2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Caleb Williams.  You've got to take the chance on him if he's there for you.  He has the potential to be the best player in the NFL one day.

Being the best player does not mean you win games without a team and coaches around you. What would TUA be without T.Hill and the RB's a bust, like he was heading towards before the arrival? He most likely would have been a bust here too. Herbert has been tossed around like a rag doll and not to mention he lost Mike W this year and has not looked like himself. He may have been a bust here too, maybe not.  You can get the best player in a draft anywhere (Brady, Montana). Is S.F. the best team with a QB picked last of his draft class, would he bust here?  

[Darrell Green Fan]

This may belong in the draft thread but no discussion of drafting Harrison?  I am convinced the Bears and Pats will go with the 2 QBs in some order. The Cards I believe will take a player who they believe can be another Calvin Johnson. But if we end up picking above the Cards (I believe they need to win one game as long as we lose out) then the choice would be Harrison or Daniels and it would be foolish IMO to take a LT with such talent available. 

 

Either pull the trigger on one of the 2 or trade back, get a future 1st round pick among the teams who really want to take a shot on Daniels, and run it back with Howell with the draft capital to move up to try to find the QB next year if Sam is not the answer.  

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Its good summary from a Commanders fan who is active on twitter, draft nerd type who goes to the Senior Bowl among other things.  And he's been a Howell guy.  Again its not about Howell in a vaccum.

 

 

Maybe you do take Marvin Harrison if he is going to make your team better than the QB will. Tua was crap without T.Hill and the the others and he would mostly busted here for sure. Miami just lost their center and other OL let's see how he finishes. They build a good team around him and Coach. Herbert who I wish they would have taken team is falling apart, Mike W. was lost for the year and seams like he is always on the Run. Talk of the coach being fired. Maybe we should have taken Thomas?  

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Being the best player does not mean you win games without a team and coaches around you. What would TUA be without T.Hill and the RB's a bust, like he was heading towards before the arrival? He most likely would have been a bust here too. Herbert has been tossed around like a rag doll and not to mention he lost Mike W this year and has not looked like himself. He may have been a bust here too, maybe not.  You can get the best player in a draft anywhere (Brady, Montana). Is S.F. the best team with a QB picked last of his draft class, would he bust here?  

 

It's not an either or.  You get the best player in the NFL and it's easier to put a great team and good coaching around him.  That player elevates your entire franchise and makes everyone's job easier.

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Caleb Williams.  You've got to take the chance on him if he's there for you.  He has the potential to be the best player in the NFL one day.

Yeah that’s a no brainer, you’d simply have to take that option. 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Let's go put him on Cooper Kupp with no safety help

 

Maybe it’s just to make Forbes heavier? He’ll be looking like the tin man by week 18.

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, illone said:

Howell should fetch a 2nd rounder at this point dudes. 

Wont shock me if new gm wants to hit the reset button on everything including rookie qb contract. 

 

He won't. The 5th round draft capital and lack of a 5th year rookie option hurts his trade value as does his middling to below average and worse current metrics. 

If a team tries to trade for him, they'll be moving a late 3rd to a 5th, I can't see any possibility the offer is a 1st or a 2nd especially in a potentially glutted market. 

[skinsfan66]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's not an either or.  You get the best player in the NFL and it's easier to put a great team and good coaching around him.  That player elevates your entire franchise and makes everyone's job easier.

My point is, it could be Harrison,TE, LT, It's not just the QB being a slam dunk, we busted there atleast 3 times too. I get the feeling no one thinks it can happen with these QB's.  And like I said before T.Hill makes Tua, looks like he is no longer a bust. Mahones a little less without him. Would Harrison make the team better with Howell? Who knows? 

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

This may belong in the draft thread but no discussion of drafting Harrison?  I am convinced the Bears and Pats will go with the 2 QBs in some order. The Cards I believe will take a player who they believe can be another Calvin Johnson. But if we end up picking above the Cards (I believe they need to win one game as long as we lose out) then the choice would be Harrison or Daniels and it would be foolish IMO to take a LT with such talent available. 

 

Either pull the trigger on one of the 2 or trade back, get a future 1st round pick among the teams who really want to take a shot on Daniels, and run it back with Howell with the draft capital to move up to try to find the QB next year if Sam is not the answer.  

 

 

 

Plenty of talk about Harrison including on this thread.  If I had to pick one slam dunk player in the top 5 aside from QB, its him.

 

As for the 2025 draft at QB, I wish I was excited about it, right now it looks "meh".  

 

 

3 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I get the feeling no one thinks it can happen with these QB's. 

 

No one thinks it can happen with these QBs?  Not sure what that means.  Underwhelming prospects or no one on this thread thinks much of them?

Edited December 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep.

 

Guys like Todd Husak, Jordan Palmer and the slew of others get forgotten because they are forgettable.  I seriously doubt if you surrounded Todd Husak with weapons he would be playing like Brock Purdy.   Purdy is a unicorn.  That's not a debatable point.  The facts bear that out.

 

If someone wants to argue that if we keep taking a Chris Hakel, Cory Conklin, Nat Sudfeld on and on every year within 15 years or so we might nail it.  I can ride with that.  But the idea of hey let the Bears take Caleb Williams and we will instead take Devin Leary and surround him with weapons and lets see who comes out on top -- its silly.

 

The other one that's silly IMO is arguing all the drafts for QBs are apples to apples.  If people want to argue that there are no guarantees and a ballyhooed QB might fail -- yes, that's true.  But its talked about to death this draft versus another draft as to position strength at EVERY position let alone just QB.  It's also not a debatable point.   

 

if i am at name this random city on this random street and i want to eat at a good restaurant, I'll take the best one I can find.  That doesn't mind that the restaurant is equivalent to the best I can find in Manhattan.   And the idea that I went to the best restaurant I can find that day in that context, doesn't mean that I thought it was the eqiuivalent of name that Michelin star restaurant.

 

So the idea that the Titans for example took Mariota high doesn't mean they thought at the time he was the next Andrew Luck.  it means they needed a QB, they are picking high in the draft, lets just take the best one available and hope for the best.

My only quibble would be I'd trade Mariota for Wentz and Goff. Wentz and Goff, to me anyway, were the ultimate wishcasting at the top of a class guys. Winston's profile coming out of FSU was flat out ridiculous, and he was accepted to Stanford, so the dude's smart, whatever is wrong between his ears isn't simple intelligence, it's probably "judgement or intuition or something". Winston was smart and toolsy. Mariota was a really good prospect, but out of a suspect conference, in a gimmicky system, so there were warnings he'd be just very average to below, but he came in quite interesting and w/a good profile.

Wentz was entirely projection out of NDSU just like Lance after him. He was all tools, but very sketchy projection, and Goff, as a Cal alum, I can tell you, was a solid prospect, but in a normal class he was a mid 2nd rounder, at least to me. Physical tools, sure, but he was nothing like Rodgers. Rodgers was sick, set a record against USC, nearly beating one of their best teams ever. Goff took Cal to a bowl game (I think a win) which is hard as hell for Cal, but he was a Marin County kid, with a good profile, but nothing special about him. Those guys going 1-2 weren't Bortles/Gabbert level crazy to me, but we're close to that. Never understood it.

 

Agree w/everything else. 

 

Little side note. I remember Conklin being the last of the great backups after Humphries. He really looked good in flashes in the early nineties. Him failing completely always bummed me out, but the early nineties were a limited information era, and being in the bay, I had no idea what went wrong (similar to Charlie Brown going from All Pro to out of the league in like 2.5 years). 

[Idaho fan]

Wait wait wait… Guys guys guys!! Has Ron announced that we are eliminated from playoff contention yet!?   Nooo I didn’t think so.  Any talk of our pick is really premature at this point.  I’m going wait until I hear Ron tell me we have been eliminated before I get my hopes up about an early first round draft pick. 
 

sheeesh.  

[Stone Cold]

12 minutes ago, Idaho fan said:

Wait wait wait… Guys guys guys!! Has Ron announced that we are eliminated from playoff contention yet!?   Nooo I didn’t think so.  Any talk of our pick is really premature at this point.  I’m going wait until I hear Ron tell me we have been eliminated before I get my hopes up about an early first round draft pick. 
 

sheeesh.  

In all fairness, you ain’t wrong.  😕
 

buttttt….from the looks of everything, it appears off-season plans are made.  We don’t have anyone vying for bonus pay realistically.  Annnnnd, we’re the get right team.  
 

I think we’re done.  It shows and it’s not cool to see

Edited December 14, 2023 by Stone Cold

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Being the best player does not mean you win games without a team and coaches around you. What would TUA be without T.Hill and the RB's a bust, like he was heading towards before the arrival? He most likely would have been a bust here too. Herbert has been tossed around like a rag doll and not to mention he lost Mike W this year and has not looked like himself. He may have been a bust here too, maybe not.  You can get the best player in a draft anywhere (Brady, Montana). Is S.F. the best team with a QB picked last of his draft class, would he bust here?  

There's no other way to say this so I'll just say it: you are correct. Put Tua on the Commanders and he may be already retired for medical reasons. You also got me thinking, what would Montana have done under Gibbs with the Hogs and fun bunch? How many rings would Gibbs have won? 

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

He won't. The 5th round draft capital and lack of a 5th year rookie option hurts his trade value as does his middling to below average and worse current metrics. 

If a team tries to trade for him, they'll be moving a late 3rd to a 5th, I can't see any possibility the offer is a 1st or a 2nd especially in a potentially glutted market. 

The only way you get anything higher than a 3rd would be a desperate team, losing their starter in training camp. 3rd or 4th rounder is all you’ll get for Sam.

[Warhead36]

14 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The only way you get anything higher than a 3rd would be a desperate team, losing their starter in training camp. 3rd or 4th rounder is all you’ll get for Sam.

That or EB gets a job somewhere(either HC or OC)with a team that needs a QB and they decide to get a guy who is young and has experience in the EB system. But even then, I don't see a team giving up more than a 3rd.

[actorguy1]

The Draft Paloffs is Now!!

[dunfer]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The only way you get anything higher than a 3rd would be a desperate team, losing their starter in training camp. 3rd or 4th rounder is all you’ll get for Sam.

thats just old school redskins loser talk. We couldve gotten a first for kirk if bruce and dan werent shortsighted. Sam for his rookie year with a new oc and **** OL, can zip the ball into tight coverage and doesnt get hurt running through entire defenses. Sam is going to be a playoff / lombardi contender on the right team. His worth is as much as any green qb coming out of college....being proven vs the extra cheap years

Edited December 14, 2023 by dunfer

[Warhead36]

There are a lot of teams that will be in need of a QB. Howell for whatever its worth has had some moments where he's looked real good. If a team that needs a QB but isn't picking in the top 5 or 10 makes a good offer, you have to listen to it.

[dunfer]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

There are a lot of teams that will be in need of a QB. Howell for whatever its worth has had some moments where he's looked real good. If a team that needs a QB but isn't picking in the top 5 or 10 makes a good offer, you have to listen to it.

Its not moments, its the majority of his time under center that looks good...well shotgun i guess

[Conn]

12 hours ago, djpapeleta360 said:

Maybe it would be a blessing in disguise. It will stop all this qb talk and we can draft a linemen or Bowers.

The more I think about it the more I want us to win instead of tanking. All the best qbs off the board and build around Howell.

That’s a pretty sad outlook tbh. That you would prefer us to have less value in our pocket and fewer options under a new FO just because you’re afraid of some of the potential results. That’s a lot of faith to put into your own opinion, to be so sure that you’re right that you’d prefer the team have less options so that they avoid the temptation of the options you don’t approve of. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Conn

[dunfer]

17 minutes ago, Conn said:

That’s a pretty sad outlook tbh. That you would prefer us to have less value in our pocket and fewer options under a new FO just because you’re afraid of some of the potential results. That’s a lot of faith to put into your own opinion, to be so sure that you’re right that you’d prefer the team have less options so that they avoid the temptation of the options you don’t approve of. 

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush point of view. Nobody is afraid of drafting a qb better than sam.

 

Whats the more likely outcome though? You draft a qb that is better than our current qb...or you draft a tackle wr, or te that is better than those current positions

Edited December 14, 2023 by dunfer

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I’ll just say this, if the new GM is ready to give up on Sam because he thinks he isn’t good, and use our high first round pick on a quarterback when we have more glaring needs, he better be right… About both.

[Conn]

44 minutes ago, dunfer said:

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush point of view. Nobody is afraid of drafting a qb better than sam.

 

Whats the more likely outcome though? You draft a qb that is better than our current qb...or you draft a tackle wr, or te that is better than those current positions

Okay. And I can draft a Long Snapper that is guaranteed better than Cheeseman at that spot too. That wouldn’t be how I’d evaluate the usage of that resource. 
 

I’m not even against using that pick on Harrison, Bowers, trading down for an OT, etc. It’s the idea that people are SO sold on Howell that messes with me. 

 

I’ve made extensive posts recently about the mindset of already valuing Howell as the “bird in hand”. A lot of it is projecting and wishful thinking. The idea that it’s a longshot that one of these top 3 QB prospects is an upgrade on Howell is wildly hopeful. People just assume he’s a playoff QB or better with more talent around him and don’t acknowledge that they just might be wrong. As if it’s not a strong possibility. 

[Conn]

13 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I’ll just say this, if the new GM is ready to give up on Sam because he thinks he isn’t good, and use our high first round pick on a quarterback when we have more glaring needs, he better be right… About both.

Okay. But if you believe that, then it has to be equally true that the new GM who bets on the mid round pick over putting his stamp on the organization with a rare top-5 shot at a premium QB prospect in offseason one had better be right…about both.

 

It goes both ways. 
 

If you recoiled at what I just posted then you aren’t evaluating it rationally. 

[dunfer]

39 minutes ago, Conn said:

Okay. And I can draft a Long Snapper that is guaranteed better than Cheeseman at that spot too. That wouldn’t be how I’d evaluate the usage of that resource. 
 

I’m not even against using that pick on Harrison, Bowers, trading down for an OT, etc. It’s the idea that people are SO sold on Howell that messes with me. 

 

I’ve made extensive posts recently about the mindset of already valuing Howell as the “bird in hand”. A lot of it is projecting and wishful thinking. The idea that it’s a longshot that one of these top 3 QB prospects is an upgrade on Howell is wildly hopeful. People just assume he’s a playoff QB or better with more talent around him and don’t acknowledge that they just might be wrong. As if it’s not a strong possibility. 

A franchise tackle or Harrison vs a qb competition is exactly how I would evaluate the usage of that resource 

[illone]

15 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

The Rams game is interesting because on paper I think the teams are fairly close. 

what paper are you reading and why are you reading it while on LSD?
 

jk😎 but for real, share the paper you’re reading.