visionary Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Edited March 7, 2017 by visionary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 This is all rather delicious. It's all coming out: 1. The Republicans were being cute for all those years with their 100+ repeal bills. 2. The two things people don't like about Obamacare are the name and the cost. They like everything else. And that's the problem. You can "repeal" it without taking away the stuff people like. 3. Trump is incredibly lazy and had no plan of his own. And he clearly did not read this plan. My guess is that Trump is going to get annoyed, tell the House to stuff it, and he will move onto something else and hope that no one notices that he did not repeal the ACA. The only way out of this trap are either leave it or universal healthcare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, PeterMP said: Are these serious questions? Do you really want to get rid of something that you don't understand? If you have employer based insurance, you don't pay premiums. The employer will take part of your salary to cover the costs of the insurance, but it isn't really a premium. The employer also pays part (realistically, this is part of your compensation though.)). Like all of your compensation, if you lose your job it goes away for the most part. There are ways to extend it employer health insurance for some time if you can pay for it (COBRA plans). I fully admit i am no expert on the subject of health care but nothing you said seemed confusing to me so i think i understand most of it. I guess i didn't portray my opinion of our current system properly when i said it. What i mean is that i feel its very convenient for insurance companies to sell their customers a product that if needed may directly affect their ability to continue to pay for it. Seems like a some sort of a brilliant scam to me and is one of the larger reasons for me wanting a single payer system. The whole purpose of insurance is peace of mind. Knowing that in the event that something catastrophic happens the premiums that you have been paying will make you whole again. In this case the insurance companies have found a way around that. Edited March 7, 2017 by redskinss 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, twa said: What prevents a uninsured from paying the 30% penalty for a few months simply to have a surgery ect and then dropping it? If the republicans are not going to require people to get and keep health insurance, I would rather they drop the preexisting condition coverage. Allowing people to simply pay 130% premium to get coverage is open invitation for gaming the system, the cost of which will be borne by the responsible people who choose to get and keep insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, bearrock said: If the republicans are not going to require people to get and keep health insurance, I would rather they drop the preexisting condition coverage. Allowing people to simply pay 130% premium to get coverage is open invitation for gaming the system, the cost of which will be borne by the responsible people who choose to get and keep insurance. well that only helps on elective procedures, or were you gonna quit providing emergency care ? I'm sure no one would game the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, twa said: well that only helps on elective procedures, or were you gonna quit providing emergency care ? I'm sure no one would game the system Well, unless we get universal coverage or mandate, repealing EMTLA would be logically consistent, but obviously my preference would be universal coverage. Oh if only I had your faith in humankind twa! You eternal optimist you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I apologize if this has been mentioned, I haven't seen discussion about it... This comes from a few conversations I've had with people in the Healthcare industry (not insurance, care.) One of the GOP talking points being pushed, which is getting mentioned by their surrogates but not expounded on, that I think poses a serious threat... but doesn't get talked about because it's not sexy like "x million will lose coverage" or "pick your doctor pick your plan" (which is itself laughable because it means you don't understand ACA) or "x million saved"... The "remove restrictions around creating new Healthcare facilities" I don't know if this is everywhere, but it is how it works here, a health facility (I'm not sure what exactly qualifies but I know hospitals and mental facilities qualify) are required to be certified by the state to be constructed and opened. Part of the certification is the assess "need" for the particular facility in said area. There are lots of reason for that, but what the GOP is pushing as "market competition" to lower prices could very well result in essentially segregation by class. People will more money will go to certain facilities, and health care professions who want to make more money will go there, and those with less will be forced to go to places staffed by people making less. It will take time for this to happen, but the end-state is poor people have lesser facilities, with lesser equipment, with lesser staff (not just in ability, but in availability as well.) Quality of care for these people will decrease, access to care will decrease (in terms of wait times) and we'll have yet another institution that provides drastically different options based solely on how much money you have. Yes, we have an element of that now because many people can't fly across the country to meet with one of the leading cancer specialists in the world, but that's significantly different than people who live on one side of $diverse_town having tons of clean, readily available facilities with the latest tech and tons of staff and the other side of said down being dilapidated with aging tech and unable to staff because they can't even attrack employees. Thats on the extreme end of the concern, but it seems like a real concern for a few people I've talked to and they work at a nice place that wouldn't have this problem. Just something to think about when you hear that bullet point from the GOP talking points circulating around get dropped on your favorite news show. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Can we get the title of this thread updated to include the GOP Health Care Plan. Also.....if their plan was a person....who was covered under their plan......and that person came down with a potentially fatal condition yesterday.......would that person survive the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 good graphical comparison btw Republican proprosal and ACA (Obamcare) The only thing I think it missed was the reference to the tax breaks for insurance executives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 9 hours ago, tshile said: There are lots of reason for that, but what the GOP is pushing as "market competition" to lower prices could very well result in essentially segregation by class. People will more money will go to certain facilities, and health care professions who want to make more money will go there, and those with less will be forced to go to places staffed by people making less. It will take time for this to happen, but the end-state is poor people have lesser facilities, with lesser equipment, with lesser staff (not just in ability, but in availability as well.) Quality of care for these people will decrease, access to care will decrease (in terms of wait times) and we'll have yet another institution that provides drastically different options based solely on how much money you have. There you go again, failing to march in lockstep with all the sloganeering and hoopla and getting lost in the weeds I sure seems like you are absolutely correct, and IMO this is exactly the intent. Whether you have a heart attack or your kid drinks poison or you slice fingers off with a chainsaw, whether or not you receive medical attention, or even get in the door, will be determined by your ability to pay. That's what they mean by "access", we will treat anyone regardless of race, creed or color ('cept mebbe those scary Mooselambs) as long as they come with the green. See? Access, any and everything is accessible if you can pay the cover charge. The flip side of this is that you will have people denied medical care, denied even emergency care to save their lives based on the current price of that commodity. You will have corpses in the parking lot of the hospital. You will have people not even trying to get in because no matter what the politicians say, the message will be received loud n clear, "you can't afford this". And spineless reps of every inclination will use it for their own selfish political ends, they will attend funerals (if the media covers them) and clutch their pearls, gnash their teeth and blame the other side, and then walk away and it will be as if they never arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Ahhh, good times........ The dims are fighting about the ACA and it is already must see cartoon TV. A secret proposal written, hurriedly even after years of "planning", large groups opposing it and they're all Rs, the Dems have been shoved aside and told to STFU, some Rs understand that taking insurance away from millions and jacking rates on older Americans is gonna get them tossed in the midterms, Rand Paul and his loopies piss n moan because it doesn't take insurance away from enough people, people are already calling them both out on the difference between "access" and actual coverage, yadda yadda yadda....................... God bless America 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I'm a little shocked that a Republican from Missouri would make such a callous comment about drug overdoses, given that the Opioid crisis is destroying poor rural white communities right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I put a lot of this on Paul Ryan. He is nothing more than Sarah Palin in a suit. He's definitely not the deep thinking people on the right like to claim he is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Paul Ryan is evil incarnate IMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, clietas said: Paul Ryan is evil incarnate IMO... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, clietas said: Paul Ryan is evil incarnate IMO... Paul Ryan is John Edwards incarnate. Edited March 8, 2017 by mcsluggo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 13 hours ago, tshile said: Just something to think about when you hear that bullet point from the GOP talking points circulating around get dropped on your favorite news show. I can see this. After I got sick with appendicitis, I decided not to go to the hospital here in Portsmouth. I've already been there once, its a dump, and nothing compared to the one in Va Beach that I went to instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 On 3/7/2017 at 10:59 AM, Riggo-toni said: If all plans were required to use the very same universal forms for referrals, reimbursements, etc. you don't think think that would reduce the burden for Drs? Interesting note on this: Over the summer, I was at a conference where various health professionals from doctors to med students to patients to healthcare systems administrators came together in an attempt to imagine ways healthcare could be improved. On the first morning, I was off hiking with one of the founders of consumer reports and a few doctors, and I told them I thought the ACA had missed a huge opportunity to create a standard medical record and billing system. I was told at that point there are 4 systems currently in popular usage in the U.S. Of those four, three of them can read records from all but the one outlier. Think of Word being able to read a document from word perfect. We are closer to a standard medical record than I appreciated from outside the system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, mcsluggo said: Paul Ryan is John Edwards incarnate. Both are steaming piles of elephant dung. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 6 hours ago, LD0506 said: There you go again, failing to march in lockstep with all the sloganeering and hoopla and getting lost in the weeds it's just boring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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