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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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We did not have a good run game last year. We had really good commitment to it, partly because we couldn't trust either of our QBs, but it wasn't really all that efficient. We only had nine rushing TDs on the year and four were from our QBs and I believe we were last in the league in big run plays(rushes for over 10 or over 20 yards). Everyone loves to point to that Eagle win on MNF and how we "ran it down their throats" but we actually averaged under 4 YPC, we just stuck with it and that coupled with some uncharacteristic Eagle turnovers and a lucky missed non facemask were why we won that game.

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NickyJ

NickyJ

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11 hours ago, RVAskins said:

I hope he gets into broadcasting once his playing days are over. He really seems natural and at ease behind the mic.

This post got me to wondering about punters. Chris Kluwe and Pat McAfee were outspoken punters. But what about our old punters? Like our best player to ever don the number 4, Derrick Frost.

 

(It's a three and a half minute watch, it's worth it just to see the contrast lol)

https://cbs2iowa.com/sports/cbs2-local-sports/iowa-sports-legends-where-are-they-now-derrick-frost

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wit33

wit33

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6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

How about they invested a lot in the unit.  3rd most in the league in captial then boom, the young guys develop and they keep adding to that unit.  And get good.  i don't thnk it was all about RPOs and Mariotta. 
 

 

I’m cool with 50/50 credit. It’s settled. 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are helping making this unit soft with all this praise.    It's apparently the criticism that's making this unit a bit mad and might be a motivational tool.  :ols:
 

 

4-2 start. I’m gonna hold you to it. You guaranteed it… essentially. 
 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But seriously, you can like the posts criticizing Josh Harris which I noticed you did.  And double down on Ron.  But Ron isn't the future.  Harris is.   It will play out the way it should.  I am not worried.  I'd love Ron to be vindicated.  I'd have to be top 5 here in pro Ron posts.  But I've had enough with his slow play on this roster.  If they don't make the playoffs, almost zero chance he returns.  And i seriously doubt the next FO will be this lax about buildng this unit.

 

I’m an avid NBA basketball fan, so agreed with additional context being provided. 
 

I get very little fan enjoyment relating to ownership type stuff. Haven’t read one article on Josh Harris, but was cool to learn he was once a fan. Full disclosure, as the years continue to add up and being a father of a 9 year old who loves the Suns, getting Matt Ishbia and securing a fun 3-4 year window is amazing. I never lived in the DC area, so it never resonated with me on that level—I get it more now. 
 

I love the roster, so have to hang in there with Ron a bit. Selfishly I don’t desire another rebuild with a new offense, defense, and team culture. Everything is fine now, just need to hit on a QB.  No way they can keep Ron without making playoffs, not at all debating that. Ron must come through in a big way this season. 

 

5 hours ago, tomwvr said:

Im still not sold on Hurts. I need to see another season before I think he is the best QB in the NFC East.

 

I can’t argue needing to see another season, but the dude checks most tangible boxes and arguably the highest intangibles in the league. Hard for that kind of guy who’s talent physically and wired right not to succeed, in my opinion. 
 

With that said, keep him in the pocket I think still can be troublesome for him. For how long will this be the case, not long is my guess. 

 

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We did not have a good run game last year. We had really good commitment to it, partly because we couldn't trust either of our QBs, but it wasn't really all that efficient. We only had nine rushing TDs on the year and four were from our QBs and I believe we were last in the league in big run plays(rushes for over 10 or over 20 yards). Everyone loves to point to that Eagle win on MNF and how we "ran it down their throats" but we actually averaged under 4 YPC, we just stuck with it and that coupled with some uncharacteristic Eagle turnovers and a lucky missed non facemask were why we won that game.


Washington was the league leader in time of possession, 11th in first down rushes, and among the league leaders in rush attempts. No way saying they good or great, but I’d give them average to above or so. 
 

The offense was ATROCIOUS in the red zone. 
 

Also, the league scoring was down and it was somewhat of a throwback year in terms of runnign the football. Ground and pound assisted a few teams in getting to the playoffs.

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redskinss

redskinss

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5 hours ago, wit33 said:

love the roster, so have to hang in there with Ron a bit. Selfishly I don’t desire another rebuild with a new offense, defense, and team culture. Everything is fine now, just need to hit on a QB.  No way they can keep Ron without making playoffs, not at all debating that. Ron must come through in a big way this season. 

It feels as though you somehow extracted this from my brain.

This is exactly how I feel, Ron definitely has to make the playoffs but if he does and Howell hits I think another season or two of filling in the holes could make this an extremely competitive team.

 

Something that falls into the cross that bridge when we get there category is what happens a year or two from now if Bienemy is successful and almost certainly moves on.

Ron has proven he is not a good x's and o's coach or with game management especially with the offense.

He needs a great offensive coordinator who can run the show but unfortunately those guys always seem to get head coaching gigs.

He needs to find his jack del rio of the offense someone who's proven to be an excellent coordinator but had their shot at head coach already and is content with a coordinator role.

 

But that's obviously way down the road and he needs to win now or none of it will matter because he'll be gone.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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6 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

4-2 start. I’m gonna hold you to it. You guaranteed it… essentially. 

 

lol, I didn't guarantee it.  My prediction was 8-9.  But the 500 records rarely go on a back and forth, one loss, one win ride.  It's usually winning streaks and losing streaks.  The start of the season matchups as I explained at least on paper are more favorable to them to what's after those first 6 games. 

 

Tough to call exacly how Ron goes 8-9.  He's a reliable bet to go 8-9.  The how he does it is a harder prediction.  But I know I am going against the grain with how he's done it in the last 2 years which were slow stats, hot in the middle, cold in the end.  This time I think its hot early, so so in the middle, cold in the end.  I laid it out in the prediction thread.

 

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I’m an avid NBA basketball fan, so agreed with additional context being provided. 
 

I get very little fan enjoyment relating to ownership type stuff. Haven’t read one article on Josh Harris, but was cool to learn he was once a fan. Full disclosure, as the years continue to add up and being a father of a 9 year old who loves the Suns, getting Matt Ishbia and securing a fun 3-4 year window is amazing. I never lived in the DC area, so it never resonated with me on that level—I get it more now. 

 

From a basketball point of view,   Jerry Buss and our own Magic Johnson are featured prominetely in Winning Time, Rise of the Lakers, TV series.  Granted its TV, but its based at least loosely on that era.  Fun to watch Buss take over that team and go to the coach-GM what do you guys want?  I don't want to be good enough, I want championships.  Seriously, no joke, i want to win.   And he followed through.

 

In baseball, I am watchiing, my fav team the Yankees, fall down with Hal Steinbrenner who unlike his dad doesn't spend whatever it takes.  He still spends a lot but not like his dad did. No way his dad would let the Mets outspend him let alone by 100 million.  In the premier league, I follow Liverpool who can't compete with the spending of Man City among others.  John Henry who owns that team and also the Red Sox doesn't seem to spend to go for the kill.  He wants profits first and foremost.  And its frustrating both fan bases.  

 

I can go on and on but IMO ownership means a lot.  We might have had the worst owner in the modern era of sports. So that era endiung means everything.  If you did read about Harris I think you'd be impressed.  He likes to find the top GM in whatever sport. And gives them the money to do what they want. And he invests in the team -- facilities, recovery equipment, best of the best of everything.

 

I don't expect the owner to make every decision right.  So maybe who he thinks is the best GM prospect, others might think that dude is overated.  Lets take for example Chris Ballard.  Some think he's the smartest personnel guy in the league, others think overrated.  But the idea behind the hire is the right idea.  That's what I care about. Eventually you will hit if the mindset is right. 

 

Dan didn't give a rats behind about getting top personnel people.  He had John Schneider when he was a young and upcoming personnel guy, Marty brought him, but Dan couldn't wait to get rid of him and bring back his pal Vinny.  He put a politician in charge of personnel for 10 years.  That clown show will end with Harris.

 

6 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I love the roster, so have to hang in there with Ron a bit. Selfishly I don’t desire another rebuild with a new offense, defense, and team culture. Everything is fine now, just need to hit on a QB.  No way they can keep Ron without making playoffs, not at all debating that. Ron must come through in a big way this season. 

 

  

 Ron IMO built 3/4 of a ship, could have finished the full ship but didn't.  It will likely IMO cost him his job.   I seriously doubt Harris will do a tear down.  He already hinted that he wouldn't citing this is a different team than the others he inherited, has a good young nucelus.   They just need to hire someone who knows how to close, has a sense of urgency and will finish the ship.  I used to think Ron would be the guy to finish the roster -- but now I've changed my mind on that and big time so. 

 

Studying Harris and knowing Ron I think they will have a disconnect because of 3 issues.

 

A.  Harris by reputation is a go for a kill or retrace-rebuild and start over kind of guy.   That's not Ron's style from what I observed.  

He's neither go for the kill or rebuild -- he comes off as play it in the middle guy -- and I suspect that will drive Harris nuts. 

 

B.  Harris believes in a GM model and likes to hire the best name he can find.  No one in the league will tell him Ron is the best GM in the league.  So I don't see that fit.

 

C. He's more in the hipster mode as for building a team. Anayltics heavy, build assets, outside the box thinking.  That's definitely not Ron.

 

I think the two will get along great though.  Both comes off as nice guys.  At the end of the season I think you'll have an amicable parting.  Maybe even Ron steps down?

 

Screen Shot 2023-08-08 at 7.59.45 AM.png

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Bantu

Bantu

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10 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Jon Allen looks like a monster. We finally have some able and worthy leaders on this team. On both sides of the ball. 

 

He looks like how they draw super heroes in comic books in that photo lol. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Referencing back to the podcasts I listened to yesterday about the offensive line.  The point that the coaches and the unit are very aware of the criticism that are leveled at them from those watching practice, mostly the media, and they want to buck up their confidence including by heaping praise at them.

 

Thinking about that Logan Paulsen podcast from the other day where he did a 180 about the O line.  He was plenty critical before.  All of a sudden the unit has it all cooking right to him in that podcast. 

 

Logan works for the team, I'd put money Ron and company had a talk with him about the criticism.   Logan in particular is a big influencer because he doesn't just do his own podcasts but appears in just about everyone elses podcast and radio show.

 

It brings me back to Cooley who said once he left the team that his criticism in his film reviews of players on that roster was not well received in that building.

 

But if the coaches are going out of their way to praise the unit in part because of media criticism.  How do they not talk to the dude who works for the team about it?  Just a guess because I found that podcast a bit weird from Logan.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love the O line to be good.  But listening to Logan to not only change his tune to an extent but also holistically paint the sunniest brush I've heard about the O line by a mile out of nowhere, feels a bit suspicious to me now.

 

I hope they don't get to @Koolblue13 next?  😎

 

 

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redskinss

redskinss

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25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This time I think its hot early, so so in the middle, cold in the end.  I laid it out in the prediction thread

That's a bold prediction with an offensive line and quarterback in its infancy.

Expectations would be a cold start and the possibility of a hot finish if they gel, especially with Ron's history here so far but I do see the schedule point you made and it's certainly possible. 

If we start 4-2 I believe that means our offensive line is performing better than expected and so is Sam and I don't believe they'd come apart barring massive injuries. 

If we were fortunate enough to start 4-2 I'd bet on our first 11 win season in 30 years.

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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

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Wins and losses don’t mean much to me at the moment.  I know that sounds ridiculous. 
 

I just want a well run, prepared, competitive team that is fun to watch. The last two years (including our wins) have been some of the most miserable football games in recent memory. 
 

Football is entertainment. I’m hoping for some exciting games. I’m glad the division is good again. I want to see six heavyweight fights every year. 

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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7 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Wins and losses don’t mean much to me at the moment.  I know that sounds ridiculous. 
 

I just want a well run, prepared, competitive team that is fun to watch. The last two years (including our wins) have been some of the most miserable football games in recent memory. 
 

Football is entertainment. I’m hoping for some exciting games. I’m glad the division is good again. I want to see six heavyweight fights every year. 

That's where I'm at. I'm hoping to get a top 10 draft pick, but us play good winning football. 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Most people don't like to be yelled and cursed at, especially when they're trying to learn something new. 

 

I also think it's pretty stupid to line our #1 O up against what might be the best defense in the league this year while learning something new, with a lot of new players.

 

And then yelling at them like children when they struggle.

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Chris 44

Chris 44

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37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Referencing back to the podcasts I listened to yesterday about the offensive line.  The point that the coaches and the unit are very aware of the criticism that are leveled at them from those watching practice, mostly the media, and they want to buck up their confidence including by heaping praise at them.

 

Thinking about that Logan Paulsen podcast from the other day where he did a 180 about the O line.  He was plenty critical before.  All of a sudden the unit has it all cooking right to him in that podcast. 

 

Logan works for the team, I'd put money Ron and company had a talk with him about the criticism.   Logan in particular is a big influencer because he doesn't just do his own podcasts but appears in just about everyone elses podcast and radio show.

 

It brings me back to Cooley who said once he left the team that his criticism in his film reviews of players on that roster was not well received in that building.

 

But if the coaches are going out of their way to praise the unit in part because of media criticism.  How do they not talk to the dude who works for the team about it?  Just a guess because I found that podcast a bit weird from Logan.  Don't get me wrong, I'd love the O line to be good.  But listening to Logan to not only change his tune to an extent but also holistically paint the sunniest brush I've heard about the O line by a mile out of nowhere, feels a bit suspicious to me now.

 

I hope they don't get to @Koolblue13 next?  😎

 

 

I've heard Paulson mention "his clients" before. I know he coaches H.S. football, but I gather he does some consulting type work in addition to the podcasts etc.?

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

That's where I'm at. I'm hoping to get a top 10 draft pick, but us play good winning football. 

Most people don't like to be yelled and cursed at, especially when they're trying to learn something new. 

 

I also think it's pretty stupid to line our #1 O up against what might be the best defense in the league this year while learning something new, with a lot of new players.

 

And then yelling at them like children when they struggle.

This has been my concern with EB so far, in that his "schtick" may get old after a while, especially if the yelling extends beyond training camp.

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Bantu

Bantu

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Damn, players are already whining? That is pretty interesting. 

 

Seems like a typical 7-8 win team on paper (The Jeff Fisher special), so I think it will be a fresh start once this administration departs and Harris & Co. hand over the keys to new heads of football ops.

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HigSkin

HigSkin

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Posted (edited)

Most of these guys came out and said they wanted to be coached hard when EB was hired.  It is however a "read the room" situation which is how to coach these guys to the best of their abilities but not everyone is motivated the same way.  Some guys as @Koolblue13 said may not take to getting yelled out when they're trying to learn the new system.

 

 

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