Next Day Thread: I Can't Think of a Witty Giant Pun

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The other thing that Ron keeps saying is we are a young football team.  
 

Newsflash: we’re not.  
 

There isn’t a single rookie starting at the moment.  
 

The defense is filled with veterans.  They’re not young

 

The offense isn’t young except for Dotson.  
 

It’s a veteran team. 
 

 

This is a great point and caused me to look it up. Washington's average age is tied with the Ravens for 15th place. They are smack dab in the middle of the league. They are not a young team, they have a young QB.  As you mentioned the rookie class does not even play. **** Ron Rivera and his constant excuses.  

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, jjpomeroy said:

I know folks are hoping that we’ll try to trade players before the trade deadline to get some value, but seriously - do we want Ron and the existing front office making these decisions?

Awe HELL NO.

16 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If you look around the league you will notice that every team's starting running back is as good, or in most cases better, than Robinson.  Same thing with Gibson vs other teams change of pace RB.  The criticism, which is completely valid, is they spent 2  high 3rds on below average players when equal value could have easily been obtained in the later rounds.  

How do we know? He was pretty good last year and Gibby who I have no love for, was criminally misused. 

 

We don't run the ball and when we do, it's some of the dumbest runs at the worst time.

 

BRob has proven that if you feed him, he produces. We aren't doing that. We almost bench him in the second half for CRod.

[Warhead36]

Robinson is...fine. Nothing special, but for a 3rd round pick he's on par with what he should be. 

 

I have liked what I've seen from Rodriguez though. He's got good vision and shiftiness while also hitting the hole hard. I don't know the exact #s but feels like he has a high % of productive carries.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The other thing that Ron keeps saying is we are a young football team.  
 

Newsflash: we’re not.  
 

There isn’t a single rookie starting at the moment.  
 

The defense is filled with veterans.  They’re not young

 

The offense isn’t young except for Dotson.  
 

It’s a veteran team. 
 

So to follow up on this, listening to Bram’s podcast, he said he looked up the team age ratings when Rivera said this the first time earlier this week, and we are 15th in terms of team age.  
 

Said he didn’t want to disagree with the coach’s narrative, but it wasn’t true.  
 

Reminder: Bram is an employee of the team (partially) as the play by play voice, and has inside access nobody else in the media has because he calls the games.  He’s critical of the team when necessary but obviously not over the top negative, which would be counter productive for him. 
 

When that guy starts calling out your bullpucky excuses, you’ve gone WAY too far. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

33 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

BRob has proven that if you feed him, he produces. We aren't doing that. We almost bench him in the second half for CRod

The problem is you can’t keep running when you’re getting nothing out of it because you end up with fewer plays.

 

Heres the scenario which comes up way too often:

 

1st down: run for 1 yard

2nd down: (known passing situation) sack

3rd down: either sack or short completion

4th down: punt

 

in order to get more runs they need to have more productive runs.  If you get 4 yards on a run, then you’re able to get more first downs and by definition you get more runs.

 

When you get 1 yard a rush attempt, you’re punting a lot and you can’t feed anybody anything because you don’t have the ball.

 

I think if we weren’t struggling to get 45 plays a game vs. 65-70, you’d see more of everything.

 

So the challenge is to get better runs first.  Once you’ve gotten the runs going for more than a yard, you can start getting more plays and more runs.  

48 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

This is a great point and caused me to look it up. Washington's average age is tied with the Ravens for 15th place. They are smack dab in the middle of the league. They are not a young team, they have a young QB.  As you mentioned the rookie class does not even play. **** Ron Rivera and his constant excuses.  

Green Bay is actually the youngest team and that surprised me.  

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The problem is you can’t keep running when you’re getting nothing out of it because you end up with fewer plays.

 

Heres the scenario which comes up way too often:

 

1st down: run for 1 yard

2nd down: (known passing situation) sack

3rd down: either sack or short completion

4th down: punt

 

in order to get more runs they need to have more productive runs.  If you get 4 yards on a run, then you’re able to get more first downs and by definition you get more runs.

 

When you get 1 yard a rush attempt, you’re punting a lot and you can’t feed anybody anything because you don’t have the ball.

 

I think if we weren’t struggling to get 45 plays a game vs. 65-70, you’d see more of everything.

 

So the challenge is to get better runs first.  Once you’ve gotten the runs going for more than a yard, you can start getting more plays and more runs.  

Agreed. Running BRob up the gut out of the shotgun into the best DT tandem who's been blowing up your IOL all day is some of the dumbest **** I've seen an OC do.

 

Our run game is pathetic. Maybe we'll see that sweep to the right out of gun this week. Probably not, because we only seem to run that every other week.

 

Yes, I agree, our OC can't call a run game to save his life.

 

You still need to run the ball, especially when your QB is getting murdered.

 

Last year as bad as it was, we ran the ball worse than anyone and still ran more than anyone and went on a 5 or 6 game win streak trying to hide a bad QB.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Koolblue13

[DJHJR86]

19 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He’s been in the bag for EB in a big way - ties to Andy and he’s an old school screamer and yeller.  I fully expect him to continue to point fingers at everyone but EB until all these guys get fired.

 

Mitchell isn't the only one with an EB agenda...

 

 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Agreed. Running BRob up the gut out of the shotgun into the best DT tandem who's been blowing up your IOL all day is some of the dumbest **** I've seen an OC do.

 

Our run game is pathetic. Maybe we'll see that sweep to the right out of gun this week. Probably not, because we only seem to run that every other week.

 

Yes, I agree, our OC can't call a run game to save his life.

 

You still need to run the ball, especially when your QB is getting murdered.

 

Last year as bad as it was, we ran the ball worse than anyone and still ran more than anyone and went on a 5 or 6 game win streak trying to hide a bad QB.

 

 

 

I honestly don't know what they are supposed to do. All week we will again hear how EB didn't run enough to help his young QB.   But running into brick walls and giving your young QB 2nd and 9 or 3rd and 8 is not helping a young QB.  What they should have done, obviously, is invest in the OL as all the fans were screaming for to help a young QB develop.  It's frustrating as Hell when we appear to know more than the people who are paid to make these decisions do.

[Warhead36]

Why are we always in shotgun? Why can't we just do normal under center handoffs? These shotgun draw plays that always result in 1 yard on 1st down are just Scotty Turner 2.0. 

 

Because of this, we can never run PA from under center. Shotgun PA is nowhere near as effective. 

 

Can't believe I'm saying this but EB might actually be worse than Turner, except at least he doesn't call random trick plays in the red zone.

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I honestly don't know what they are supposed to do. All week we will again hear how EB didn't run enough to help his young QB.   But running into brick walls and giving your young QB 2nd and 9 or 3rd and 8 is not helping a young QB.  What they should have done, obviously, is invest in the OL as all the fans were screaming for to help a young QB develop.  It's frustrating as Hell when we appear to know more than the people who are paid to make these decisions do.

We need to scheme quick, easy completions on 1st down. We don't need to go for 20 yard shots. Just some quick, easy slants or crossers. Get a solid 5-6 yards or so. Then we can get a rhythm going.

 

The problem for our offense right now is 1st down efficiency. We either run the ball for a gain of 1(or get stuffed), or we pass the ball and when we pass its too often an incompletion.

 

Then we get to 2nd and long, which is way too often a wasted down running the ball. When we do pass its often a sack.

 

Then 3rd and long which is a sack like 75% of the time at least(I'm making that up but I bet I'm close). 

 

We need to focus big time on 1st down efficiency. We do that, get a rhythm going, and everything else will fall into place.

[BurgundyBooger]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Why are we always in shotgun? Why can't we just do normal under center handoffs? These shotgun draw plays that always result in 1 yard on 1st down are just Scotty Turner 2.0. 

 

If I was playing behind that o-line, I'd want to be as far away from the LOS as possible, too. On a serious note, playing under center and executing handoffs means they'd have to sprinkle in some playaction which Sam doesn't seem have the poise or protection-time to execute.

Edited October 24, 2023 by BurgundyBooger

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Mitchell isn't the only one with an EB agenda...

I put zero stock into what Hoffman has to say about anything. I’d actually rather listen to Doc Walker yell and call grown men tarantulas.  
 

There are numerous credible resources out there.  I go looking on Twitter/Youtube every week for guys like Bullock, O’Sullivan and even stuff like PFF and guys like Gruden.  I feel like if Sam was really the primary culprit behind the god awful offense there would be more proof to support that.  I’m just not seeing much damning tape and analysis out there.  Of course it’s not all perfect and he makes mistakes every week, but he’s not a disaster and the offense itself is disastrous.

 

What it’s looked like to me all along is an awful marriage of an inexperienced QB, an inexperienced OC, and an offensive line that lacks talent and cohesion.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Last year as bad as it was, we ran the ball worse than anyone and still ran more than anyone and went on a 5 or 6 game win streak trying to hide a bad QB.

For whatever the reasons, the run game was better last year.  
 

Though I remember plenty of times Turner called the same dive play for 1-3 yards over and over and over again. 
 

What I can’t understand is they ostensibly brought in more athletic OL players to run a zone-stretch burn scheme and we’ve seen virtually none of it.  
 

I wonder if they are in the position the team was in for years after Shanahan left: the RBs can’t do what the OL can do, and the OL can’t do what the RBs can do.  
 

So you revert to calling Duo a lot and hoping you get something out of it.  

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Mitchell isn't the only one with an EB agenda...

 

 

 

 

I’m confused by this.  Who is the main culprit if it’s not EB and why aren’t we going to like it? 

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m confused by this.  Who is the main culprit if it’s not EB and why aren’t we going to like it? 

He's probably hinting at Howell.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There are numerous credible resources out there.  I go looking on Twitter/Youtube every week for guys like Bullock, O’Sullivan and even stuff like PFF and guys like Gruden.

Bold above:

 

 

(NOTE: I’m not trying to detail the thread out our idiot former coach.  Just making a very on brand joke.)

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[DJHJR86]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m confused by this.  Who is the main culprit if it’s not EB and why aren’t we going to like it? 

 

He put that game mostly on Howell.  Don't ask me why, but he did.  My guess is that these local sports guys want access to the team and don't want to say anything that might upset the coaches.  It could be why Logan Paulsen went from saying Howell's ceiling was a high end backup to randomly saying he could be a top half of the league starter in less than 48 hours.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

He's probably hinting at Howell.

Probably.

 

But until Howell can figure out how to get more then .7 yards per rush I find it hard to blame him for the whole thing. 
 

I do think there are guys open a lot more than people are giving credit for.  I saw that when I went to the game.  
 

And even some of the clips posted with the “find an open guy” narrative, there are 2/3 guys “open” when it comes to the NFL.  Also, the stills are misleading to an extent, because in a proper WCO you throw BEFORE the receiver makes the break, so obviously guys are going to look covered at the top of the drop. 
 

But there are a lot of “credible sources” and some sources who are not credible at all but have a following who have no idea what they’re looking at.  (NOTE: as much as I joke on Gruden, he is not one of those guys.  He is a former WCO OC and knows how the offense works.  He just can’t coach it worth a damn.)

 

So, I think there’s a lot on Howell too.  But, I entirely expected that with a 23 year old QB switching schemes and having played (now) a grand total of 8 games.  It takes at least a year to figure this offense out. Walsh said 3.  And I think he was talking about a veteran.  
 

So, sure, Sam is going to have missed and he’s going to not see “open” guys.  And I don’t care.  Totally expected and he’s been pretty good at everything other than at times he holds the ball.  
 

The run game is atrocious.  They need to fix the yards per carry first, and then they need to run the ball more.  That will help Sam.  
 

But the way they are running the ball, they just shouldn’t even try because it’s like a give-up down.  

[srtman04]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So to follow up on this, listening to Bram’s podcast, he said he looked up the team age ratings when Rivera said this the first time earlier this week, and we are 15th in terms of team age.  
 

 

This means our team's players should be in their prime and tearing up the league right now.  We seem to be REGRESSING at every facet of the game.   That is 100% coaching.  

[Skinsinparadise]

It didn't go under the radar here.

 

Sheehan was talking about Rivera's press conference yesterday and summarized it like this:

 

Ron is saying don't look at the team now, instead think about what it could look like in future seasons.  Sheehan mocked it some saying statistically this roster is dead in the middle as for the age of the roster.  He mentioned but I missed that Rivera in that press conference didn't committ as to Howell being the starter for the rest of the season which contradicted the rest of his earilier rap which was all about give us a break we have a young QB lets get excited about the young QB. 

 

Keim jumped on and said he knows Ron is trying to sell the brass on the same theme -- give me a pass for this year, its about a young roster growing, lets focus on the future. 

 

Keim and Sheehan discussed the idea of canning Rivera midseason.  They both don't think Harris does it -- Keim doesn't like the precedent of Harris telling people behind the scenes Rivera will have the season and then he doesn't give it to him -- if the idea is attracting someone they really like to take over here.  

 

Keim wasn't sure if this team would be sellers.  He said teams have hit them up for months about the pass rushers so they can move one but he thinks this Eagles game might determine whether that happens or not.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[NewCliche21]

Thanks, @Skinsinparadise , I was looking for that quote about vindication.

In part I think, yeah, he has cleaned up a lot of **** here.  He deserves credit for that. But like Heinicke, he isn't the future. It was put up or shut up, and now it's just shut up.

I am, however, really excited about Howell.

I wish I could ask Keim if brass-by-proxy were talking to main players like McLaurin and Allen to say but not say, "We hear you. We're not telling you you're wrong, and we hear you." I just don't want players like that feeling like it's gonna be the same bull**** for another seven years.

[Rufus T Firefly]

9 hours ago, jjpomeroy said:

I know folks are hoping that we’ll try to trade players before the trade deadline to get some value, but seriously - do we want Ron and the existing front office making these decisions?

 

No matter what - I can’t see Harris and Crew letting Ron making personnel decisions with any impact beyond the 2023 season.  

If Harris lets Ron go fire sale route  - I am extremely concerned.  Any decisions impacting the team beyond this season MUST be left to the new GM/Head of Football Operations that will be hired.  
 

Hopefully, “Team Harris” is already getting advice and insights about the existing roster and has started the process of identifying this potential new GM/Head of Football Operations.

My wish is they would have immediately brought in someone to run the FO. They had months to line that up before the sale became finalized. But oh well.

 

As for these guys making decisions at the deadline. Yes, let them. Trading players who are either FAs or potential cuts for something now rather than losing them for nothing is the right move. It's not a situation that has a high risk of damaging the teams future. Obviously, them trading McLaurin, Allen or someone along those lines would be a different situation and need to be set up for the ownership to decide, but that isn't going to happen anyway. 

[Ball Security]

5 hours ago, srtman04 said:

 

This means our team's players should be in their prime and tearing up the league right now.  We seem to be REGRESSING at every facet of the game.   That is 100% coaching.  

Did you not see our man Way boom 500+ yards in punting? 🤣

[srtman04]

15 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Did you not see our man Way boom 500+ yards in punting? 🤣

 

Truly sad when your best player is the punter!!   

[skinny21]

7 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Truly sad when your best player is the punter!!   

Not the first time for us unfortunately 😔

[Xameil]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Not the first time for us unfortunately 😔

Tres Way has been our MVP for YEARS

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not this year. Ron even broke Tress Way.