Ball Security Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: Thats fine. Then we get Williams. Exactly. That’s why I’m having trouble getting behind a trade up to one. If the new coach is excited about both, stay put and keep the extra picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: Thats fine. Then we get Williams. Which is why it’s imperative we get the #2 overall pick. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 44 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, mistertim said: This is demonstrably false when it comes to every position other than QB. There is ONE team that has been a contender year after year without a top notch long term franchise QB and that's SF. They're the exception, not the rule, because they have one of the most creative offensive minds in football as well as consistently dominant defenses. The teams that are contenders year in and year out have top QBs. That's the common denominator, and that's why you always weigh QB higher than any other position when grading draft prospects. Believe it or not, quarterbacks are football players. The idea that a philosophy of drafting BPA somehow means ignoring the QB position is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Penix Jr is one Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa sack away from retirement. Don't see why any team would take that kind of risk in the 1st round much less top 10 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Cold Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, CapsSkins said: Penix Jr is one Myles Garrett or Nick Bosa sack away from retirement. Don't see why any team would take that kind of risk in the 1st round much less top 10 To be fair, aren’t all the QBs? Or any player for that matter. It’s a physical game and injuries happen 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 1 minute ago, Stone Cold said: To be fair, aren’t all the QBs? Or any player for that matter. It’s a physical game and injuries happen Are you aware Penix has torn his right ACL twice and had two surgeries on his throwing shoulder already? Edited January 3 by CapsSkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Is there any QB that skyrocketed up draft boards at the end of the season that panned out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Cold Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, CapsSkins said: Are you aware Penix has tore his right ACL twice and had two surgeries on his throwing shoulder already? Terry Allen had a nice run with us after his knee was destroyed and replaced twice. Injuries happen. I’d applaud his resilience instead of saying he’s an injury waiting to happen. I mean….every player is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, MisterPinstripe said: Is there any QB that skyrocketed up draft boards at the end of the season that panned out? Trey Lance…I didn’t read the second part of your sentence. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Just listened to a NY Giants reporter, he has the vibe that the team wants a QB and he goes Schoen is aggressive when he wants a player and don't be surprised if they trade up. He mentioned Drake Maye. I know this draft season the Giants kept sending armies of scouts along with Schoen going personally to watch Maye I would make that trade in a heartbeat. We need as many picks as possible with too many holes to fill. The more draft picks you have increases your chance of success (reduces the impact of a bust). Plus I'm not sold on Maye or the other QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Just listened to a NY Giants reporter, he has the vibe that the team wants a QB and he goes Schoen is aggressive when he wants a player and don't be surprised if they trade up. He mentioned Drake Maye. I know this draft season the Giants kept sending armies of scouts along with Schoen going personally to watch Maye Yeah, none of that is all that surprising. Still, they are looking at a distinct possibility that there is gonna be nothing they can do about it. They could pick 5th and the top 3 teams are going QB and the best they can do is pick whomever they have 4th. If those top 3 want those QBs, they take them and there is virtually nothing you can do to get them off those picks. Some people here and other fans may think one of them may take a bounty to move off the guy they want and take another one, but that's really just not how it works with QBs. The only way of course, is if one of those teams actually like someone else (Penix, or McCarthy, say) more than the top guys. Edited January 3 by Rufus T Firefly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: Are you aware Penix has torn his right ACL twice and had two surgeries on his throwing shoulder already? Are you aware that Penix has been healthy and had no issues or injury concerns for 2 years all while playing some very good defenses? And Burrow was relatively healthy in college and has dealt with various injuries during his NFL career. Its a crapshoot. Edited January 3 by ThatNFLChick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 28 minutes ago, Number 44 said: Believe it or not, quarterbacks are football players. The idea that a philosophy of drafting BPA somehow means ignoring the QB position is ridiculous. Pure unweighted BPA usually does exclude QBs, just from a mathematical perspective, because there are at least 11 other positions in the sport. That's why pure BPA without any weighing of positional value and need is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 12 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Are you aware that Penix has been healthy and had no issues or injury concerns for 2 years all while playing some very good defenses? And Burrow was relatively healthy in college and has dealt with various injuries during his NFL career. Its a crapshoot. You could invest your money in blue chip stocks and they could grow, or they could completely tank. Likewise, you could spend that money on PowerBall tickets and they could win or not. So it doesn't really matter which option you choose. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: Are you aware that Penix has been healthy and had no issues or injury concerns for 2 years all while playing some very good defenses? And Burrow was relatively healthy in college and has dealt with various injuries during his NFL career. Its a crapshoot. Staying healthy vs kids is different than staying healthy vs the likes of Bosa, Aaron Donald, Maxx Crosby, and premiere NFL pass rushers and DLinemen who are grown men. Not to mention a 17 game season vs. 12/13. Obviously a player can be healthy in college and then get injured in the pros. But how many players with serious and recurring injuries in college stayed healthy in the NFL? I'd bet relatively few, if any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvernon Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 On 1/2/2024 at 7:05 AM, Skinsinparadise said: He'd be awesome. He's a great player. He's my favorite player in the draft. But just like having Trent, Sean Taylor, Portis, S. Moss, etc stars get lost in the sauce without having that QB. Arguably the most talented WR of all time, Calvin Johnson, megatron, didn't change the fortune of the Lions. He ultimately retired in part because the Lions just didn't win. Some say get the other stuff first and then find that QB. The challenge for that is the other stuff is easier to find. Get the QB when you got a chance. This team is rarely in position to shop at the Tiffany's line of the QB aisle. We are at it now, to skip it and just assume we will back there at the right time or find a diamond in the rough is a big assumption -- the last 30 some odd years shows the odds are against us that we will find the QB when the time is "right". https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/why-calvin-johnson-retire Between 2007 and 2015, Calvin Johnson was among the top receivers in the NFL. He was one of the Detroit Lions' most reliable players in team history. He provided them with the spectacular playmaking presence they have missed since Barry Sanders left the team. Johnson said that his decision to leave the NFL after nine years was influenced by the team's inability to challenge for honors. Ok, but we know the Lions were regarded as one of worst drafting teams. Millen has a brutal record. Stafford and Calvin lifted up the Lions for years. I have a hard time with those comparisons where the players were elite and the FO failed to be even average. Barry Sanders famously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 31 minutes ago, Stone Cold said: Terry Allen had a nice run with us after his knee was destroyed and replaced twice. Injuries happen. I’d applaud his resilience instead of saying he’s an injury waiting to happen. I mean….every player is No. Every player isnt. And no player is getting drafted in the top ten with his injury history and age. I will come back and eat crow if I am wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: Staying healthy vs kids is different than staying healthy vs the likes of Bosa, Aaron Donald, Maxx Crosby, and premiere NFL pass rushers and DLinemen who are grown men. Not to mention a 17 game season vs. 12/13. Obviously a player can be healthy in college and then get injured in the pros. But how many players with serious and recurring injuries in college stayed healthy in the NFL? I'd bet relatively few, if any. Tua? He's had some concussions in the NFL but nothing like the injuries that piled up while he was in college. Gronk had extensive back surgery in college. Frank Gore had 2 ACL injuries in college also Matthew Stafford had a ton of injuries in college. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said: Tua? He's had some concussions in the NFL but nothing like the injuries that piled up while he was in college. Gronk had extensive back surgery in college. Frank Gore had 2 ACL injuries in college also Matthew Stafford had a ton of injuries in college. Tua had just the one hip injury. Gore tore his ACL once. Stafford never missed a game in college. Penix has *two* ACL tears and two throwing shoulder injuries already. It's a far more extensive injury history than the guys you listed. We'll see where he goes in a few months. But I would be stunned if someone used a top 10 pick on him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Prior reconstructions are in fact less stable and more susceptible to re-injury. They are also a problem with arthritis and stiffness as a person ages. So Penix will be up against it for his medicals with longevity in mind. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: Tua had just the one hip injury. Gore tore his ACL once. Stafford never missed a game in college. Penix has *two* ACL tears and two throwing shoulder injuries already. It's a far more extensive injury history than the guys you listed. We'll see where he goes in a few months. But I would be stunned if someone used a top 10 pick on him. Exactly. Plus all of those guys were younger than Penix when they entered the draft. Tua was only 22 and had ONE season ending injury. Penix will be 24 and has had THREE season ending injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Ball Security said: Exactly. That’s why I’m having trouble getting behind a trade up to one. If the new coach is excited about both, stay put and keep the extra picks. I saw a great mock today where we trade back with New England and then trade up to #1 with the Bears and end up with Williams while New England gets Maye. How smart would that be if we could pull that off????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Not the worst outcome considering the trade haul: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Penix scares the daylights out of me. He's super talented and fun to watch, but good lord those are scary ass injuries. Two ACL tears on the same leg and a dislocated throwing shoulder? On top of that he'll be 24 when the season starts so two or three years older than most rookie QBs. I might consider him if we traded down into the 10-15 range for an enormous haul of picks but I'd still be super concerned about his durability. As @rumplestilskinnoted, those injuries and reconstructions pretty much always end up with an overall less stable structure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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