Per Rappaport, Jack Del Rio/ Vieselmeyer Fired. Ron will run defense for rest of Season

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

7 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Man did you see number 71 in the endzone celebrating? Trent has some serious longevity skills over the decades. Very impressive.

[Bunny Kelly]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, I’m THE biggest hater on the board bar none and I even give Jay a pass on not having a GM.  

 

Are we choosing to ignore the Scott Mcloughan era when he built most of Jay's team & coincided with Jay's best results

[Riggo-toni]

Scotty Mac's first draft was pretty good, but he mostly bombed out on the second one. First 2 picks were complete busts, Fabian Moreau was a good pick in the 3rd, and Jay was reportedly behind the best value pick in Ioan Man.

[Bunny Kelly]

His drafts overall were underwhelming but there is more to a GM's job than just the draft, we just felt a better run team & I give Scott M credit for that as Jay always felt like a child who couldn't organise anything.

 

And going back to the original point of Jay having a similar record Ron, my point was that Scott M was prob the best GM out of Bruce, Scott M & Ron (I know low bar)

[Koolblue13]

12 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

At least you don't need hot water when flushing. 

[RandyHolt]

10 hours ago, c slag said:

If Ron said he liked most of JDR's defense plays ,but a few he will make some changes on , why wait until JDR is gone to make these minor changes?

Why not adress this with JDR during the previous four years they worked together?

 And if the D actually improves with these changes, there is no excuse for not demanding JDR make these changes earlier, when Ron first noticed they should be made

Its going to painful to watch how easy it is to fix the defense.

[Chris 44]

17 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Its going to painful to watch how easy it is to fix the defense.

I'd love to be wrong but this defense is in serious need of a true talent upgrade. Not a single game changer in the bunch though Allen and Payne if motivated and used correctly have that potential.  Very few others on this D could start on a decent current defense.

[CobraCommander]

If it’s night and day difference then I will remove my tinfoil hat and scream from the top of my lungs that JDR has been phoning it in. But I doubt it. Especially without Montez Sweat and to a lesser degree Chase Young. Speaking of which I saw him on a Ledos pizza sign yesterday. How is he doing in San Fran?

[method man]

5 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I'd love to be wrong but this defense is in serious need of a true talent upgrade. Not a single game changer in the bunch though Allen and Payne if motivated and used correctly have that potential.  Very few others on this D could start on a decent current defense.

I think we need to find that elite EDGE player, a green dot LB and a FS who can lead the secondary but we are all forgetting that this D was a top 10 D a year ago. 
 

The only guys playing better this year vs last year are Fuller (longtime vet in a contract year) and Davis (he was horrible first quarter of 2022). Everyone else has regressed and, in the cases of BSJ, Allen, Payne, Curl and Forrest, they have regressed hard

With a competent DC and position coaches and some talent upgrades, I think we can get back to respectability next year and at least be average

[RandyHolt]

20 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I'd love to be wrong but this defense is in serious need of a true talent upgrade. Not a single game changer in the bunch though Allen and Payne if motivated and used correctly have that potential.  Very few others on this D could start on a decent current defense.

Fans almost universally seemed to think we were going to have a dominant defense this year.  Folks here seem pretty damn educated on prospects and picks. Experts seemed to predict the same.

 

I had been bearish and figured we would be in bend don't break, regardless. Underachieving on D for decades - the better the DTs the worse we are somehow. I think we are worse than BDB because we don't attack yet still see WRs behind DBs - a hot mess.   Bearish also because top picks were not targeting week 1 every down types: Jamin an athlete a good character guy... rah rah raw af with little experience. Mathis an NT type jogging off on every 2nd down taken into a position of strength. Quan is one of those hybrid types that seems to do little well so far and doesn't seem to fit much. Forbes just seems a hot mess right now trying to find his way. But other teams would have taken them too, just not as early as we did. So how truly bad can they be??  As bad as JDRs failed scheme could make them be.

 

Selling off our DEs is going hurt but we'll see - DC's from the beginning of time have had to find a way to make what they have, work.  Is Ron going to go out with a @bang, or a whimper.  I want to see him coaching angry with nothing to lose. If he does, I boldly predict we will see more than just flashes of that dominant D most all (but me and ?) thought we were.

Edited November 26, 2023 by RandyHolt

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It’s a no-win situation for Ron.  If by the small chance, the changes he makes yield much better results- it’s an indictment on him watching his career officially go down the drain by not doing anything about it a lot sooner.

[MartinC]

22 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I'd love to be wrong but this defense is in serious need of a true talent upgrade. Not a single game changer in the bunch though Allen and Payne if motivated and used correctly have that potential.  Very few others on this D could start on a decent current defense.

Disagree - though I agree it does need a talent injection. 
 

Allen and Payne are plus starters. So is Curl.  Those three starts anywhere. Fuller and St Juste would start for most teams, though St Juste has struggled this year. Davis would start for a lot of teams as well. 
 

We traded away two plus starters as well once the season was dead. 

 

Forbes has struggled but how much of that was/is coaching? Martin has looked much better the last few weeks. 
 

We lack real quality at backer and Butler has struggled at FS. But there was and is plenty of talent on this D - it takes good coaching though to put players in a position to excel. 

[PolarExpress]

10 hours ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Man did you see number 71 in the endzone celebrating? Trent has some serious longevity skills over the decades. Very impressive.

Lord, that brought tears to my eyes.  I remember the glory days, Super Bowls and hope they return soon.  I have such great memories watching with my parents, who sadly are gone now.

45 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s a no-win situation for Ron.  If by the small chance, the changes he makes yield much better results- it’s an indictment on him watching his career officially go down the drain by not doing anything about it a lot sooner.

“NO WIN” being the operative word.  😎

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

Disagree - though I agree it does need a talent injection. 
 

Allen and Payne are plus starters. So is Curl.  Those three starts anywhere. Fuller and St Juste would start for most teams, though St Juste has struggled this year. Davis would start for a lot of teams as well. 
 

We traded away two plus starters as well once the season was dead. 

 

Forbes has struggled but how much of that was/is coaching? Martin has looked much better the last few weeks. 
 

We lack real quality at backer and Butler has struggled at FS. But there was and is plenty of talent on this D - it takes good coaching though to put players in a position to excel. 

We have some good players but no real game changing difference makers. When was the last time any of our guys had a strip sack or pick 6 or anything like that? 

[Conn]

19 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

I think Harris would make sound reasonable decisions on his own but Magic and his 240 million dollar investment has a much bigger voice than his 4% share. Same with Ein and a couple others.  

There is literally no reason to think this. Especially the bolded. I’m sure Harris will bounce things around his ownership group that make sense—he assembled a group of wealthy people that he respects and some of them have expertise in areas like real estate, financing, and the like. The networking and resources are invaluable in a situation where we need a new everything eventually—stadium, training facility, team headquarters, business offices, everything. I’m sure those folks will be leaned on plenty for things like that.

 

But in a football sense, like any other ownership group, the minority shares have no say. There is no disagreement, no dissent that can affect anything unless Harris wants to take advice. They don’t have voting shares and can’t sell to each other to create a new majority controlling shareholder, it’s not Succession. Harris is the dude who has owned and run multiple franchises, and he’s the dude with the actual say to make decisions here. Magic is just a face you’ll see and hear from, he has no actual pull, no actual idea how to run an organization worth $6B. Hell, if we’re lucky we’ll eventually be paying a stud franchise QB more than Magic’s entire investment. Magic is a PR magnet.
 

All of that to say, you aren’t going to be hearing “the GM candidate from the Steelers FO was Harris’ first choice but the GM candidate from the Ravens was Magic and Rales’ first choice” type stuff. Magic owns 4% of the team, the same amount Harris just owned of the Steelers when he was an invisible wallet in the NFL. Due to who he is Magic is going to have an outsized presence to fans and the media, but he’s not even going to be in the room choosing FO and HC candidates like that.
 

Harris only even has so many partners in the first place because of the NFL’s archaic financing rules that made sense when teams were worth less than $1B. 

[MrJL]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We have some good players but no real game changing difference makers. When was the last time any of our guys had a strip sack or pick 6 or anything like that? 

a pick six is as much on the other team as the guy returning the ball

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, MrJL said:

a pick six is as much on the other team as the guy returning the ball

We sacked Tommy Devito nine times and not one guy could get a strip sack either. 

 

Our guys just aren't game changers.

[Conn]

20 minutes ago, MrJL said:

a pick six is as much on the other team as the guy returning the ball

Many of the most impactful interceptions in the history of the game have been an intersection of endless film study on the defender’s part to bait the throw and excellent talent to follow through and get the turnover; aided by defensive scheme to trick and confuse the QB, even better to pressure him—get enough of those in defenders’ hands and some of them will be run back for 6. 
 

It’s not equally on an opposing QB just making a poor decision or throw like you imply here. There’s a lot more knowledge and talent behind creating that pick-6 that is in control of the defensive team. We don’t have the game-changing talent or the schematic genius to compensate for that lack of talent—nevermind highlighting it. 

[MrJL]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

Many of the most impactful interceptions in the history of the game have been an intersection of endless film study on the defender’s part to bait the throw and excellent talent to follow through and get the turnover; aided by defensive scheme to trick and confuse the QB, even better to pressure him—get enough of those in defenders’ hands and some of them will be run back for 6. 
 

It’s not equally on an opposing QB just making a poor decision or throw like you imply here. There’s a lot more knowledge and talent behind creating that pick-6 that is in control of the defensive team. We don’t have the game-changing talent or the schematic genius to compensate for that lack of talent—nevermind highlighting it. 

 

actually, that's not what I'm implying.  I'm pointing out there's 11 guys of the offense on the field and most of them are in front of the defender who just made the pick, so a pick 6 is frequently a fail on their part.  It depends on the route the pick was thrown on and all but still

Edited November 26, 2023 by MrJL

[88Comrade2000]

37 minutes ago, Conn said:

There is literally no reason to think this. Especially the bolded. I’m sure Harris will bounce things around his ownership group that make sense—he assembled a group of wealthy people that he respects and some of them have expertise in areas like real estate, financing, and the like. The networking and resources are invaluable in a situation where we need a new everything eventually—stadium, training facility, team headquarters, business offices, everything. I’m sure those folks will be leaned on plenty for things like that.

 

But in a football sense, like any other ownership group, the minority shares have no say. There is no disagreement, no dissent that can affect anything unless Harris wants to take advice. They don’t have voting shares and can’t sell to each other to create a new majority controlling shareholder, it’s not Succession. Harris is the dude who has owned and run multiple franchises, and he’s the dude with the actual say to make decisions here. Magic is just a face you’ll see and hear from, he has no actual pull, no actual idea how to run an organization worth $6B. Hell, if we’re lucky we’ll eventually be paying a stud franchise QB more than Magic’s entire investment. Magic is a PR magnet.
 

All of that to say, you aren’t going to be hearing “the GM candidate from the Steelers FO was Harris’ first choice but the GM candidate from the Ravens was Magic and Rales’ first choice” type stuff. Magic owns 4% of the team, the same amount Harris just owned of the Steelers when he was an invisible wallet in the NFL. Due to who he is Magic is going to have an outsized presence to fans and the media, but he’s not even going to be in the room choosing FO and HC candidates like that.
 

Harris only even has so many partners in the first place because of the NFL’s archaic financing rules that made sense when teams were worth less than $1B. 

Yeah, Harris the one calling the shots.  Rales will be used for his strengths, I think will play a big factor in getting a stadium deal.  Magic is more for pr and community relations. Rales may have Magic there in negotiations for a new stadium to help convince DC,Va or MD to make a deal.  I think Magic's big role will be with community relations.  MAgic will be the team's link to the community in their outreach to the fans.

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

actually, that's not what I'm implying.  I'm pointing out there's 11 guys of the offense on the field and most of them are in front of the defender who just made the pick, so a pick 6 is frequently a fail on their part.  It depends on the route the pick was thrown on and all but still

Of course. But the more turnovers you get in hand the more likely some of them turn into scores. Obviously having 5 in the same season like Bland is incredible luck, but you create the opportunity to benefit from such luck through an intersection of scheme, work, and talent. The football gods help those who help themselves, etc. Any individual play can be the result of luck or the poor performance of the other team. But you have to zoom out and question how or why certain teams are consistently putting themselves in position to benefit, on a macro scale, and why we are not.

[88Comrade2000]

 

I expect most of the roster to be overturned the next couple of years.  Also, I can us moving on from players that are still good.  Allen could be traded. Probably can get a 2nd rounder and maybe a 1st.  Payne has a bigger cap hit, so he's probably staying.  Terry could also be moved, especially if draft Harrison Jr.  Probably only get a 3rd or 4th for him, since he's not having a good year as in past years. 

 

Most of the roster will be overturned.

[Riggo#44]

6 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Magic is more for pr and community relations.

Free agents too

[88Comrade2000]

3 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Free agents too

I guess but I think who the coach is and how the team is being constructed will be more factors than Magic sweet talking them.

[TheBlueIndian]

15 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Free agents too

And to talk ,,,,S..... on X or Tweeter or whatever its called.

 

Magic is a winner from the old school, and I think it's great that he calls it like he sees it. The same way we do except he has an audience. I doubt many of the players take it personally, they too know the ineptitude of this staff. At least Magic is calling it out