2024 Rookie camp/OTA/Training camp thread.

[TheShredder]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

There is a ton of optimism in here. And I get it. But please look at the workouts with open eyes. Daniels struggled some in the red zone. Which should be expected. He has yet to face a real NFL defense. And he WILL throw picks. Probably a ton of them. This year is about his growth. And the growth of the players around him. I just hope he makes it through half of the games. We will see. 

So you're afraid he's going to get injured? 

It's football,,,but JD is quick and instinctive. He's aware that his NFL game needs to be different than his college game. I think he's a smart player and will be coached at a high level and taking unnecessary hits is top priority. Maybe were having some RGIII PTSD as a fan base. 

I don't view INTs as a concern. 

As for INTs, there's no indication of accuracy issues. He's been throwing the ball away when plays breakdown. They're likely coaching him to do so. 

I get what you're pointing at, though I don't view the speed of the game to be an obstacle as his VR reps are at NFL Speed and he'll get live reps. 

 

 

10 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I have always been impressed with Armani Rogers. I like his speed, quickness, and athleticism. Still recall us giving him an end around or two. And he did very well on those plays also.

I liked him too but he blew out his knee. First year back and they've got a few TE talents now. Maybe he goes to the PS. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

There is a ton of optimism in here. And I get it. But please look at the workouts with open eyes. Daniels struggled some in the red zone. Which should be expected. He has yet to face a real NFL defense. And he WILL throw picks. Probably a ton of them. This year is about his growth. And the growth of the players around him. I just hope he makes it through half of the games. We will see. 

 

You always got some wildcard of course with any rookie QB.  As to red zone struggles, it tends to happen in camp.  Defense is ahead of the offense because the offense is running by rote different routes again and again and again to get them down.   So the defense sees the same stuff again and again and again.  And especially in the red zone its much easier for defenses to clamp down on the offense when they are likely running the same 5 play give or take over and over againin condensed space.

 

When I've been in camp, the defense tends to look better than the offense.  As we were talking about last year during camp, we kept hearing how insane the defense was and how lock down they were often against the offense.   Then the real bullets flew and we found out the defense sucked.  But in general especially as camp goes deeper, the defense tends to feast off of seeing the same plays again and again and again.

Edited June 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Rex Tomb]

6 hours ago, TheShredder said:

VR reps are at NFL Speed and he'll get live reps. 

Interesting, I know he used that LSU.  Is he using it in the NFL, too?

[skinny21]

8 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Interesting, I know he used that LSU.  Is he using it in the NFL, too?

It was reported just after the draft that Washington had ordered it.  I don’t think we’ve heard anything further though, which I’d guess means it’s in progress? 🤷‍♂️

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

There is a ton of optimism in here. And I get it. But please look at the workouts with open eyes. Daniels struggled some in the red zone. Which should be expected. He has yet to face a real NFL defense. And he WILL throw picks. Probably a ton of them. This year is about his growth. And the growth of the players around him. I just hope he makes it through half of the games. We will see. 

Speaking for myself, my optimism isn’t really based around glowing practice performances.  It’s a lot more about the position we sit as a franchise, along with the mental makeup and intangibles of Daniels.  I don’t think anyone is under the impression that he won’t have his struggles.  It’s just that when he does, everything we are seeing and hearing about him indicates he won’t crumble.  

[moondog]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

It was reported just after the draft that Washington had ordered it.  I don’t think we’ve heard anything further though, which I’d guess means it’s in progress? 🤷‍♂️

It’s a quality product that the company is not mass producing or agreeing to work with anyone. They accepted the commanders offer because of JD. The system itself is simple - the more “progress” part is the company creating and uploading our team’s offense, opponent’s defense, stadium and practice field details, etc. The coaches will have to be heavily involved, giving the company their playbook and opponent’s film/defensive playbook. I’m not sure they’re at that point yet with the install but perhaps they are sending off what they’ve installed incrementally so he can rep it. 
 

The stadium or practice field needs to be created because he wears the headset but runs the plays live on an actual field and it represents exactly where he is at on the field so he’s not running physically off the field/into the parking lot for example. 
 

@TheShredder Armani tore his Achilles, not anything with his knee. Supposedly he looks back to his athletic self, it’s been almost a year since he tore it but I know that can be a 12-14 month process if not longer for pro athletes, especially ones that need to cut and change direction without ahahuasca lol

Edited June 7 by moondog

[zCommander]

12 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

There is a ton of optimism in here. And I get it. But please look at the workouts with open eyes. Daniels struggled some in the red zone. Which should be expected. He has yet to face a real NFL defense. And he WILL throw picks. Probably a ton of them. This year is about his growth. And the growth of the players around him. I just hope he makes it through half of the games. We will see. 

 

The years past has made this year more optimistic for some and even if he struggles it is okay. New everything.  

I don't follow the OTAs, training camp, etc as closely as some like to do. To me what matters is when the season starts and there is accountability with a W or a L. How JD and the whole team does come game day is way more important then 'oh my gosh he threw an INT in practice' lol 

 

As for facing a real defense. Do you think our D is just chopped livers? 🤪

[moondog]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

As for facing a real defense. Do you think our D is just chopped livers? 🤪

Last year? Absolutely. This year? I expect a top half of the league defense in about every metric at an absolute minimum. I think it’s realistic to be in the top 10-12 due to actual NFL coaches - an excellent scheme, coaches that actually coach, players that buy in and work to play as a whole unit and of course every level of our defense has gotten drastically better talent-wise with maybe the exception of CB which is a concern but I expect player improvement due to the reasons above so I am expecting average corner play at the least. 

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, moondog said:

Last year? Absolutely. This year? I expect a top half of the league defense in about every metric at an absolute minimum. I think it’s realistic to be in the top 10-12 due to actual NFL coaches - an excellent scheme, coaches that actually coach, players that buy in and work to play as a whole unit and of course every level of our defense has gotten drastically better talent-wise with maybe the exception of CB which is a concern but I expect player improvement due to the reasons above so I am expecting average corner play at the least. 

 

Last year it was trash. Wasn't supposed to be since they were top 5 the year before. Del Rio just didn't care since he knew it was his last year. I was talking about this year and JD going against a real D since the comment was about JD not going against a real D. Even though it is in practice but it is still a NFL level defense. This year it should or will be a real D, the one that we are all hoping it will be, with Joe Witt at the helm. 

[clskinsfan]

43 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Do you think our D is just chopped livers?

Pretty much yeah. And our defense isnt going to tee off on Daniels like any other NFL defense he will face. I am really excited to see what he does in our practices against the Jets. That is a solid defense they have up there. 

[RVAskins]

I think we're going to see a lot more packages and substitutions to keep guys fresh. Whitt is going to be a lot more creative than JDR. I like what I've been reading so far.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, moondog said:

Last year? Absolutely. This year? I expect a top half of the league defense in about every metric at an absolute minimum. I think it’s realistic to be in the top 10-12 due to actual NFL coaches - an excellent scheme, coaches that actually coach, players that buy in and work to play as a whole unit and of course every level of our defense has gotten drastically better talent-wise with maybe the exception of CB which is a concern but I expect player improvement due to the reasons above so I am expecting average corner play at the least. 

Top ten is optimistic IMO. I think we will be improved, let’s be honest only way is up.

 

I 100% agree better coaching is a huge plus. We were abysmal last season in terms of coaching and especially defensive coaching. That alone will be huge.

 

But I worry about our pass rush and outside corners. Pressure will need to be schemed and require more aggressive play calling. I worry about our ability to get to the QB and cover

 

I would see league average as a good step forward. 

[Koolblue13]

41 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

 

I would see league average as a good step forward. 

With the coaching and players that we've put on our team, league average is the floor and if we're ranked around 16/17 it'll be disappointing.

[PlayAction]

53 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

I think we're going to see a lot more packages and substitutions to keep guys fresh. Whitt is going to be a lot more creative than JDR. I like what I've been reading so far.

 

It will be interesting to see how Whitt adjusts the defense to deal with the inevitable up-tempo offenses.  But, yes, I'm eager to see how all of the pieces fit together in different packages and schemes.  

[Warhead36]

I can't see a top 10 defense because of our lack of X factor pass rusher or legitimate #1 CB. I do think we'll be around 15th ish and will show some flashes, and our LB play will be GREATLY improved. But against QBs that kill blitzes we will be screwed.

[757SeanTaylor21]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

It will be interesting to see how Whitt adjusts the defense to deal with the inevitable up-tempo offenses.  But, yes, I'm eager to see how all of the pieces fit together in different packages and schemes.  

Apparently our offense will run a lot of up tempo or no huddle so they'll get good practice against our off in camp etc

[RandyHolt]

7 hours ago, RVAskins said:

I think we're going to see a lot more packages and substitutions to keep guys fresh. Whitt is going to be a lot more creative than JDR. I like what I've been reading so far.

Ima die on the hill that your starters are your best players and subbing them out for inferior players isn't going to pay dividends as much as the leagues DCs think.

 

DCs are pushing all in that their best players aren't in good enough shape to survive 10 minutes of actual game action spread over 3 hours.

 

Those well rested inferior backups? Ice cold and more likely to make mistakes not getting first team reps facing an OC ready to make adjustments. Many of those players wont even be on the team next year. Advanced stats have to show the subbed in guys on D are grading just as high as the starter. I bet they aren't and never do, and never will. If they were that good they'd be starters.

 

I will never think Mathis is better than Allen no matter how gassed fans think he is.

Edited June 8 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

Digesting 2 Keim podcasts back to back.

 

Jayden has looked good, accurate, comfortable, patient, poinsed, not overmatched, doesn't miss much and when he does its not much, teammates respond well to him.  Has looked good on crossing routes.  At facility early studying.

 

They are practicing scramble drills -- players adjusting to a play when the QB scrambles

 

Ertz making some nice plays, also showing leadership

 

They love Luvu, tone setter, coaches smile when talking about him

 

Magee has looked good, coaches have praised him said he doesn't look like a rookie, not making mistakes

 

Keim seems high on Quan Martin

 

Ekeler has looked spry in practices

 

Feel good vibes in camp seem to be stems from Jayden Daniels and the love for the current coaching staff from the players.  Guys are hanging around the locker room after practice, which wasn't always the case previously

Edited June 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

With the coaching and players that we've put on our team, league average is the floor and if we're ranked around 16/17 it'll be disappointing.

I THINK I would take 15 right now (not just a bull**** #15 based on total yardage but a DVOA #15). Its year of one of a big rebuild - I think we need to add a real quality pass rusher and true #1 corner to get into the top 10 range.

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Guys are hanging around the locker room after practice, which wasn't always the case previously

 

Thats a huge thing and great sign. One of the best part of sports was the dressing room/locker room banter and just 'being with the guys'. If people cant wait to get out after games and practice its speaks volumes, if people get in early and stay late just to hang around its a great sign of a team knitting together.

[TurningTheCorner]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Digesting 2 Keim podcasts back to back.

 

Jayden has looked good, accurate, comfortable, patient, poinsed, not overmatched, doesn't miss much and when he does its not much, teammates respond well to him.  Has looked good on crossing routes.  At facility early studying.

I want to be encouraged by this but sadly I’ve been told that he could trip over his shoelaces and be skipping balls mcnabb style and none of it would matter one iota because it’s June. Shoot!

 

[757SeanTaylor21]

Knowing we lack that true dominant rusher is what propelled me wanting burns first or hunter if burns went elsewhere. We got neither and though we got some rotating pieces, if we wanted to play coverage and rush 4...our best rushers on the team are all dts, including Newton who I believe has the potential to be top 5 dt by his 3rd year. But who is gonna come off the edge from flushing the qb from pocket? Maybe luvu? Maybe Jamin? Idk. Maybe fowler? We shall see But I hope the dc got some answers cause I've seen us play defense where we was able to get middle pressure and all the qb had to do was go to the edge and dice us up running or passing

[skinny21]

29 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Knowing we lack that true dominant rusher is what propelled me wanting burns first or hunter if burns went elsewhere. We got neither and though we got some rotating pieces, if we wanted to play coverage and rush 4...our best rushers on the team are all dts, including Newton who I believe has the potential to be top 5 dt by his 3rd year. But who is gonna come off the edge from flushing the qb from pocket? Maybe luvu? Maybe Jamin? Idk. Maybe fowler? We shall see But I hope the dc got some answers cause I've seen us play defense where we was able to get middle pressure and all the qb had to do was go to the edge and dice us up running or passing

Although related, I think you’re sort of talking about two separate things.  We lack a high end pass rushing end (or 2).  There’s no one that needs to be double teamed or that can win quickly with any consistency.  And of course, that plays into our questionable outside corners.

 

The second issue is who can play cleanup when our DTs flush the qb?  Who can set the edge to not allow the qb to scramble/run?  I don’t exactly have the answer to this, though Ferrell is reported be be very good at setting the edge, and Armstrong seems to produce as a cleanup type DE.  And of course our backers could potentially be leaned on to trigger downhill when the qb leaves the pocket.  

 

I’m concerned about the first point, but somewhat optimistic about the second.  We’ll see how it plays out.

[Going Commando]

It'll be edge rush by committee.  I think the Ravens led the league in sacks last season via a scheme using similar personnel to what we've got this year.  They played a kind of hybrid front where Madubuike was their man source of pressure, rushing from a 4/5 technique alignment. Then they rotated Pierce and Travis Jones inside, and rotated a bunch of journeymen type edges on the outside to bring supplemental pressure.  Jadeveon Clowney is a high quality journeyman at this point in his career, and Kyle Van Noy and Odafe Oweh are clean up guys who feast on the pressure that the interior guys generate.  I don't see why Armstrong, Ferrell, and Fowler can't replicate that kind of secondary/tertiary pressure in a rotation for us.  Allen is a great player, and Payne is really good too, and this year we will hopefully have high end guys to rotate with them between Newton and Mathis.  Not to mention linebacker blitzes are going to be a real weapon for us.  Our LBer room got massively upgraded and is on par with Baltimore's now.

 

The secondary should also take a huge leap forward.  Developing DBs and matching coverage to pressure is the biggest area of expertise of our coaching staff.  Guys who struggled under the old regime like Forbes, Butler, and St Juste have a lot better chance of meeting their potential now, and Sainristil and Martin have really high level potential.

 

Unless we are crushed by injuries, I'd be shocked if we aren't one of the best defenses in the league next year.  This is the part of the team they almost completely fixed this off-season IMO.  There is still certainly room for improvement, but I don't think they're a paper tiger any more.  Defenses with beast interior linemen and hall of fame linebackers in the middle are almost always very good.

[tmandoug1]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Digesting 2 Keim podcasts back to back.

 

Jayden has looked good, accurate, comfortable, patient, poinsed, not overmatched, doesn't miss much and when he does its not much, teammates respond well to him.  Has looked good on crossing routes.  At facility early studying.

 

They are practicing scramble drills -- players adjusting to a play when the QB scrambles

 

Ertz making some nice plays, also showing leadership

 

They love Luvu, tone setter, coaches smile when talking about him

 

Magee has looked good, coaches have praised him said he doesn't look like a rookie, not making mistakes

 

Keim seems high on Quan Martin

 

Ekeler has looked spry in practices

 

Feel good vibes in camp seem to be stems from Jayden Daniels and the love for the current coaching staff from the players.  Guys are hanging around the locker room after practice, which wasn't always the case previously

At facility early studying.

 

This to me this is the most important part of the entire  process. If he continues this through out his career he will be elite. So nice to not have someone more concerned about brand than the game itself.

May have to throw down some money on my first jersey since Portis. End of season decision of course.

 

Stay healthy my friend!