Next Day Thread: Bea

[markmills67]

I don't know how the players can be ready to play with any passion when you have got a head coach like Rivera. 

The only things missing from Rivera on the sidelines are a Cardigan and Rocking Chair. 

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

Basically when we have leads Howell doesn't take late sacks. When we're trailing, they tee off and he takes extra shots. It doesn't matter if it's Micah Parsons or UDFA Joe Schmoe, our OL isn't good enough to win consistently in the pass. 

 

One change I'd make is starting the rookie at center. I think he's an upgrade. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Chris Cooley's harsh Commanders assessment

Nobody with association with the Washington Commanders looked favorably at how things transpired versus the Chicago Bears with the entire NFL world watching on primetime. They were heavily fancied to put away their opposition in front of another sold-out crowd, but it was an absolute disaster from start to finish en route to the team's third-straight reverse.

There's been some harsh criticism from analysts following the loss. Former Washington tight end Chris Cooley also had a frank assessment of the team's inept outing via USA Today Sports.

"If you are a good team, then win these games. If you are a good team, then consistently find ways to win these games. They can be a good team, but they are not. There is a lack of consistency. Who are they? They got run by the (0-4) Bears early in this game! I thought Washington was garbage. And are they going to continue to give up over 30 points a game? They are early in the season, so the preparation."

https://riggosrag.com/posts/commanders-news-ron-rivera-chris-cooley-logan-thomas-sam-howell

 

Keim is usually low key with criticism but he liad it on thick in that podcast.  He's been building up to it some, criticizing their off season multiple times recently.

 

 

 

[skinzplay]

Keim has been trying to hold back and be diplomatic for over 3 years. It's been hard, but he's a real pro. Best journalist and analyst covering this team, and highly, highly regarded by beat writers around the league and, more importantly, by current and former league and team officials. They respect him. They listen to him. They share their candid thoughts with him. He sees what RR is doing (and, more importantly, not doing). Like he alluded to the other day, this is getting old. In the off-season, he outright said that RR "botched" the OL again and has continually questioned the inexplicable approach to addressing our LB deficiency. He is tuned in like no other person covering this team. If he's saying it, or even alluding to it......pay attention.

[Riggo#44]

I am going to console myself today watching the Cowboys and Giants get bludgeoned. I think the Rams might pull an upset today too, which would be nice.

[KDawg]

I’m usually excited for Sunday football. The same today… until I realize we already played… and we lost to the Bears.

[FootballZombie]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Basically when we have leads Howell doesn't take late sacks. When we're trailing, they tee off and he takes extra shots

 

Nah that tweet is kinda misleading. It is a poor example of the message its trying to convey.

 

While Howell didn't take sacks in the last drive of two games we were leading... he couldn't.

In both games the final drive was comprised entirely of run plays, so the problem w/ taking sacks simply can not manifest.

 

If we did that more during the course of the game itself we would see a similar effect. Can't get sacked if you don't throw the ball.

[KDawg]

29 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Nah that tweet is kinda misleading. It is a poor example of the message its trying to convey.

 

While Howell didn't take sacks in the last drive of two games we were leading... he couldn't.

In both games the final drive was comprised entirely of run plays, so the problem w/ taking sacks simply can not manifest.

 

If we did that more during the course of the game itself we would see a similar effect. Can't get sacked if you don't throw the ball.

I actually think that’s the exact point of the tweet. We are taking sacks in part because of the OL. In part because of Howell. And in large part because of the play calling and game situation. 
 

Our defense is leaving the offense out to dry and is a bigger problem than any of the offensive pieces, though they aren’t blame free.

[Riggo#44]

Defense sucks, but how did we have 84 total yards in the first half? 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Defense sucks, but how did we have 84 total yards in the first half? 

Because the offensive line also isn’t great. And we were already behind big so we went into throw mode.

[Thinking Skins]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:23 AM, Koolblue13 said:

It's not just that we don't run, it's the way we run and when we do it. I bet at least half of those runs were Robinson B gap on first down. Our run game is too predictable.

 

I think it was the second quarter when we were finally calling the dink and dunk rhythm building offense, with a couple runs and moving down the field and then we took two or three homerun shots that the receivers dropped and the offense stalled again.  

Robinson doesn't fit the style of offense that we have. We need a faster back that can create space for himself. A Skip Hicks type guy. Or Kapri Bibbs. We've got two power guys and a big WR. The ones with vision have no speed and the one with speed has no vision. 

 

I'd be searching the waiver wire for a scat back. 

[Thinking Skins]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:05 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

The problem is that the HC and DC changed their philosophy. They want turnovers. They were preaching that all off-season. They drafted Forbes over Gonzalez for this reason. 

 

So what happened? We're playing more man. We're going after double moves. And getting beat for these deep routes, exposing our safeties. 

 

Previous years we were all about fundamentals and third down percentage and playing zones and stopping the big plays. We'd have problems like WJ3 or Collins coming into the defense and having problems learning it. But they were playing as a unit. Now they're chasing stats. 

 

That's the problem. Ron and JDR has them chasing the big plays. He needs to get them back to fundamentals. The turnovers will come and if he doesn't it's going to ruin the season and maybe their careers (it's already ruined his)

[Thinking Skins]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:35 AM, clskinsfan said:

While embarrassing, what happened last night was probably the best thing that could happen for the long term health of this franchise. Many of us have been calling for a complete and total overhaul of this franchise from the ground up. Events like last night bring that closer to happening. We have a QB, some weapons and a couple of pieces on the DL. Tear the rest of it down and rebuild it the right way. 

 

On 10/6/2023 at 11:36 AM, skinsfan66 said:

The running game got blown up by the Bears early, 3rd and 1 Gates gets blown up. 2 -3 and outs while the D gives up 17. Can't be balanced if you cannot block. Bears were in backfield all night.

Yeah, I think I'm in favor of benching Gates. 

[Thinking Skins]

On 10/6/2023 at 12:03 PM, KDawg said:

Why keep using the verbiage "saddle the new regime with Sam Howell"?

 

If Howell is the QB here next year he can't be "saddled". He would have to be chosen by the new regime as a stop gap type or as the franchise guy to be the QB. It can only be saddling if someone forces the new regime to keep him.

 

Who's going to force that change?

 

Harris likely wouldn't. No one else is here to do so. 

 

Snyder saddled Rivera. Snyder is gone. 

So if Harris makes a decision to get rid of Sam, then I'm putting him like Dan with Brad. We have finally solved the we QB problem let's not go backwards simply because he's not the guy you fell in love with. 

 

What I'd like to find is a new coach (maybe EB but let's lot limit it) who likes Howell similar to other teams with QBs in place and they6 to build around him. But honestly I'd say nothing else is sacred. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

So if Harris makes a decision to get rid of Sam, then I'm putting him like Dan with Brad. We have finally solved the we QB problem let's not go backwards simply because he's not the guy you fell in love with. 

 

What I'd like to find is a new coach (maybe EB but let's lot limit it) who likes Howell similar to other teams with QBs in place and they6 to build around him. But honestly I'd say nothing else is sacred. 

 

I want the best coach we can find. If he likes Sam and wants to keep him that is the best path forward. If he doesn't and wants his own QB I get it. I think that's a mistake but... 

[Thinking Skins]

On 10/6/2023 at 12:13 PM, Warhead36 said:

Whatever we do, I just want for once our entire team to be on the same page. Ownership, FO, head coach. If EVERYONE is on board with Howell then fine. If EVERYONE is on board with moving on and getting their own guy to develop, then I'm fine with that too.

 

The major downside of keeping Howell is that we've already burned through half his rookie contract at the end of this year. And we'll need to build up the roster. That reduces our window to contend big time. Meanwhile if we draft a QB in the 1st round you get a four year window(five with the fifth year option). And you're probably getting someone with more raw talent and upside(especially if its Williams or Maye).

But the benefit is that we're seeing the growth right now. He's putting this team on his back and driving us down the field game after game. He's looking like the second best QB in that draft behind Purdy. We're developing him

 

Any QB we draft, we have to do that with, and possibly compete with Howell. And they may not be good (see Jones, see z Fields initially, see Ridder, see Willis, etc). We know Howell is good. That should be enough to say let's go and just build a team around him. 

[Thinking Skins]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I want the best coach we can find. If he likes Sam and wants to keep him that is the best path forward. If he doesn't and wants his own QB I get it. I think that's a mistake but... 

I don't know if we've talked this, it's been so long but I'm a players above coaches person. Especially at QB. So when you have a potentially special QB you do everything to keep them and try to get a good up and coming OC to pair with them as the coach. 

 

Sam still needs to prove he belongs in that sphere I stated, but if he does do this year, I think keeping him becomes a much higher priority than getting a coach with a higher name (say a Jim Harbaugh) who may want to trade him and bring in a vet. 

[Riggo#44]

25 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So if Harris makes a decision to get rid of Sam

 

Based on all things we've heard, it wouldn't be Harris getting rid of Sam. It'd be the GM or coach.

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Based on all things we've heard, it wouldn't be Harris getting rid of Sam. It'd be the GM or coach.

Maybe. But until the moment comes, I'm calling it his decision

[Thinking Skins]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:20 PM, FootballZombie said:

 

Nah that tweet is kinda misleading. It is a poor example of the message its trying to convey.

 

While Howell didn't take sacks in the last drive of two games we were leading... he couldn't.

In both games the final drive was comprised entirely of run plays, so the problem w/ taking sacks simply can not manifest.

 

If we did that more during the course of the game itself we would see a similar effect. Can't get sacked if you don't throw the ball.

So. What I was saying is that Howell in late game situations is being misused. It's very similar to what Charles Leno said. He's taken a lot of sacks in these games when teams can just tee off on him like the bills and bears. Both those games I was shocked when I saw the score late went to take a piss came back and saw that Howell had been sacked like 2 or 3 more times. 

 

The eagles game is different because we had a chance to win it but we don't need to be chasing 3 points in a 37-0 game like that. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

So, after the game on Thursday, I decided I needed a little mini-bye week also, so I didn't listen to any reaction podcasts, read any articles, or even sign into ES until Sunday.  And, honestly, I posted a few things, and then signed out again. 

 

I'm not going back through the 17 pages of this thread to see all the things which were discussed, but I want to opine on a couple of things.  Which almost certainly have been covered in some way.  

 

1. The whole "we ran 55 times in a row, EB's an idiot."  Let's parse that real quick:

Drive 1: Run (5 yards), Pass (4 yards) Run (-1 yards) Punt

Drive 2: Pass (turned scramble) (3 yards), PENALTY (false start) 2nd and 12 Run (1 yard), Pass (sack for 0 yards) Punt. 

Let's stop there first:  Through 6 plays, we called 3 pass, 3 run, and one of the runs was on 2nd and 12.  3 rushes for a total of 5 yards.  

Start of drive 3, down 10-0.

Drive 3:  Run (2 yards), Pass (6 yards), Pass (3 yards, 1st down), Pass (9 yards), Run (2 yards, 1st down), Pass (3 yards), Pass (11 yards, 1st down), Pass (incomplete), Run (1 yard), 3rd and 9 turned to 3rd and 4 for defensive off-sides, Pass (incomplete) FG.

So, through 3 drives, we had 6 rushes for a grand total of 10 yards.  And half of those came on the first play of the game.  

 

From drives 3 on, they didn't call a single run play.  Drive 3 was an INT.  Drive 4 started down 20-3.  

 

Would I have liked to see a run play mixed in somewhere along the way in the second half?  Yes.  I called for it at the goal line, but we scored anyway.  Do I think 55 straight passes is a little bananas?  Yes.

 

BUT.  The run game was absolutely being stuffed, and every time we ran it was a give-up play that resulted in no appreciable yards.  EB figured this out, and from Drive 3 on, went almost exclusively with the pass, and managed to get the team back into the game.

 

Would a run or two been good?  Yes.  However, 5 straight rushes for 1 yard per rush is going to get you thinking maybe you should do something else.  Or, at least, it should.  Because keeping doing what is clearly not working is stupid.  I get with "sticking with the run."  But in order to do that, you've got to at least approximate 3 yards a run.  We were getting 1 yard a rush.  Blame whoever you like for that, but that's the case.  

 

I fault EB a little for not coming back to it after we'd passed 30 straight times, because it might have worked as a change-up.  But I don't fault him for abandoning something they certainly tried to establish early, and had it fail.

 

2. I have no issues with play calling from drives 3 - 10.  Pass on every down, I don't really care. The last 2 drives of the game were an abomination of coaching.  Fireable offense.  As Tony Kornheiser put it, a "Gots to go situation."  The game was out of had, we started drive 11 down 37-20 with 4:09 remaining.  In a game in October.  This is where I fire Ron.  He needed to either pull Sam to protect him from hits, or run the ball and end the game.  You don't do that in the playoffs.  You do it in a game in October. This isn't play calling.  This is game/team management.  Sam took 2 additional sacks for no reason.  And this is VERY different than in Buffalo, where they wanted to have Sam work through some things.  Sam was playing well.  He didn't need to work through anything.  Pull him or run the ball and punt, and call it a day.  

 

More than anything else, this made me absolutely furious.  Those 2 drives were criminal incompetence at the highest order, and if I could have fired Ron after the game, I would have.  And not for the rest of it, but for THIS ONE TRANSGRESSION. 

 

3. The off-season was an abomination.  The draft was atrocious.  It might end up being worse than "The draft we do not speak of." (Hint: we took "the player we do not mention" who's nickname is a hair grooming implement in that draft.).  I'm not going to say any player, right now, we drafted is going to be a bust.  No idea.  Too soon.  BUT literally none of them are contributing at all, and the one who is playing is getting beat like a drum.  You can't have that.  You need some contributions from your draft class. We're getting none.

 

4. What in the hell is going on when the secondary was playing together last season, at least Fuller, St. Juste, Curl and Forrest, and they can't seem to get on the same page?  Percy Butler seems totally lost all the time.  Quan Martin can't get on the field, and the players in front of him are sucking.  You add one guy, Forbes, to the mix of starters, and the whole thing falls apart? Really?  That's abysmal. There is NO REASON for these guys to be this bad.  None.

 

5.  I like Sam.  Kid's a gamer.  He's going to have a career as a starter in the NFL.  Looks the part.  Has to speed up his decision making.  Which, I think, he will.  He's had 6 starts.  I think he's going to prove to be in that 10-15 range of QB, like the Kirk Cousins, Jimmy G's, Derrick Carr's of the world, by the end of the season.  I think he's close now.  If he could stop taking sacks at an alarming rate, he'd be there already.  

 

6.  The OL is woeful.  I wanted to see how it played out.  The first few weeks, eh, who knows.  Some up, some down, and Sam was holding the ball longer than he is now.

 

But they've got to get better.  Interestingly, the guy who everybody was most worried about, Charles, seems to not be the weakest link. Wylie needs to spend some time on the bench and they need to try Lucas in at RT and see if that's helpful. 

 

7. Maybe having no OL coach until the week before camp is part of the issue, maybe a new system for an essentially rookie QB is part of the issue, but they damn well better figure out how to pick up blitzers to eliminate free rushers OR Sam needs to know when he's hot and get rid of the ball.  It happens 2-3 times a game when the defense does something, literally everybody is confused and a guy runs up and gives Sam a big bear hug without being touched.  That has to end.  I put more of that on Sam, because he's got to know where his free rusher's are.  But whatever it is, it's a problem, and it need fixed NOW.  Because we're not playing Joe Barry this season, and he's literally the only DC in the NFL who wouldn't be able to figure that out.  Mike Nolan would be the other but he's been forced into retirement for being terrible at his job.  We're going to see it week in and week out until they figure out how to block it up or take advantage of it.  

 

In summary:

- Ron should be fired for team management in the last 2 drives.

- The secondary being as bad as it is is a complete mystery, shouldn't be the case

- Draft "best available" all you want, but you need SOME contribution from your draft class, and we're getting none.

- Drives 3-10, shove the Run/Pass ratio criticism up your buttocks

- OL is what it is, which isn't good enough.  

- Figure out how to pick up a blitz. That's everybody, not just OL.  

- I like Sam.

 

 

[redskinss]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:07 PM, KDawg said:

I’m usually excited for Sunday football. The same today… until I realize we already played… and we lost to the Bears.

 

 when we win early like Thursday or a 1 pm game I very much enjoy the later games and when we lose I don't as much.

When we get comically and embarrassingly lambasted like we did on Thursday i lose all taste for football for at least a week.

I didn't even watch football until yesterday evening I went fishing. 

 

I will say this though the Sunday night game was very therapeutic. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

The problem is that the HC and DC changed their philosophy. They want turnovers. They were preaching that all off-season. They drafted Forbes over Gonzalez for this reason. 

 

So what happened? We're playing more man. We're going after double moves. And getting beat for these deep routes, exposing our safeties. 

 

Previous years we were all about fundamentals and third down percentage and playing zones and stopping the big plays. We'd have problems like WJ3 or Collins coming into the defense and having problems learning it. But they were playing as a unit. Now they're chasing stats. 

 

That's the problem. Ron and JDR has them chasing the big plays. He needs to get them back to fundamentals. The turnovers will come and if he doesn't it's going to ruin the season and maybe their careers (it's already ruined his)

 

 

 

[RandyHolt]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:07 PM, Riggo#44 said:

Defense sucks, but how did we have 84 total yards in the first half? 

Easy. The Bears attacked at the LOS blitzed a ton which stuffed our run game and played tight man. Our WRs were BLANKETED in the first half. Their's? Were wide open.

 

The Bears dictated from the toss and had our team on its heels. Elected to receive got the lead and attacked. The only reason we were in it was they went prevent to start the 2nd half and gifted us 14 points to milk the clock. After that it was check down ****ty and why our backs and TEs logged ~200 receiving yards. Maybe the other reason we were in it? Their run game killed us but they lost all their backs to injury.  They had to use a fullback which amazingly we did stop.  Before that they were converting 3rd and longs by running. I haven't seen that in a long time.

 

As far as I am concerned playing heavy man/matchup zone 10 yds off isn't the same as tight man pressing at the LOS. JDR has his DBs so far off the LOS its easy for QBs kill us short or on double moves. Consistently week after week and Fields said as much.

Edited October 9, 2023 by RandyHolt