game at RFK I sat under a leaky pipe.  The place was a dump and the Gibbs era was over so the team sucked.  There was no bouncing bleachers, no cheers of we want dallas, no swag or mojo at all.

[kleese]

Best post you ever made.

Those of us who went to RFK in the glory years and in the post Gibbs era realize RFK was a toilet bowl not worthy of a football team. My last game at RFK I sat under a leaky pipe. The place was a dump and the Gibbs era was over so the team sucked. There was no bouncing bleachers, no cheers of we want dallas, no swag or mojo at all.

Yep, the one time I went the place was probably only 80% full at kickoff and half empty midway through third quarter. And that was three years removed from a SB.

Not defending Snyder, just want consistency. If you are going to rip him for not making FedEx more fan friendly, then you should also rip JKC for subjecting his fans to that garbage pile RFK.

[Skins24]

So, if this is a fast food restaurant and someone spits in our food, we're basically angry at the owner of that restaurant. He hired the guy who hired the guy who spit in our food. Fine. But what do we do if by chance we get a correct order? It has happened a few times, and I'm sure it'll eventually happen again. How are we supposed to feel? There are currently at least four active threads about the owner. Were there this many during a correct order?

Has anything new been said in this or any of the other threads? Just curious.

Pointing out that Snyder is a bad owner during times of angst is more of a psychological thing I guess?

Anyway, looking back do we think Milhouse... Milstein...or whatever his name is would have done a better job? (Serious question.)

Also, where is he now?

[Destino]

So, if this is a fast food restaurant and someone spits in our food, we're basically angry at the owner of that restaurant. He hired the guy who hired the guy who spit in our food. Fine. But what do we do if by chance we get a correct order? It has happened a few times, and I'm sure it'll eventually happen again. How are we supposed to feel? There are currently at least four active threads about the owner. Were there this many during a correct order?

Has anything new been said in this or any of the other threads? Just curious.

Pointing out that Snyder is a bad owner during times of angst is more of a psychological thing I guess?

Anyway, looking back do we think Milhouse... Milstein...or whatever his name is would have done a better job? (Serious question.)

Also, where is he now?

If you went to a restaurant 10 times and it was good twice, average once, and terrible seven times would you argue it was well managed? Counting this season as a last place finish in the NFCE, the Redskins in the last ten years, will have finished last seven times and made the playoffs twice.

[BraveWarrior]

We can complain about Snyder all we want, and there are some excellent posts here by people who are complaining about him. However, he's the owner and he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. He's not going to fire himself. So, we either grin and bear it because we still love our team despite all the Snyder-based flaws, or we do like a few people here have suggested and hit in in the pockets. But that means not going to games, not buying merchandise, not watching them on TV, i.e. - doing all the things that fans of teams do. So, if we are going to choose the latter option, would we really even be fans anymore? What do we do while we wait for our sanctions to have an effect on him? Do I go root for the Bears or something until I see Snyder either upgrade the facilities, hire more scouts, and bring in a GM who actually knows what a good football player looks like and doesn't just coordinate dinners and calculate the cap figures?

 

I used to defend Snyder because I loved the fact that he was a guy who made enough money that he could go out and buy his favorite team. But since he's done that, he's just made one bad decision after another. But as long as the Redskins exist, I will be a fan, so I've just got to deal with him. Maybe you all can turn the conversation from pointing out all the bad decisions to trying to figure out a way to get Dan to fix some things and keep his ship from taking on more water.  

[AdmiralWaugh]

not true. Some people on here have done their research.

 

Very flawed research, indeed.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I will never go overboard on criticism of the game-day experience at FedEx Field. I've been lucky enough to go to NFL games at 8 or 9 stadiums, and they all suck. By and large, an NFL football as a live experience is miserable. It's a 10 hour march where the main goal is getting home in time to check the fourth quarter of the late afternoon game.

 

Probably the best experience I had was sitting in a luxury box in Baltimore (seriously, everyone should own a luxury box), and even that involved what had to be a 3-mile walk to my car before and after the game.

 

My father in law used to spend ungodly amounts of money in Philly for great seats and parking, and that was good, because it meant that you did not have to interact with all that many of the more colorful Eagles fans. But to this day, I'm not sure of the cost involved in that. Part of me would have preferred him just writing me a check instead.

 

Christ, a dude just got paralyzed in San Francisco's new palace.

[pjfootballer]

A bad season for Pittsburgh (7-9, 6-10) is a good season for us.  Big difference.  Even in their bad seasons, they are still fighting for wild card spots. Meanwhile back in DC, we're celebrating with parades when we hit 8 wins.  I miss the days when we expected to win.  I want to get back to 10-13 wins a season and competing for division titles, playoff berths and championships.

 

And I agree with LKB.  Going to the stadium sucks.  It takes up your whole day.  When I go (which I did once this year), I actually prefer the Monday night games.  I went to the Seattle game and we left LaPlata at 5:15 and were in the parking lot by 6:30 and were able to mill around, relax and take our time getting to our seats.  And traffic wasn't bad going in or out as long as you know where you are going.

 

I prefer my recliner and 42" screen any day.  But that's just me.

[Dan T.]

I don't even know that Marvin Lewis or Mike Tomlin are all that special. I doubt they're visionary coaches like Belichik and Shanahan. But again, I'm not sure you need that kind of coach in charge. I think what you need is a guy that players will play for and ownership and management to back the guy 100% for a span of a decade.

There's something to be said for the Bengals/Steelers approach. I wonder whether - because there's a turnstile at the office door of the head coach at Redskins Park - over time the culture allows players to quit on a coach, or to stop buying in to what the coach is trying to establish. Hell, he'll be gone soon anyway. Let's wait for the new guy. It undermines the ability of a coach to maximize the effort of his roster.

Whereas a Lewis or a Tomlin has the implicit backing of the front office, coupled with the personality that guys want to play for. That's a good combination for long term stability.

[Dan T.]

Yep, the one time I went the place was probably only 80% full at kickoff and half empty midway through third quarter. And that was three years removed from a SB.

Not defending Snyder, just want consistency. If you are going to rip him for not making FedEx more fan friendly, then you should also rip JKC for subjecting his fans to that garbage pile RFK.

You do realize that Jack Kent Cooke was seeking to move out of RFK during that time and ended up building a new stadium. With his own money. Which is exceedingly rare these days. One of the reasons the Redskins franchise is valued so highly is because its stadium is not publicly owned. The team owns it. So let's not be quite so fast to rip Jack Kent Cooke.

[Destino]

Tailgating at a football game is usually more fun than the actual experience inside the stadium. The one exception is if you are lucky enough to be there when the team wins on a exciting final, or near final, last play. There is something magical about the eruption of energy that occurs when a stadium full of people celebrate so enthusiastically at the same time.

[War Paint]

 

Best post you ever made.

 

Those of us who went to RFK in the glory years and in the post Gibbs era realize RFK was a toilet bowl not worthy of a football team.  My last game at RFK I sat under a leaky pipe.  The place was a dump and the Gibbs era was over so the team sucked.  There was no bouncing bleachers, no cheers of we want dallas, no swag or mojo at all.

 

I understand that, but the place provided excellent homefield advantage.  We need a more compact stadium that traps in noise.  There is zero homefield advantage at Fedex.

[Dan T.]

The one exception is if you are lucky enough to be there when the team wins on a exciting final, or near final, last play. There is something magical about the eruption of energy that occurs when a stadium full of people celebrate so enthusiastically at the same time.

That's the sad thing... that experience has been so rare for Redskins fans at FedEx over the last 17 years.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

The stigma of losing will drive a loyal fan insane.

 

I've given us with watching the games with much interest anymore, not because I am tired of the losing but just football in general.  I no longer have a taste for this game like I used to and I blame the loss of Sean Taylor for that one.

 

People really do not understand the way that he impacted the game and how his name alone made the Redskins into a respectable franchinse to reckon with.  Who do we have today that could be honored in the same fashion of Sean Taylor?

 

It certainly isn't RG3 with the way injuries have derailed his career thus far.

 

For those complaining about how lousy of an owner that Snyder is, need to wake up and sip the coffee that Kirby is.  The real reason is we have no voice to lead by example... ala London Flectcher or a DHall type.

 

You want a vision... give me a team that can stay healthy for the majority of the season.

[Going Commando]

Whereas a Lewis or a Tomlin has the implicit backing of the front office, coupled with the personality that guys want to play for. That's a good combination for long term stability.

100% agreed. I think it's THE combination an owner should be trying to establish. Good working relationships and trust take time to truly set in. Our organizational culture is so toxic, nobody ever really trusts anyone here. The players don't really trust the coaches or that either of them will even be there next year. The coaches don't really trust the front office not to abandon them when a season goes south. And the front office probably doesn't trust ownership not to do the same.

We went through a critical offseason this summer. Jay Gruden should have been hired with the explicit understanding that RGIII would be his QB and that they were married to each other. And as an owner, I would have both of them and Bruce Allen understand that I'm giving them and expecting them to be here for the next ten years.

[Boss_Hogg]

Dan Snyder has become too toxic for this organization to be successful. He's a walking PR nightmare and there's no one in this organization to keep him in check. The only man that could tell Dan to sit down and shut up was Joe Gibbs. Bruce Allen is just another yes man, or friend to the Danny.

 

People say that Dan stopped meddling in 2010...well if having Robert Griffin III come over to your house for a Thanksgiving sleep over isn't meddling then I don't know what is. What message does that send to the other 52 guys who are busting their asses for you? This is the same **** that happened before with Arrington and Portis.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Eh...I'm still think the Bengals are kind of a disaster. Just a disaster with talented players now.

 

Lewis has been the coach forever, not because he's been a wild success or has Brown's total trust. He's been coach because Brown will not pay two head coach salaries at the same time.

 

Also, the Bengals are going to drive Hamilton County into bankruptcy based on their stadium deal. Their culture has been cheapness, stealing public funds, and lucking into AJ Green.

Dan Snyder has become too toxic for this organization to be successful. He's a walking PR nightmare and there's no one in this organization to keep him in check. The only man that could tell Dan to sit down and shut up was Joe Gibbs. Bruce Allen is just another yes man, or friend to the Danny.

 

 

I think this idea that Gibbs controlled Snyder is the biggest misconception of the Snyder Era. From what I could tell, Gibbs bought into the Snyder approach more than any other coach or executive. We never had fewer draft picks or more big money free agent signings than during the Gibbs Era. And we are still paying for that in a way as he left the cupboard utterly bare when he left. I think Gibbs absolutely enabled the worst tendencies of Snyder. Because when a legend says the draft is over-rated, free agent talent is what we should go after, and the coaching staff should be as bloated as possible....well....I don't know what an owner "learns" from that.

[chipwhich]

I understand that, but the place provided excellent homefield advantage.  We need a more compact stadium that traps in noise.  There is zero homefield advantage at Fedex.

 

It actually didn't post Gibbs That's the point some people don't get.  There was no home field advantage at RFK when the team sucked.  No bouncing stands, no we want Dallas.  I sat through that 4-12 Petitbon season.  Winning and greatness gives home field advantage.  FedEx never had a chance, how much energy will be devoted to a team that struggles to win 6 games a year.

[Boss_Hogg]

I think this idea that Gibbs controlled Snyder is the biggest misconception of the Snyder Era. From what I could tell, Gibbs bought into the Snyder approach more than any other coach or executive. We never had fewer draft picks or more big money free agent signings than during the Gibbs Era. And we are still paying for that in a way as he left the cupboard utterly bare when he left. I think Gibbs absolutely enabled the worst tendencies of Snyder. Because when a legend says the draft is over-rated, free agent talent is what we should go after, and the coaching staff should be as bloated as possible....well....I don't know what an owner "learns" from that.

 

Then Gibbs deserves a second bust in the HOF if he was able to make the playoffs 2/4 years with Snyder's meddling.

 

Now I hear Glenn Beck is going to be Snyder's guest of honor at the game this weekend: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/10/15/glenn-beck-says-he-loves-redskins-owner-daniel-snyder-will-be-sitting-in-the-owners-box-on-sunday/

 

annnd the clown show continues.

[Going Commando]

You want a vision... give me a team that can stay healthy for the majority of the season.

Injuries happen to everybody. Good organizations don't fall apart and fire everyone and start rebuilding again every time a season turns rocky.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Dan Snyder has become too toxic for this organization to be successful. He's a walking PR nightmare and there's no one in this organization to keep him in check. The only man that could tell Dan to sit down and shut up was Joe Gibbs. Bruce Allen is just another yes man, or friend to the Danny.

 

People say that Dan stopped meddling in 2010...well if having Robert Griffin III come over to your house for a Thanksgiving sleep over isn't meddling then I don't know what is. What message does that send to the other 52 guys who are busting their asses for you? This is the same **** that happened before with Arrington and Portis.

I was unaware of the Thanksgiving "sleepover." Is that sarcasm, or did Griffin actually spend Thanksgiving with Snyder?

 

Now, in 2012, they all spent it together because they played Dallas on Thanksgiving, so they were probably traveling back from Dallas that evening. But did he spend 2013 Thanksgiving with Snyder?  Serious question, I hadn't heard that.

 

As far as Dan being toxic, I think that's kindof crap.  And I don't think that Allen is a yes man.  

 

If Allen was a yes-man, then Haslett would have been fired at the end of the season, Byrd would probably have been a Redskin, and Gruden most likely would not have been the HC.  Those are all Allen moves.

 

I've said this before: I REALLY think Snyder is trying to do the right thing.  I just don't think he knows what that is.  Sure, he wants to make money, and I can't fault him for that. 

 

What he needs to do, but just hasn't grasped yet, is keep Allen as the President, and then have Allen hire a new set of eyes, outside of the organization GM to work for him. He wants to have somebody he trusts, and I get that too.  But Allen by himself is just not a personnel guy, and however talented our personnel guys are, they've been around too long.  Time for a change. 

[Boss_Hogg]

I was unaware of the Thanksgiving "sleepover." Is that sarcasm, or did Griffin actually spend Thanksgiving with Snyder?

 

Now, in 2012, they all spent it together because they played Dallas on Thanksgiving, so they were probably traveling back from Dallas that evening. But did he spend 2013 Thanksgiving with Snyder?  Serious question, I hadn't heard that.

 

As far as Dan being toxic, I think that's kindof crap.  And I don't think that Allen is a yes man.  

 

If Allen was a yes-man, then Haslett would have been fired at the end of the season, Byrd would probably have been a Redskin, and Gruden most likely would not have been the HC.  Those are all Allen moves.

 

I've said this before: I REALLY think Snyder is trying to do the right thing.  I just don't think he knows what that is.  Sure, he wants to make money, and I can't fault him for that. 

 

What he needs to do, but just hasn't grasped yet, is keep Allen as the President, and then have Allen hire a new set of eyes, outside of the organization GM to work for him. He wants to have somebody he trusts, and I get that too.  But Allen by himself is just not a personnel guy, and however talented our personnel guys are, they've been around too long.  Time for a change. 

 

It was thanksgiving 2012, Snyder and Robert stayed in Texas for a few days while the entire team went back to the DMV. That's awkward and sends a bad message to the other 52 guys who fought their guts out for you.

 

I don't think they hung out in 2013, but I could be wrong.

[Destino]

Glen Beck?!

...

****ing Dan Snyder man.