Next Day Thread: Bea

[Voice_of_Reason]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This confuses me because I've heard both Ron and Jack talk about "matchup Zone" for ... 3 years? And the reason WJIII didn't work out is because he couldn't play the matchup zone?

 

So, either Nick Akridge doesn't know what a matchup zone looks like on film (which, frankly, is possible, and not a knock on him, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between man and matchup zone on film either) or we're doing some really bizarre things.  

 

I do wonder, maybe they're trying to play this mysterious and magical matchup zone, failing at it misserabley early, so it looks all discombobulated and like man coverage, then they figure it out, and it looks like zone again. 

 

I dunno.

 

I don't actually think they were playing man defense. Or zone defense.  Or matchup zone defense.  Or, really any defense at all. To be honest.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Forrest

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

20 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This confuses me because I've heard both Ron and Jack talk about "matchup Zone" for ... 3 years? And the reason WJIII didn't work out is because he couldn't play the matchup zone?

 

So, either Nick Akridge doesn't know what a matchup zone looks like on film (which, frankly, is possible, and not a knock on him, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between man and matchup zone on film either) or we're doing some really bizarre things.  

 

I do wonder, maybe they're trying to play this mysterious and magical matchup zone, failing at it misserabley early, so it looks all discombobulated and like man coverage, then they figure it out, and it looks like zone again. 

 

I dunno.

 

I don't actually think they were playing man defense. Or zone defense.  Or matchup zone defense.  Or, really any defense at all. To be honest.  

I think they wanted turnovers which zone wasn't getting. So they abandoned it. And we're paying for it 

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think they wanted turnovers which zone wasn't getting. So they abandoned it. And we're paying for it 

I don't know that you're right.  I haven't seen that "reported" anywhere.  You might be right. I dunno.  I'm not sure man vs. zone is going to help much.

 

[Conn]

Sometimes I think that people don’t know what “prevent” is and just use it to describe the defense whenever we’re playing from behind. It’s the only explanation for some of the posts in here. Howell did not attempt the comeback after halftime against a prevent defense lol 

[Thinking Skins]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't know that you're right.  I haven't seen that "reported" anywhere.  You might be right. I dunno.  I'm not sure man vs. zone is going to help much.

 

I've seen the man stuff reported. I will look for the numbers. Maybe it's different because I remember JDR saying people don't know what they're seeing cause it's meant to confuse. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

The only reason we were in it was they went prevent to start the 2nd half and gifted us 14 points to milk the clock. After that it was check down ****ty and why our backs and TEs logged ~200 receiving yards.

This is not accurate.

 

Just because it looked easier to move the ball doesn’t mean the Bears were in prevent.  They were in anything but prevent.  Their defensive minded coach, feeling more stress than he’s likely ever felt in his life, wasn’t about to start calling “prevent” and didn’t.

[Stone Cold]

I think our defense is being handuffed while jdr tries to do too much.  Sometimes, and I believe this applies with us, you have to take the thinking out of it and let the athleticism take over.  He’s sending four and trying to run exotic backend coverage that has proven too much to handle.  Simple is better in this case…throw out the plan jdr and let them play 

[samy316]

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't know that you're right.  I haven't seen that "reported" anywhere.  You might be right. I dunno.  I'm not sure man vs. zone is going to help much.

 

This morning I was hearing a clip from some radio show on 106.7, and they had Dan Orlovsky on to discuss the Bears loss, and Orlovsky stated that he has no clue why Washington was playing man coverage the entire game, especially when it was becoming apparent that it wasn’t working.  Orlovsky blamed the Thursday loss 100% on coaching, and he was confused by Del Rio’s stubbornness to stick to something that wasn’t working.

Edited October 9, 2023 by samy316

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, samy316 said:

This morning I was hearing a clip from some radio show on 106.7, and they had Dan Orlovsky on to discuss the Bears loss, and Orlovsky stated that he has no clue why Washington was playing man coverage the entire game, especially when it was becoming apparent that it wasn’t working.  Orlovsky blamed the Thursday loss 100% on coaching, and he was confused by Del Rio’s stubbornness to stick to something that wasn’t working.

Orlovsky is wrong.  It wasn't 100% on coaching.

 

It is probably 50% on roster construction, 30% on coaching and 20% on players.  

 

[Thinking Skins]

50 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is not accurate.

 

Just because it looked easier to move the ball doesn’t mean the Bears were in prevent.  They were in anything but prevent.  Their defensive minded coach, feeling more stress than he’s likely ever felt in his life, wasn’t about to start calling “prevent” and didn’t.

The thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that their coach has been calling plays the past two weeks on defense and that's seen a change in their defense. So we probably couldn't prepare for them like we wanted to or scout them like before because they're not calling the same plays as before. They're blitzing a lot more than before and were trying to stay in our WRs and giving us the TE and RBs and daring us to beat them that way. So for the most part we took it until they have us matchups we liked and we took them, the DPI that wasn't called, the drop by Brown, the deep ball to Gibson, the deep ball to Samuel, the deep ball to Terry (after the missed DPI) 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Stone Cold said:

I think our defense is being handuffed while jdr tries to do too much.  Sometimes, and I believe this applies with us, you have to take the thinking out of it and let the athleticism take over.  He’s sending four and trying to run exotic backend coverage that has proven too much to handle.  Simple is better in this case…throw out the plan jdr and let them play 

It’s almost as simple as can be up front, that’s part of the problem. Just four guys JDR keeps arrogantly expecting to win straight up with no schematic help—so when they don’t (most of the time because the front is overhyped and rarely fully healthy) everything just falls apart. 

[Stone Cold]

10 minutes ago, Conn said:

It’s almost as simple as can be up front, that’s part of the problem. Just four guys JDR keeps arrogantly expecting to win straight up with no schematic help—so when they don’t (most of the time because the front is overhyped and rarely fully healthy) everything just falls apart. 

It’s plain and simple up front and we’re still not getting consistent pressure.  Losing the exotic coverages, I think, synches more.  The front 4 aren’t getting there quickly enough, and it’s exposing our disguised coverages.  Quit tryin to be cute jdr…line your dawgs up and tell them to hunt the ball.  Sure, we’ll give up the occasional big play, but playing downhill and applying pressure should be our Mo.  if you wanna be creative jdr?…lineup your 4 differently…have them rotate inside/out to give fresh looks.  Appply the pressure…good results will happen

Edited October 9, 2023 by Stone Cold

[Stone Cold]

Id also like to see Quan get some run where he’s chasing the qb a la Hassan Reddick.  Presnap alignment that gives different looks to the OL.  We’re way to predictable right now.  The only way to break that is to get aggressive…from everywhere.  Id start with quan and maybe let Hudson get some run doing the same imo

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Stone Cold said:

Id also like to see Quan get some run where he’s chasing the qb a la Hassan Reddick.  Presnap alignment that gives different looks to the OL.  We’re way to predictable right now.  The only way to break that is to get aggressive…from everywhere.  Id start with quan and maybe let Hudson get some run doing the same imo

Why do you want Quan rushing the passer?

[Stone Cold]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Why do you want Quan rushing the passer?

Either him or Hudson.  Move him around, chess piece him as 5th rusher to pressure QBs into mistakes.  It’s not fool proof by any stretch, but it would improve our chances of forcing mistakes.  Sitting back chillin is getting us carved up.  I wanna see pressure.  And I love how the eagles use reddick.  Would like to see some form of that in quan or Hudson bc I believe they have the tools to pull it off

[RandyHolt]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is not accurate.

 

Just because it looked easier to move the ball doesn’t mean the Bears were in prevent.  They were in anything but prevent.  Their defensive minded coach, feeling more stress than he’s likely ever felt in his life, wasn’t about to start calling “prevent” and didn’t.

Truly sorry. He heavily dialed back his aggressiveness and I called it prevent because it basically was compared to how aggressive the Bears were in the first half.

 

They were still more aggressive than JDR at his most aggressive this entire season so yeah maybe prevent is too strong a word.  What do you call the Bears defense to start the 2nd half?  If you think there was no change at all no need to reply. Peace!

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Either him or Hudson.  Move him around, chess piece him as 5th rusher to pressure QBs into mistakes.  It’s not fool proof by any stretch, but it would improve our chances of forcing mistakes.  Sitting back chillin is getting us carved up.  I wanna see pressure.  And I love how the eagles use reddick.  Would like to see some form of that in quan or Hudson bc I believe they have the tools to pull it off

Quan isn’t really a pass rusher. Hudson is a little bit better of a fit. In truth, Jamin Davis is our best “move around and pressure” guy. The problem is that he doesn’t have the chops to move around and cover/play on the defensive front. 
 

Quan wasn’t that kind of player really, either. 
 

He plays too high and doesn’t get off of blocks from linemen well at all. He’s a good tackler and good in space, so he works as a nickel/slot guy but he doesn’t have the pass rush chops and he’s a bit under sized to be mixing it up with OL. 
 

He had one sack in 5 college seasons.

 

In constrast, Hudson had 7.5 sacks in 2017 for Michigan as their Viper

Edited October 9, 2023 by KDawg

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

Id also like to see Quan get some run where he’s chasing the qb a la Hassan Reddick.  Presnap alignment that gives different looks to the OL.  We’re way to predictable right now.  The only way to break that is to get aggressive…from everywhere.  Id start with quan and maybe let Hudson get some run doing the same imo

 I like it. I think its clear Quan has struggles in the scheme on the back end. Lets try and still use him by giving him simple assignments - let someone on D outside the front 4 attack at the LOS and throw a curveball. Find a way to use him.

 

The problem is JDR giving different looks presnap to the OL is not in his playbook. He is a no frills you gotta beat my vanilla straight up D.  Maybe he will dust off his week 6 playbooks from yesteryears and do something different but I highly doubt it. He knows he has Forbes taking the heat for his failures so I think he'll stick to his defacto passive game plan until we are 2-6 and then you'll see him flip and our D take off. 

 

It'll be really bad if he doesnt see at least half our snaps on Sunday.

Edited October 10, 2023 by RandyHolt

[FootballZombie]

Quan gonna play?

...

On D?

...

As the last line of defense?

 

...

 

 

Ignore the sounds of a bag rapidly inflating/deflating. That's just me hyperventilating.

[Stone Cold]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Quan isn’t really a pass rusher. Hudson is a little bit better of a fit. In truth, Jamin Davis is our best “move around and pressure” guy. The problem is that he doesn’t have the chops to move around and cover/play on the defensive front. 
 

Quan wasn’t that kind of player really, either. 
 

He plays too high and doesn’t get off of blocks from linemen well at all. He’s a good tackler and good in space, so he works as a nickel/slot guy but he doesn’t have the pass rush chops and he’s a bit under sized to be mixing it up with OL. 
 

He had one sack in 5 college seasons.

Understood.  That said, I’d love to see Hudson get some run as a passrushing chess piece.  He doesn’t have to worry about nothing but chasing the qb with ball from wherever we line him up.  You keep Jamin and curl as centerfield and allow the cbs to play off enough to react to the inevitable errant pass from all the pressure.  Pressure wins.  Always

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

He didn’t really answer the question at all. 
 

Also… “we drafted Quan for the very specific reason that Kam got hurt last year [and not because he was the best choice for the team necessarily]” is wild to me.