Redskins alternate universe: How would the trajectory of the franchise have changed if.....

[kfrankie]

From time to time over the course of my adult fandom, I have wondered how the fortunes of the franchise would have changed if certain key events had not transpired.  I'll open it up by offering a few key moment over the past 40 years.

 

(1) What if Joe Theismann does not break his leg in 1985 against the Giants? 

Result:  Joe finishes out the season, and starts the 1986 season with Schroeder as his backup. The Redskins do not sign Doug Williams in the spring of 1986. After 8 games, Schroeder takes over for an aging Theismann, the team finishes 10-6. Theismann stays on as the backup the Schroeder in 1987, steps in when Jay is injured against the Eagles, and leads the team to a wildcard while Schroeder pouts on the bench.  1st round playoff loss, and Schroeder takes over for good to start the 1988 season.

 

(2) What if Jay Schroeder is not injured in week 1 of the 1987 season against the Eagles?

Result: Jay plays out 1987 season in the same fashion he played in 1986-- Lots of big plays, and lots of turnovers.  Doug Williams does not see the field.  The Redskins win the division, but lose to the Vikings in the championship game. Jay remains the starter through 1994, with moderate success but no super bowls victories. Mark Rypien is the backup, but never truly gets a chance to start and is out of the league by 1993.

 

(3) What if Timmy Smith had turned out to be better a really good back after Super Bowl XXII, averaging 1000 yards from 1988-1991?

Result: The front office sees no reason to sign Gerald Riggs or Earnest Byner after the 1988 season. Timmy fills that role admirably, and the Redskins repeat as champions in 1988 behind an effective running game, with a combination of Doug Williams and Mark Rypien leading the charge.  Rypien takes over for good in 1989, and the team sees two more playoff seasons before capping things off with the 1991 Super Bowl. After that, things fall apart.

 

(4) What if Joe Gibbs does not retire after the 1992 season?

Result:  Joe coaches the team for 8 more seasons, and retires after the 2000 season. During that span, and due to the presence of Joe, Mark Rypien maintains his form for several seasons, the team's success attracts the right type of talent during the era of free agency, and the team wins 2 more Super Bowls after reloading during the 1993-1994 seasons.

Edited August 31, 2023 by kfrankie

[RVAskins]

Let's go back even further. Let me preface this by saying that in no way is this meant to be political commentary.

What if Stewart Udall and Robert F. Kennedy didn't issue an ultimatum to George Preston Marshal that the government would revoke the Redskins' 30-year lease on D.C. Stadium (RFK Stadium) unless Marshall integrated the team.

Result: One of the greatest Redskins, Bobby Mitchell, would never have played for this team.

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

What if Boston fans actually cared about the team in 1936? G.P. Marshall would have never moved the team to Washington, and this city likely would have gotten an AFL team in 1960 instead of the Boston Patriots.

 

Personally I don't think Schroeder would have stayed consistent like in 1986...he showed that later with the Raiders, good enough to get to 9-7 and that's about it. I do see him pouting on the bench, though!

 

And Gibbs retired at the right time, when free agency was beginning. Gibbs was a great coach, but not so good at picking personnel, and I think he understood that especially after the 1992 season when they went 9-7. He didn't have to worry about finding replacements for Jacoby and Bostic every other year, and I believe that's why this team was so good at that time...one of the best offensive lines in history, so good that even decent QBs like Theismann, Schroeder, Williams, and Rypien looked like Hall of Famers.

Edited August 24, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[DWinzit]

For clarification, are we skipping over the entire Snyder era's decisions on players, staff, coaching, FO, facilities, ignoring the fans and so on...?

 

What if Sean Taylor wasn't killed?

Result: continue to build on their improving win loss record being led by him to regular appearances in the playoffs instead of seeing a decline over the 4 years following.

 

BTW, LT broke JT's leg.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

this city likely would have gotten an AFL team in 1960 instead of the Boston Patriots.

 

That would have sucked because whenever patriots fans give me **** about not rooting for the hone team I tell then my team played in Boston long before yours did.

Not many of them are even aware of that fact.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

What if Mike Shanahan had pulled an obviously injured Robert Griffin from the 2012 Seattle playoff game at halftime (which we were winning 14-0) and put in Cousins to play the second half.  Very good chance we would have won that game and ended up in (at least) the NFC title game that season, and Griffin's career could have been extended.  

 

 

[ntotoro]

Carlos Rogers doesn't drop a pick-6 that even I could have run it... on a possession that resulted in a Seattle TD in the playoffs...

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

And Gibbs retired at the right time, when free agency was beginning. Gibbs was a great coach, but not so good at picking personnel, and I think he understood that especially after the 1992 season when they went 9-7. He didn't have to worry about finding replacements for Jacoby and Bostic every other year, and I believe that's why this team was so good at that time...one of the best offensive lines in history, so good that even decent QBs like Theismann, Schroeder, Williams, and Rypien looked like Hall of Famers.

The biggest problem was that Gibbs was a targetter.  He had a history of overpaying for draft picks either to move up or to trade for a guy (even back in the day, 2 #1s for a guy who gave us 3 years and 2 1000 yard seasons and several times gave up a #1 for a guy that NEVER played for us and sometimes never played in the NFL). Free agency might have been a boon for Gibbs as long as he had a personnel guy who could keep him out of the franchise-tag market. He had a big hand in devaluing the RB (he heavily used role players) but always overvalued the RB position. Champ plus a 2 for Clinton? Champ played 2 more years after Portis was out of the NFL and played at a high-level till 2012 while Portis last high level year was 2008. We have not had a CB even approaching Baily since 2003 but in the years after CP, we have had multiple one or two year wonders at RB. However, I am pretty certain that had Gibbs come back in 1999 (and no Snyder), we'd have been pretty dominant till 2007 (assuming that was his retirement year).  My only question is if he runs the draft as smartly in 1999 (or if he salivates over Ricky Williams almost as much as Ditika) as we did and actually take Chris Samuels over Arrington at 2 and maybe moved up to take Urlacher or waited and taken Petersen with our 2nd first rounder.

[zCommander]

18 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

What if Mike Shanahan had pulled an obviously injured Robert Griffin from the 2012 Seattle playoff game at halftime (which we were winning 14-0) and put in Cousins to play the second half.  Very good chance we would have won that game and ended up in (at least) the NFC title game that season, and Griffin's career could have been extended.  

 

 

 

Why not just go back couple of games to... what if Ngata helmet lands on on RG3's upper thigh instead of his knee. RG3 would have been sore but would still had his knee and we could have possibly be in the SB... if not winning it all. 

[mojo]

I think Joe T finishes the season on the bench as a healthy scratch without the leg injury. I remember him being lousy that season and I just looked at the stats through 11 games.  55% completion - 8 TD's -16 Picks.

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Why not just go back couple of games to... what if Ngata helmet lands on on RG3's upper thigh instead of his knee. RG3 would have been sore but would still had his knee and we could have possibly be in the SB... if not winning it all. 

Or if RG would have just stepped out of bounds...

[DWinzit]

30 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

The biggest problem was that Gibbs was a targetter.  He had a history of overpaying for draft picks either to move up or to trade for a guy 

What if we didn't draft Desmond Howard? We were coming off a SB win and were long in the tooth at a few positions. The trade primarily cost the 6th and 28th picks for the 4th pick.

Results: We could have had CB Troy Vincent or OT Bob Whitfield or Leon Searcy at 6 and still filled WR with Carl Pickens at 28 who won offensive rookie of the year. Also the following year we were forced to use our first rounder on a CB - Tom Carter. We could instead of grabbed DT Dana Stubblefield

No idea of these moves could have postponed Gibbs leaving or Pettibone surviving a year but would have been a much more talented and needed youth movement.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by DWinzit

[zCommander]

30 minutes ago, mojo said:

Or if RG would have just stepped out of bounds...

 

Not sure what he was thinking, or not thinking at all, when instead or running out of bounds, which looked like he was going to do but instead he cuts right back towards to the middle of the field trying to get more yards.  

[Warhead36]

The RG3 injury is definitely the biggest what if in franchise history. He was completely altering the direction and reputation of the team in just his rookie year. If he stays healthy we probably go on an extended run of success with Kyle Shanahan likely our coach right now. I don't know if we'd have won any Super Bowls, a lot has to go right for that, but we'd be in the discussion every year.

 

Such a shame.

[mojo]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The RG3 injury is definitely the biggest what if in franchise history. He was completely altering the direction and reputation of the team in just his rookie year. If he stays healthy we probably go on an extended run of success with Kyle Shanahan likely our coach right now. I don't know if we'd have won any Super Bowls, a lot has to go right for that, but we'd be in the discussion every year.

 

Such a shame.

 

Not out of the realm of possibility, but I think once RG showed up to Shanahan's office (with Dan's blessing of course) carrying a list of plays he would and wouldn't run, that relationship was done.

[LetThePointsSoar]

For all the RG3 talk, what I imagine-what if Shanahan wouldn't have been forced to draft RG3 to begin with, saved those picks, drafted Luke Kuechly instead in the 1st round while still grabbing Kirk Cousins? 

 

I think Kyle Shanahan would still be here as dad's successor. 

[88Comrade2000]

What if Joe didn’t draft Campbell and the following year got Drew Brees?

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

What if Mike Shanahan had pulled an obviously injured Robert Griffin from the 2012 Seattle playoff game at halftime (which we were winning 14-0) and put in Cousins to play the second half.  Very good chance we would have won that game and ended up in (at least) the NFC title game that season, and Griffin's career could have been extended.  

 

 

Also, what if Robert didn't lie to Shanahan (caught on film) about his injury?

Result: Shanahan pulls him, etc. etc. etc.

 

Both of those boobs made critical mistakes that night.  Shanahan should have trusted his eye and not the word of a lying 23 year old.  And the 23 year old shouldn't have been a thin-skinned ninny and lied about his injury situation.  

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

The RG3 injury is definitely the biggest what if in franchise history. He was completely altering the direction and reputation of the team in just his rookie year. If he stays healthy we probably go on an extended run of success with Kyle Shanahan likely our coach right now. I don't know if we'd have won any Super Bowls, a lot has to go right for that, but we'd be in the discussion every year.

 

Such a shame.

IF the two of them could get along and Dan didn't get in the way.  Injury or no, Griffin didn't want to run the offense the Shanahan's created for him to be successful.  And that was going to sink the ship at some point.

 

Also, my guy couldn't stay healthy.  Even if he dodged that bullet, there was another one coming.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

54 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

What if Joe didn’t draft Campbell and the following year got Drew Brees?

He might still be coaching....  

 

Or ... What if Joe had traded up one or two more spot and gotten Aaron Rodgers?  

[zCommander]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Or ... What if Joe had traded up one or two more spot and gotten Aaron Rodgers?  

 

Was about to say just that. We got Rogers instead of Rodgers.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Was about to say just that. We got Rogers instead of Rodgers.  

Well, we could have had both.  

 

Though one was more useful than the other....

[SkinsFTW]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He might still be coaching....  

 

Or ... What if Joe had traded up one or two more spot and gotten Aaron Rodgers?  

 

Or just have drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Stone Hands. 

[Riggo-toni]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He might still be coaching....  

 

Or ... What if Joe had traded up one or two more spot and gotten Aaron Rodgers?  

Or what if he never made the trade for the Campbell pick and took Aaron Rodgers at 9 instead of Carlos Rodgers...or what if we had drafted Big Ben instead of Sean Taylor. Gibbs is one of the greatest coaches of all time, but he was poor at personnel.  What brings me to the biggest what if of the Snyder era:

What if Snyder hadn't refused to pay any extra incentives to Bobby Beathard beyond the measly $500k salary he offered. Beathard was in DC looking for houses when his agent and Snyder's guy spoke on the phone. Beathard's agent wanted to add incentive clauses for players making the probowl and playoff wins, but Snyder's agent said no incentives - 500k, take it or leave it. Snyder subsequently refused to return Beathard's calls and rehired Vinny Bugeyes. If Snyder hires Beathard, he would have been around for Gibbs II, and I definitely think he would have refused to draft Campbell.  Plus he would have done better drafting on the offensive side of the ball, where every pick other than Cooley was a bust.

 

The biggest what if of franchise history has to be what if Lombardi didn't get cancer. He and Sonny clicked and Lombardi would have turned the defense around quickly. Remember, we had an MVP RB, a HoF QB, a would be HoF TE if it weren't for homophobia, a HoF WR with excellent #2 Roy Jefferson.

 

[Command The 414]

What if the botched snap with what 1:30 left against the Bucs in the 1999 Playoff game wouldn’t have happened and Conway kicked the FG and we would have played the Rams that year in the NFC Championship 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Command The 414

[Dark Acre]

when the team was 6-0 in 1978 and had throttled Dallas on MNF 9-5, didn't trade WR Frank Grant which precipitated a 2-8 finish....  (The 1978 Redskins WR corps may be the worst in NFL history.  Then you trade one of them and make it even worse.)

 

What if we'd found a way to draft both Marino and Green in the 1983 draft?

Edited August 24, 2023 by Dark Acre

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

If Snyder hires Beathard, he would have been around for Gibbs II, and I definitely think he would have refused to draft Campbell.  Plus he would have done better drafting on the offensive side of the ball, where every pick other than Cooley was a bust.

Most likely, it would have been a better team.

 

That said: Beathard is also the one who traded the farm to move up one spot to draft Ryan Leaf.  

 

So, you never know what's going to happen.  Would it have been better?  Almost certainly.  Would Snyder have gotten in the way?  Probably. Would Gibbs and Beathard re-created the magic for the 80's?  Unlikely but possible.  That took both skill and a little luck. 

 

I got another:  What if the Redskins LOSE the first SB to the Dolphins, and instead of drafting Darrell Green with the last pick in the 1983 draft, they draft Dan Marino with the second to last pick in the NFL draft.  Both Beathard and Gibbs have said Marino was the pick if he was there.  He wasn't (by 1 spot) so they drafted Green instead.  

 

Not a bad consolation prize, if we're being honest.  But Dan + Gibbs, he might never have retired and won 7 SBs. 

14 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Or just have drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Stone Hands. 

Yeah, but Rodgers fell another ~15 spots.  It's a little bit of hindsight being 20/20 saying he should have been picked that much earlier.

 

Didn't they have to actually escort him out of the green room during the draft day coverage because it got so awkward?  Epic free-fall.