Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[Kosher Ham]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

Right.  If we'd just stop giving food to people who can't afford to buy it, then they wouldn't choose to be poor.  

 

 

You are responding to a man who at one point...had both parents working 2 jobs. 

2 jobs each to provide for the family and live our lifestyle. 

I feel no pity in that sense. Work your butt off to get the things you need, the things you want, put food on the table, clothes on your back, a roof over your head, etc. 

 

Now, my parents are quite comfortable and my brother and sisters never had to go through those hard times because my parents had drive, initiative, and the guts to go for it. We ALL went to college, we all are successful in our lives. 

Thanks Mom and Dad. You taught and raised us to hold ourselves accountable for our decisions and tough it out when we made bad choices. 

 

The abuse of food stamps and such is mind blowing. Try paying attention when you hit up the grocery store next time. Then come at me with some real ****. 

[Hersh]

2 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

oh, man been a while since i have read any of this thread. 

 

Taxes are fine...paying for other folks to have children and they get my tax money...not fine. Paying for them to eat...not fine. 

I certainly give my fair share. I refuse to ENABLE. That is what we are going through right now. 

 

Stop encouraging by all of these programs to help the less fortunate and Start to encourage and educate. 

That is where the money should be spent. Single mother's and dead beat dad's would be a rarity instead of the expectation.

 

Those with mental issues or drug problems...well...I am not going to go there now. 

I have no idea if this is a serious post or not so let me ask: Are you an advocate of raising the minimum wage? You buy American made goods? How about working to make higher education more affordable? Just wondering if you do anything meaningful besides paint with a broad brush. 

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Personal anecdotes and grandstanding will make America great again.

[Hersh]

10 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

You are responding to a man who at one point...had both parents working 2 jobs. 

2 jobs each to provide for the family and live our lifestyle. 

I feel no pity in that sense. Work your butt off to get the things you need, the things you want, put food on the table, clothes on your back, a roof over your head, etc. 

 

Now, my parents are quite comfortable and my brother and sisters never had to go through those hard times because my parents had drive, initiative, and the guts to go for it. We ALL went to college, we all are successful in our lives. 

Thanks Mom and Dad. You taught and raised us to hold ourselves accountable for our decisions and tough it out when we made bad choices. 

 

The abuse of food stamps and such is mind blowing. Try paying attention when you hit up the grocery store next time. Then come at me with some real ****. 

Have wages kept up with inflation since your parents worked two jobs? How about the cost of college? How's that for real ****.

[Larry]

20 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

The abuse of food stamps and such is mind blowing. Try paying attention when you hit up the grocery store next time. Then come at me with some real ****. 

 

Try backing up your own claims with some real ****. 

 

Come at me with the real **** about food stamp abuse, and your plan for how to stop it. 

[Kosher Ham]

7 minutes ago, Hersh said:

I have no idea if this is a serious post or not so let me ask: Are you an advocate of raising the minimum wage? You buy American made goods? How about working to make higher education more affordable? Just wondering if you do anything meaningful besides paint with a broad brush. 

 

 

 

Yes and no regarding pay. I feel that raising it will not help most folks that get the slight raise. Education should be affordable to all people...all. 

I used to be an artist in my own right...I have all the brushes available. If American products are inferior why would I buy them ? I hope by American you don't mean WalMart and such. 

 

6 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Have wages kept up with inflation since your parents worked two jobs? How about the cost of college? How's that for real ****.

 

Wages have not. Yet as old as I may be...my baby sister is in grad school right now. BECAUSE my parents busted their butts to get papered up...education was not an option for us. It was part of growing up. Sure I am fortunate. My advocacy if for anything would be to make sure that we are the most educated country in the world with the most opportunities. 

Just now, Larry said:

 

Try backing up your own claims with some real ****. 

 

Come at me with the real **** about food stamp abuse, and your plan for how to stop it. 

 

That's easy. Eliminate them. 

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

That's easy. Eliminate them. 

 

Thank you for pointing out that I correctly summarized your position. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Is there any member of this family that doesn't have direct relevance to the all-important goal of taxing Kosher as little as possible?  What a magical group of people.

[Kosher Ham]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

Thank you for pointing out that I correctly summarized your position. 

 

I didn't mince words. No reason to point out something that was stated very clearly. 

 

Actually, next time come correct. 

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Is there any member of this family that doesn't have direct relevance to the all-important goal of taxing Kosher as little as possible?  What a magical group of people.

 

If you only knew what I pay in taxes. ha. 

What is with you folks ? I pay plenty. 

I hate the amount that as a country we waste on certain things. Military budget is ...I don't even want to get into it. 

EDUCATE is my premise, if you and Larry, and others would get on board with this...

 

BTW... Larry, that was what I stated earlier.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

There is a lot of abuse of the system.

 

There have got to be ways to curb that without hurting the people who need help and aren't abusing the system.

[skinny21]

Is this another case of "It's not perfect, so let's eliminate it?" 

 

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/30/fox-news-apologizes-for-getting-a-report-on-food-stamp-fraud-so-very-very-wrong/

 

 

[Kosher Ham]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

There is a lot of abuse of the system.

 

There have got to be ways to curb that without hurting the people who need help and aren't abusing the system.

 

I agree. Problem is someone always finds a loophole and tells folks about it. 

Then the abuse runs rampant. 

[skinny21]

8 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

There is a lot of abuse of the system.

 

There have got to be ways to curb that without hurting the people who need help and aren't abusing the system.

I believe there are (for any program), but that often entails new regulations... and/or more staff to enforce the regs.

 

@Kosher Ham - but that's with anything, right?  I doubt you'd argue that their should be no taxes, environmental regulations, etc., etc. because loopholes exist?  Comprehensive reform actually works quite well (not slashing the regs or the programs), but often times, political interests get in the way (my sense is this is more often true of the GOP).

Edited March 6, 2017 by skinny21

[TradeTheBeal!]

In my experience, folks that like to blather on about their "taxes" as a way to justify political extremism are just being intellectually lazy.  

 

All the people in my family feel this way too.

[PeterMP]

Let's take the argument to the extreme.  We should allow children to go malnourished because the parents are "lazy"?

[Kosher Ham]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Let's take the argument to the extreme.  We should allow children to go malnourished because the parents are "lazy"?

 

haha. Now we are getting EXTREME. 

 

No, take the kids. 

[PeterMP]

Just now, Kosher Ham said:

 

haha. Now we are getting EXTREME. 

 

No, take the kids. 

 

And what is the cost of that?  (social and economical?)

Edited March 6, 2017 by PeterMP

[skinny21]

My overall issue with conservatism, at least in terms of social programs and the environment, is that as society has changed, it can't keep up.  

Companies have valued workers less and less

Decent jobs have left the US due to globalization/automation

Metropolitan areas have grown and become more gentrified and pulled the college educated from small town America...

 

the income gap has grown exponentially, support systems (churches/neighbors, etc) have eroded and now a huge swath of the population desperately needs these social welfare programs.  Unfortunately, conservatives keep coming back to the "bootstraps" adage, believe the poor are lazy, or that any abuse of any of these programs completely nullifies any value they provide.

 

 

Just to add, for perspective's sake - the average tax rate (workers earning less than 200k) is 10%.  Welfare programs are around 1/4 of the budget.  So approximately 2.5 cents of every dollar you make goes to helping the unfortunate/hungry/etc.

Edited March 6, 2017 by skinny21

[gbear]

You want to talk expensive?  "Take the kids"...as a foster parent, I can assure you the state dollars won't go nearly as far if we have to find homes for all the kids.  Of course, that assumes we could find homes for them.  We don't have enough homes for the ones in the systems now.

Edited March 6, 2017 by gbear

[bearrock]

53 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

You are responding to a man who at one point...had both parents working 2 jobs. 

2 jobs each to provide for the family and live our lifestyle. 

I feel no pity in that sense. Work your butt off to get the things you need, the things you want, put food on the table, clothes on your back, a roof over your head, etc. 

So if your parents got sick, laid off during bad economy where a replacement job isn't so available, got divorced, died, any number of life can go so wrong scenario, should they just hold themselves accountable and work through it?  

 

For crying out loud, no one is pro welfare abuse.  But how is cancel the program a preferable solution to fix the loopholes?

4 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

haha. Now we are getting EXTREME. 

 

No, take the kids. 

OMG.  Yeah, foster care doesn't cost money for the gov't   

 

Dad died. Mom got sick and can't work full time.  So the choice is either live in extreme poverty or take the kids.  Bang up proposal for a government there.  Why not just bring back child labor?  

[Larry]

Pointing out that this is the Obamacare thread. 

 

 

[Kosher Ham]

36 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

And what is the cost of that?  (social and economical?)

 

Again, a program for folks. So many folks can not have children that want them. I will bold this if you would like... Don't have children if you can't afford them. Don't have kids if you don't want them, don't have kids and treat them as pets, but (here is the bold part) DON'T have kids if you can't handle your own responsibilities as they are.

34 minutes ago, gbear said:

You want to talk expensive?  "Take the kids"...as a foster parent, I can assure you the state dollars won't go nearly as far if we have to find homes for all the kids.  Of course, that assumes we could find homes for them.  We don't have enough homes for the ones in the systems now.

 

Again a handout. That's bull****.  Don't take on a responsibility that you can't handle. Many...and I do mean many do it for the wrong reasons. They do not care about the kids...they care about the check.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Kosher Ham

[gbear]

As a foster parent/adoptive parent, let me point out foster care, Medicaid and the ACA (A.K.A. Obamacare) are linked. 

 

This is even more true when we talk about medically fragile children.  FWIW, these are the kids with pre-existing conditions who used to run headlong into the troubles getting private healthcare to cover their conditions.  Then if they were lucky enough to get coverage, they had to worry about life time spending caps. 

 

Even with these big ticket items, I suppose there will always be somebody complaining about food stamps.  As an aside to bring it back around to the post saying to take the kids rather than let them starve without food stamps, this isn't as far fetched a worry as many of us privileged schmoes  would think.  NPR had a peace last year about Native American children taken from their parents for "neglect."  It turns out, many were taken simply because the Indians on the reservations were poor, and the state got federal funds to "treat" the kids equal to the funds granted for the care of medically fragile children.  So the "If they can't feed the children then we will take them" approach has been (and maybe still is being) used to explain some of our less savory treatment of the poor. Knowing some of the outlays for the foster care of medically fragile children, we can supply a lot of food stamps for far far les cost. 

[bearrock]

4 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

Again a handout. That's bull****.  Don't take on a responsibility that you can't handle. Many...and I do mean many do it for the wrong reasons. They do not care about the kids...they care about the check.

 

What percentage of those on food stamp do you think had kids for the checks?  How does "many do it for the wrong reasons" justify taking it away from everyone?  In my line of work, I come across many families who fall on hard times and couldn't make it work without social safety nets like medicaid and food stamp.  The fact that you are arguing for taking away these social safety nets from everyone because there are fixable abuses is astonishing.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Kosher Ham said:

I agree. Problem is someone always finds a loophole and tells folks about it. 

Then the abuse runs rampant. 

Then you shut down that loophole as well. Same as we should do for wealthy people who abuse the system. And middle class people who abuse the system. A certain percentage of the population (100) is made up of human beings and a certain percentage of them, no matter what the income bracket, are going to do crooked **** if they can get away with it.

 

You can't just say, "**** it, this guy ruined it for all of you!" though. Are you going to shut down every non-profit because some of them take advantage of the law? No business deductions whatsoever on taxes?

Edited March 6, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff