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Game Day Thread - The Commanders vs. The Dolphins ~ The One Where One Is Drowning

zCommander

By zCommander
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ntotoro

ntotoro

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21 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Damn. Philly just got crushed at the Linc. We knew they were overrated. But I didnt realize they were that vanilla. 


You can score on Philly and their Secondary is relatively weak. They've won a bunch of close games that could have gone either way. The 49ers are probably the best all-around team they've played and we see how that has worked.

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zCommander

zCommander

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23 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Damn. Philly just got crushed at the Linc. We knew they were overrated. But I didnt realize they were that vanilla. 

 

Yes we did. We lost to them by a score of 3 and 5. We could have still won both of those two games if our D had put in only extra 10% effort. 

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

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35 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

That is exactly why I would be hesitant to draft a QB when we have so many needs. Unless the QB is a consensus top QB it's always a crap shoot. I have seen enough in Howell to think he can be a franchise QB with a quality offensive line. When he has time to set and throw, he does very well. The problem is that he doesn't have enough time for that.

I would hate for us to draft a Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields or Mac Jones and waste the pick when we desperately need to upgrade the offensive line, LB, Edge.

The Portland Trail Blazers once drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they needed a center. Point is, if we're picking at 4 and there's a generational player there you take him regardless of position, including if it's an offensive lineman. Our new GM is gonna have all kinds of directions he can go in with our pick(s).....Free agency will be huge for us. 

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The Consigliere

The Consigliere

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3 hours ago, Fred Jones said:

We absolutely need to lose to the Jets to ensure a better draft pick.  Maybe AR will be back and torch our D.

We could totally still win that, and then Cowboy game. The niners beating the Eagles today was huge. If the Cowboys can beat them next weekend, that will then likely provide value in the game for the Cowboys. Not sure who would have the tiebreaker if they split head to head, is it NFC record, divisional record? Not sure. It's been so long since it was relevant to us lol.

 

The one piece of good news is that the Niners win means they have something to play for when they play us, and the Rams smashing the Browns today made them 6-6, and totally in the thick of it for seed 6 or 7 for the playoffs (which is STUNNING) which means they will be going all out when we travel to LA, and I imagine w/that defense, they definitely win. So that's the good news, to me anyway, I definitely see 2 more lock losses, putting us at 10 or 11, with the Cowboys/Niners game potentially having value, that could likely put us in a scenario where we end up somewhere between 4-13 and 6-11. It all rides on how the cowboys play, whether they have something to play for. The Jets game? Lets be straight. That offense is so dire they will need to win the game with turnovers and a defensive performance for the ages. Maybe they do it, but it could even be a tie lol, 0-0. 

 

The good news for us more than anything is that our result, combined with others means its damn near impossible to believe that our worst case pick scenarios, the ones that played out generally the past 3 seasons, are likely to play out right now. Instead, we've locked a top 10 pick, pretty much, and most likely, a 4th-8th pick. So we're gonna be in line for an OT, Brock Bowers, maybe a QB, the edge none of us want us to take, outside shot at Harrison Jr. It's happening. FO out on their ---, coach donezo, and good draft picks our picks are likely to be around 5, inside the top 40 and inside the top 70 through the first 3 rounds, plus an extra early 2nd, and a late 3rd and an early 4th, giving us 6 top 105ish. 

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Daniel.redskins

Daniel.redskins

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1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

The Portland Trail Blazers once drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they needed a center. Point is, if we're picking at 4 and there's a generational player there you take him regardless of position, including if it's an offensive lineman. Our new GM is gonna have all kinds of directions he can go in with our pick(s).....Free agency will be huge for us. 

I agree in theory, but the oline is so bad we really don't have a choice. If we draft a "generational" QB and he struggles, I'm going to lose it if the fans blame the oline. Franchise tackles don't come in free agency.  At some point, you just have to bite the bullet and draft a top tackle. It's not a glamorous pick, it doesn't sell jerseys. But this is the year.  

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

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1 minute ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I agree in theory, but the oline is so bad we really don't have a choice. If we draft a "generational" QB and he struggles, I'm going to lose it if the fans blame the oline. Franchise tackles don't come in free agency.  At some point, you just have to bite the bullet and draft a top tackle. It's not a glamorous pick, it doesn't sell jerseys. But this is the year.  

I agree with you except with our 1st round pick. Given that we have two 2nds and 3rds we could possibly draft a top QB or WR and still add to the offensive line. We have to get the most impactful player we can get in the 1st round...maybe it will be the o-lineman? I like Sam, especially if he gets more talent around him but one of these young kids coming out might just be a better prospect than Sam is. 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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2 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

If I'm a new GM, I look at the entire thing as a blank slate. Total rebuild. With that in mind, I'm BPA all day, even if that's WR or QB. Drafting for need generates a roster of mediocre talent.

Agreed. If you love a QB and the entire organization is on board go get him. 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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Just now, Warhead36 said:

Agreed. If you love a QB and the entire organization is on board go get him. 

They absolutely have to find a way to get 3-4 new OL possible starters before the draft.  Otherwise they’re going to get stuck having to pick OL because they won’t have any option. 
 

I would assume the following players are nit in the plans:

- Leno

- Charles

- Paul

- Wylie (though maybe he gets run at guard) 

- Lucas 

 

Stromboli, I’d like to see play this year again but he’s on IR. 

The need depth and starters

 

If they aren’t very active in FA they’re going to have to tilt the draft that way.

 

Which makes picking a QB hard.  If they get a top QB and don’t protect them it’s going to be a disaster. 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They absolutely have to find a way to get 3-4 new OL possible starters before the draft.  Otherwise they’re going to get stuck having to pick OL because they won’t have any option. 
 

I would assume the following players are nit in the plans:

- Leno

- Charles

- Paul

- Wylie (though maybe he gets run at guard) 

- Lucas 

 

Stromboli, I’d like to see play this year again but he’s on IR. 

The need depth and starters

 

If they aren’t very active in FA they’re going to have to tilt the draft that way.

 

Which makes picking a QB hard.  If they get a top QB and don’t protect them it’s going to be a disaster. 

Youre not turning this team around overnight. You gotta get your QB first. If youre not 💯 sold on Howell then get someone else.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

That was an ugly pick from Mahomes there. Been an average season by his standards. 

They are woefully short on weapons.  
 

The need to reload offensive weapons this off season.  Mahomes has been pressing all year because he knows he has to be Superman all the time.  
 

What’s wild is this might be the Chiefs “rebuilding” year when they are just a very good team, not a great team. And lose in the AFC Championship game instead of getting to the SB.  
 

Golly, it would suck to have an off year like that.  

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Youre not turning this team around overnight. You gotta get your QB first. If youre not 💯 sold on Howell then get someone else.

I agree in concept.  But if you get the QB and they take a beating you risk destroying your investment.  
 

Part of the issue with high first round picks failing at an alarming rate is they go to teams which stink and get beat up while they’re learning.

 

They can’t do everything overnight. 
 

But I’d prioritize the OL and TE and ignore the defense for a year if I decided to go QB.

 

 

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The Consigliere

The Consigliere

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18 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Man Bryce Young look terrible. The Panthers will never live that decision down. 

If he's as bad as he looks, they'll be horrible again in '24, and have a 1st in '25 to reboot with a new QB. 

 

It is definitely an all timer, and certainly one of the worst trades this century, maybe the worst because even if he hits, the ceiling is pretty low, and they also gave up their own '23rd 1st, a top 10 pick, the #1 overall in '24, and pro bowl caliber WR in his prime DJ Moore, plus a likely top 40 pick in 2025 (their 2nd), but when you make trades that go sideways like this one, or RGIII, the penalty  usually is a 2 year debacle, but its usually so bad, that it insures you pick very high once you get your first again. The reason we didn't is we stole Cousins in the same class we blew it with RGIII, so the inevitable tank job only lasted really 2 more seasons, and we didn't need to go after a new QB in '14/'15 because we already found one. That's exceptionally rare, although oddly, we kinda did it twice (drafted bust Shuler, and replacement level mediocrity in the same class Frerotte). 

 

Its horrible, it really is, but they need 2 years to evaluate the kid anyway, and they'll get it because they can't do anything about the problem with their '24 assets, it keeps them from bailing a little too fast. 

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The Consigliere

The Consigliere

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17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:


I am one of the bigger fans of Alt on the draft thread but still IMO Harrison is a full peg better. I don’t think it’s even that close. Some are talking up Harrison as the best WR prospect in decades. Alt or Fashanu aren’t on that level.

 

Yet, I don’t hate the idea of taking Fasanu or Alt but if the idea is to go O line no matter what I’d rather trade down in that case.

 

I hate drafting to need. Yet Ron boxed us in on that position so it’s tough.  The philosophy of taking lesser players because they are in spots of greater need make me cringe. But sadly Ron put us in this pickle. 

I don't think we should feel boxed in. We have six top 105ish picks, and a giant boat load of cap room, and we are gonna suck next year two, so we can make rebuilding the OL and its depth a two year program and allocate resources accordingly. There's no reason we should fixate on OL with the pick. If the guy is the best talent available at slot, fine, take him, but we shouldn't feel we have to do so. We are operating with likely 3 top 40ish picks, and 6 top 105ish as I mentioned before, plenty of bullets to attack the OL and not "force" need picks, especially at the top of the draft. If Fashanu is there and he's the best talent available, sure, but if he's there and he isn't the best player at slot, go another direction and use one or both of the 2nds on OL. Never make a pick from a sense of being "forced" too. This team is gonna be horrible for 2-3 years at minimum no matter what they do. Need shouldn't matter, the best allocation of draft capital and cap money should be the priority.

 

It's like the Wiz. Some people are upset about how hard it is to move Poole, or Kuz, or whomever, what position to prioritize in the draft etc. All that means ---- all. The Wiz have a bottom 2, probably bottom period roster in the league. The Need is "ANYTHING and EVERYTHING". Pretty much same with the Redskins/WFT/Commanders. Anything other than DT is basically a need on this team. Literally anything. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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2 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I don't think we should feel boxed in. We have six top 105ish picks, and a giant boat load of cap room, and we are gonna suck next year two, so we can make rebuilding the OL and its depth a two year program and allocate resources accordingly. There's no reason we should fixate on OL with the pick.

 

I've made the same point 100 times plus on different threads including this one where I explained who I'd consider.  My point wasn't that literal, it was we need to do something for that unit in a big way.  

 

 

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El Mexican

El Mexican

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21 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

The Portland Trail Blazers once drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because they needed a center. Point is, if we're picking at 4 and there's a generational player there you take him regardless of position, including if it's an offensive lineman. Our new GM is gonna have all kinds of directions he can go in with our pick(s).....Free agency will be huge for us. 

 

That's the same mentality that landed us four D-linemen that never lived up to their expectations of a formidable defense.

None of them were bad by any means when they played together, just a luxury for our current unbalanced team.

 

Two of them (the ones we still have) are very good, no doubt. But did we need four of them? Reality has spoken.

 

I think it's time to invest heavily on the O-line and go from there since we already have a young and competent QB.

 

Edited by El Mexican
Clarity
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HTTSkins

HTTSkins

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On 12/3/2023 at 4:46 PM, ntotoro said:

Ron has gaslit everyone into thinking it takes 4-5 years to build that kind of culture while we see teams doing it in two with hints at it from the start. Meanwhile, he's actually created a team for which mediocrity would be an improvement.

 

He has to know he's a dead man walking.

Nuke whole ****ing thing ! I thought with JDR gone the defense may respond and they’re worse!! We are the worst team in football right now 

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