2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[sjinhan]

5 hours ago, dunfer said:

A franchise tackle or Harrison vs a qb competition is exactly how I would evaluate the usage of that resource 

I say if we pick a QB in the first round then we offload Howell for whatever we can get.  I would think he is at minimum worth a 3rd or higher

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 hours ago, djpapeleta360 said:

Maybe it would be a blessing in disguise. It will stop all this qb talk and we can draft a linemen or Bowers.

The more I think about it the more I want us to win instead of tanking. All the best qbs off the board and build around Howell.

We want the highest pick possible simply because that gives us the best chance to win long term. The new FO will be better positioned. Yes I want to build around Howell and think a new FO could salivate at the idea of a Top 3 pick, $100m cap space and a franchise caliber QB on a rookie deal. If the NFL consensus is truly that Sam is the real deal, and the new regime reflects that, they’ll build around him. 
 

The draft capital you could get by trading back from #3 for a QB needy team could set us up for years of success. Going from 3 -> 6 and adding a 2 and a future 1 … versus winning another meaningless game and drafting there for nothing?

[philibusters]

5 hours ago, illone said:

what paper are you reading and why are you reading it while on LSD?
 

jk😎 but for real, share the paper you’re reading. 

 

Here is the Rams depth chart... 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/lar/los-angeles-rams

 

Yeah they have some really good players like Aaron Donald, Matthew Stafford, Cooper Kupp, Puka Nacua.  They have a couple solid veterans in Robbie Havenstein and Jordan Fuller.  But most of the other starters are JAG's.  Albeit a couple of their young guys like Kobie Turner are showing some promise.  But you look at their starting lineup and they have a lot of JAG's.   But their getting the most out of their stars and playing like a team.  They are probably greater than the sum of their parts right now.

[Skinsinparadise]

Bullock watches our games lol like 10 times over.  I don't always agree with him but I often do.   I am not stuck on LT though, I would go Harrison over Fashanu.

 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

 

As much of a need as it is a LT at say 4 will be such a disappointment. This team needs impact players and I just don't see any of these LTs as being elite.  I will never understand the idea of trading Sam Howell for a 3rd round pick if they take a QB high.  The bust rate on top 5 QBs is too high to simply let a guy who has proven he can play in the league walk for a third round pick.  Keep Howell as really good insurance if they take a QB would be my thought.  But if we came out of this draft with a player who can be a game changer in Harrison yeah I'm OK with that too.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[skinsfan66]

16 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's not an either or.  You get the best player in the NFL and it's easier to put a great team and good coaching around him.  That player elevates your entire franchise and makes everyone's job easier.

You get the best player that makes your team better is the way that I see it.

[Est.1974]

30 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

As much of a need as it is a LT at say 4 will be such a disappointment. This team needs impact players and I just don't see any of these LTs as being elite.  I will never understand the idea of trading Sam Howell for a 3rd round pick if they take a QB high.  The bust rate on top 5 QBs is too high to simply let a guy who has proven he can play in the league walk for a third round pick.  Keep Howell as really good insurance if they take a QB would be my thought.  But if we came out of this draft with a play who can be a game changer in Harrison yeah I'm OK with that too.

Similar, LT doesn’t feel like best use of such a valuable pick in this draft. I’d be moving back if LT was deemed to be the way our new FO was going. Move back and pick up a couple more picks. Then draft OL.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

Similar, LT doesn’t feel like best use of such a valuable pick in this draft. I’d be moving back if LT was deemed to be the way our new FO was going. Move back and pick up a couple more picks. Then draft OL.

That has always been my issue with taking a left tackle in the top 5. This is a deep OT class, the way to build a team is maximizing the value of every pick and a LT at 4 or 5 is just not good value.  

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

As much of a need as it is a LT at say 4 will be such a disappointment. This team needs impact players and I just don't see any of these LTs as being elite.  I will never understand the idea of trading Sam Howell for a 3rd round pick if they take a QB high.  The bust rate on top 5 QBs is too high to simply let a guy who has proven he can play in the league walk for a third round pick.  Keep Howell as really good insurance if they take a QB would be my thought.  But if we came out of this draft with a play who can be a game changer in Harrison yeah I'm OK with that too.

Unless the OT turned out to be a stud, no disappointment then. How does making the(team)better with keeping Howell on the bench and drafting another with no. 4 pick? Howell has to go to the highest bidder and maybe you draft another lower rd. pick QB if you like one for insurance.  No way I am trading Howell for a third not good QB value. Howell and WR,LT,TE... or New QB plus draft capital. Seems to me the better way to go for me.   

3 hours ago, sjinhan said:

I say if we pick a QB in the first round then we offload Howell for whatever we can get.  I would think he is at minimum worth a 3rd or higher

If we go that route I agree.

Edited December 14, 2023 by skinsfan66

[Skinsinparadise]

I am higher than both Fashanu and Alt than most.  I think they are both legit top 10 picks.  But I am probably somewhere in between the mock draft community who think both guys are super great prospects, slam dunk no brainer top pick 5 picks especially Fashanu and some of the critics of both players on the board who think they are overrated and aren't so hot.

 

I think both would be strong gets in the top 10, heck I wouldn't hate it in the top 5 either.

 

But i do like the depth at that spot so for the O line or bust crowd, I'd rather trade down.  And overall Marvin Harrison Jr. or a QB if they love one intrigue me much more.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

17 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

He won't. The 5th round draft capital and lack of a 5th year rookie option hurts his trade value as does his middling to below average and worse current metrics. 

If a team tries to trade for him, they'll be moving a late 3rd to a 5th, I can't see any possibility the offer is a 1st or a 2nd especially in a potentially glutted market. 

Then you do not trade him is how I see it.

3 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Then you do not trade him is how I see it.

Which means I do not take another QB and take some one to build around him.

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Then you do not trade him is how I see it.

Which means I do not take another QB and take some one to build around him.

 

Your reply to me was unclear, now I see you don't want to draft a QB and roll with Howell. But my scenario was if they do take a QB.  What do you do with Howell?  He won't fetch more than a 3rd I would think and with the bust rate of top 5 QBs so high I think it would be foolish to give a young QB with tools and upside away for a 3rd.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[skinsfan66]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Your reply to me was unclear, now I see you don't want to draft a QB and roll with Howell. But my scenario was if they do take a QB.  What do you do with Howell?  He won't fetch more than a 3rd I would think and with the bust rate of top 5 QBs so high I think it would be foolish to give a young QB with tools and upside away for a 3rd.  

I would stick with Howell but not both. Or draft a QB if I thought he was the one and trade Howell for better than 3rd. comp. If not better comp. than third rd. I stick with Howell and build around him.

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

This team needs impact players and I just don't see any of these LTs as being elite

 

I'm personally a little taken aback by this comment. Have you seen Taliese Fuaga play? He is as good a prospect if not better than Sewell to me. Fashanu and Alt are nothing to sneeze at either. Now, I agree with can trade back and still come away with an excellent OT because this class is loaded but I personally would label Fuaga as an elite caliber prospect.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

That has always been my issue with taking a left tackle in the top 5. This is a deep OT class, the way to build a team is maximizing the value of every pick and a LT at 4 or 5 is just not good value.  

How bout dropping back, taking Bowers (TE) and filling the other 3-4 day two picks with O-line and maybe a safety?

35 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I would stick with Howell but not both. Or draft a QB if I thought he was the one and trade Howell for better than 3rd. comp. If not better comp. than third rd. I stick with Howell and build around him.

Agreed, I wouldn't trade Howell for less than a 2nd and 2025 third...if a team is really interested in him they'll gladly pay that price for their new starting QB.

[clskinsfan]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Its good summary from a Commanders fan who is active on twitter, draft nerd type who goes to the Senior Bowl among other things.  And he's been a Howell guy.  Again its not about Howell in a vaccum.

 

 

As crappy as this franchise is a top 3 or 4 pick has been a rarity. If you have the ability to grab a true franchise QB you do it. The team has neglected QB in the draft for far too long. Yes they got lucky and hit on a player that is at least decent in the 5th round two years ago. But that is overwhelmingly rare. When you are doing a true rebuild from the ground up everyone is expendable. And Sam has trade value. Problem with him being a 5th rounder is you have no 5th year option on him. So it will lower his trade value a little bit. But it will be up to to the new staff to decide the direction they want to go at QB. To me Williams is the best on field QB I have watched in this draft. His off schedule game is incredibly good. And he is the only QB I would be willing to trade up a couple of spots for. Maye is meh to me. And I would not draft Daniels in the first round. You could also add someone like Penix or Nix in the second round to compete against Sam. But again the odds of that player being a true franchise superstar are slim. 

 

The other factor to me is next years QB crop looks pretty pedestrian. So if you want your franchise guy this is probably the draft to do it in. 

[method man]

The challenges with Fashanu are that he may be a guy 1) who just stinks his first year and 2) does not have an exit path to guard.

 

On #1, if we look at the three most recent drafts, it feels like the majority of the top 10 pick tackles were unable to hit the ground running as pass protectors. Just from the last two drafts, none of the top 10 tackles have been good as pass protectors so far (Johnson, Wright, Ekwonu, Cross and Neal). In fact, outside of Cross who has been average at it, the others have been bad so far. If you aren’t very good as a pass protector, then you need to be able to contribute in the run game, which Fashanu does not do. 
 

On #2, due to the finesse heavy nature of his game, if Fashanu busts at tackle, he is probably going to be ineffective at guard so he lacks that floor and can’t take the path that Cosmi and Flowers recently have to become effectIve players.

 

Many on this board overrate the impact that rookie OLs have on their teams. Yes, you have the exceptions who hit the ground running but for all of you penciling in Van Pran, Beebe etc as first year starters in addition to a rookie tackle, look at this past draft class to see how long the adjustment period to NFL football takes. 
 

Putting Howell on a OL with 2+ rookie OLs is a recipe for disaster in 2024. If you want to fix the line fast for 2024, it is more sensible to tap free agency as much as, if not more than, the draft and shop at Nordstrom, not Sears.

 

To be clear, I am up for taking multiple OL in the draft but follow the Eagles’ model where their Day 2 picks in recent years have sat for a year and provided depth (ex Jurgens and Steen)

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock watches our games lol like 10 times over.  I don't always agree with him but I often do.   I am not stuck on LT though, I would go Harrison over Fashanu.

 

 

 

I am 100% on board with Bullock at this time.  We all like different flavors.  I understand yours.  

[clskinsfan]

14 minutes ago, method man said:

Putting Howell on a OL with 2+ rookie OLs is a recipe for disaster in 2024

Been saying this for weeks. Some people here want us to draft and start 4 rookies. That is a pipe dream and will never happen. You need experience in your OL room. And I definitely wouldnt stick two rookies side by side on the OL. I could see us rolling with Leno at LT another year and going rookie at RT and LG or RT and C though.

Edited December 14, 2023 by clskinsfan

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bullock watches our games lol like 10 times over.  I don't always agree with him but I often do.   I am not stuck on LT though, I would go Harrison over Fashanu.

 

 

 

To add to this, I think there will be a QB they fall in love with and the new GM takes him.  Just a guess on my end, the go with LT.  Should have explained in the first post. My bad. 

[Thinking Skins]

4 hours ago, sjinhan said:

I say if we pick a QB in the first round then we offload Howell for whatever we can get.  I would think he is at minimum worth a 3rd or higher

How are people saying we get such a low pick for Howell? He is a first rounder at LEAST. That's the starting point of negotiations. You don't let a starting QB go on a rookie contract who is a pro bowler in the top 5 in yards and top half in TDs go for a 3rd rounder. Thats how we unerestimated Cousins, thinking nobody wanted him. He was a good starter. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

As crappy as this franchise is a top 3 or 4 pick has been a rarity. If you have the ability to grab a true franchise QB you do it. The team has neglected QB in the draft for far too long. Yes they got lucky and hit on a player that is at least decent in the 5th round two years ago. But that is overwhelmingly rare. When you are doing a true rebuild from the ground up everyone is expendable. And Sam has trade value. Problem with him being a 5th rounder is you have no 5th year option on him. So it will lower his trade value a little bit. But it will be up to to the new staff to decide the direction they want to go at QB. To me Williams is the best on field QB I have watched in this draft. His off schedule game is incredibly good. And he is the only QB I would be willing to trade up a couple of spots for. Maye is meh to me. And I would not draft Daniels in the first round. You could also add someone like Penix or Nix in the second round to compete against Sam. But again the odds of that player being a true franchise superstar are slim. 

 

The other factor to me is next years QB crop looks pretty pedestrian. So if you want your franchise guy this is probably the draft to do it in. 

 

Agree with the overall point big time.  I disagree with some of the examples.  But the examples don't matter to me -- that's for the GM to dicipher.

 

I gather this part of the point you might disagree with but the way I see it among some others here is how many times has this team drafted high with a class like this at QB? 

 

And I understand some here don't think highly of this QB class but their thought on this isn't mainstream. I am not saying the outlier take on this QB doesn't end up correct.  But its for now an outlier position.  I got outlier takes on some things too and that's cool but at a minimum I don't always expect that my outlier take is hands down correct.  It at least makes me pause.

 

I am boring on this QB class.  I usually hate to agree with the standard mock drafter and get a kick out of disagreeing with them.  But on this class, I am having a hard time saying they are wrong.  I think Caleb is really good.  I've started to watch Drake Maye and so far I also think he's really good.  I've watched Daniels and I also think he's really good.  And i am far from an easy sell on QB, I've ripped my share of ballyhooed QBs over the years.   And ripped them hard.

 

Only quirky thing I notice is PFF among some others push Bo Nix.  It seems to have some momentum.  I haven't been taken with him watching him on and off in real time but I haven't studied him, I'll get to it.  Penix's injury history scares me.  McCarthy, I am back and forth on but I am not sold right now. 

 

I am not saying I am right of course.  I got no idea.  It's the hardest position to judge in sports.  No one has cracked the QB code so I am not arguing that I am the first to do it. . But clearly there are some here (not you) who think they've cracked it to some extent -- while I don't think its easy to dicipher whether Howell has elite upside, some think they got that figured out, ditto apples to apples comparison with this draft class.  I don't have that level of confidence.   

 

But I do trust an evaluator to figure it out.  Not because they are perfect.  But they are goinbg to study it longer and harder than us, are paid to get it right, and will have a lot more information to make that call. 

 

At a minimum, I agree with your overall point that this isn't a place we typically are at.  Some are acting like its deja vu because of Ramsey, JC, Haskins, etc.  But its not.  We usually aren't picking this high. Years back when we did we skipped QB.  Post RG3 we earned the #2 pick but traded it away.

 

 

23 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Been saying this for weeks. Some people here want us to draft and start 4 rookies. That is a pipe dream and will never happen. You need experience in your OL room. And I definitely wouldnt stick two rookies side by side on the OL. I could see us rolling with Leno at LT another year and going rookie at RT and LG.

 

Agree.  And while FA isn't hot for tackle typically, its usually fine for interior O line.  Looks fine this year, too.  It's not 100% draft or bust for that spot. 

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

How are people saying we get such a low pick for Howell? He is a first rounder at LEAST. That's the starting point of negotiations. You don't let a starting QB go on a rookie contract who is a pro bowler in the top 5 in yards and top half in TDs go for a 3rd rounder. Thats how we unerestimated Cousins, thinking nobody wanted him. He was a good starter. 

I dont think you are gonna get a first for Howell. His "top 5" stats are skewed because EB refuses to run the football. His TD% is the lowest of the top 17 QB's in passing yards. His INT% is the second highest IN THE LEAGUE. His QBR is 23rd. I am not saying Howell cant be a good starter. He could end up being a top 15 player at the position. But when you actually dig into his stats with open eyes the story becomes much murkier.

[Est.1974]

39 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Putting Howell on a OL with 2+ rookie OLs is a recipe for disaster in 2024. If you want to fix the line fast for 2024, it is more sensible to tap free agency as much as, if not more than, the draft and shop at Nordstrom, not Sears.

Free agency isn’t that good this year for OL, unless we get some cuts, or even a more unlikely scenario of trading for someone ? Allen for an OL plus pick ? Unlikely.

 

However, I think we will almost be forced to draft 3 OL with the view of starting 2 high end rookies. I’m fine with that, but agree starting more than 2 is a recipe for disaster.

[skinsfan66]

47 minutes ago, method man said:

The challenges with Fashanu are that he may be a guy 1) who just stinks his first year and 2) does not have an exit path to guard.

 

On #1, if we look at the three most recent drafts, it feels like the majority of the top 10 pick tackles were unable to hit the ground running as pass protectors. Just from the last two drafts, none of the top 10 tackles have been good as pass protectors so far (Johnson, Wright, Ekwonu, Cross and Neal). In fact, outside of Cross who has been average at it, the others have been bad so far. If you aren’t very good as a pass protector, then you need to be able to contribute in the run game, which Fashanu does not do. 
 

On #2, due to the finesse heavy nature of his game, if Fashanu busts at tackle, he is probably going to be ineffective at guard so he lacks that floor and can’t take the path that Cosmi and Flowers recently have to become effectIve players.

 

Many on this board overrate the impact that rookie OLs have on their teams. Yes, you have the exceptions who hit the ground running but for all of you penciling in Van Pran, Beebe etc as first year starters in addition to a rookie tackle, look at this past draft class to see how long the adjustment period to NFL football takes. 
 

Putting Howell on a OL with 2+ rookie OLs is a recipe for disaster in 2024. If you want to fix the line fast for 2024, it is more sensible to tap free agency as much as, if not more than, the draft and shop at Nordstrom, not Sears.

 

To be clear, I am up for taking multiple OL in the draft but follow the Eagles’ model where their Day 2 picks in recent years have sat for a year and provided depth (ex Jurgens and Steen)

With F.A. fill the C and LG maybe and hit the draft? RT,TE? I hope they can find a couple vets who can still play in FA also. No matter the QB.

32 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

How are people saying we get such a low pick for Howell? He is a first rounder at LEAST. That's the starting point of negotiations. You don't let a starting QB go on a rookie contract who is a pro bowler in the top 5 in yards and top half in TDs go for a 3rd rounder. Thats how we unerestimated Cousins, thinking nobody wanted him. He was a good starter. 

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