2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

A dude, me, @Going Commando, @KDawg among others really liked a lot

 

 

 

 

This was one of those "all the physical abilities align but there has to be something else wrong to explain why he's falling".

 

Not getting our hands on Dawand or Mauch (who is also being praised at the moment) or both is looking pretty damning at the moment. Long way to go. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Why would Andy Reid “dump” EB off on Ron if they are good friends? I like silly but that’s Naked Gun 33 1/3 level stuff.

 

If that's aimed at my post, I don't think he dumped him on Ron. I think it's Ron doing a favor for EB, since he wasn't staying in KC and had nowhere else to go.

[FootballZombie]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

Live look in to Zombie's mental state on the matter

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This was one of those "all the physical abilities align but there has to be something else wrong to explain why he's falling".

 

Not getting our hands on Dawand or Mauch (who is also being praised at the moment) or both is looking pretty damning at the moment. Long way to go. 

 

Agree.  I recall the risky aspects of Dawand, I am the one who posted on it.   But the fact that he dropped to the 4th round mitigates that risk to some extent.  Callahan's Browns take him, who has one of the best O line in the league and likely is getting even better.  Rivera basically dismantled a good unit that Callahan put together here ironically.  lol, I'd rather hear Dawand is struggiling.  He was a brick wall at Ohio State.  But granted with some personality question marks.

 

While I trust Rivera with the defense.  I think its proven that his instincts on the O line are at best questionable.

  

But agree, will see.  Time will tell.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This was one of those "all the physical abilities align but there has to be something else wrong to explain why he's falling".

 

Not getting our hands on Dawand or Mauch (who is also being praised at the moment) or both is looking pretty damning at the moment. Long way to go. 

 

Mauch hurts, especially because apparently we decided to draft Martin and play him at safety instead of his college position at nickel.

[Chris 44]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

A dude, me, @Going Commando, @KDawg among others really liked a lot.  The Browns already had a great O line last year.  One can dream about it coming here. 

 

 

 

Will be a matchup worth watching next Friday

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

If that's aimed at my post, I don't think he dumped him on Ron. I think it's Ron doing a favor for EB, since he wasn't staying in KC and had nowhere else to go.

If Ron did someone ‘a favor’ by hiring them for the role that likely dictates if he gets to keep his own job then he’s an idiot. 
 

I don’t think Ron is the best coach in the league, but I don’t think he’s an idiot either. He’s hired EB because he’s been part of a winning organization and system and knows what ‘great’ looks like. He believes he can bring some of that here. 
 

We will see!

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Mauch hurts, especially because apparently we decided to draft Martin and play him at safety instead of his college position at nickel.

I’m still not thrilled with the Quan pick (I like him just fine, not personal against him).

 

We also have very significant LB issues and there were some good ones available the last few drafts that we passed on. Don’t get it.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Mauch hurts, especially because apparently we decided to draft Martin and play him at safety instead of his college position at nickel.

 

Mauch would have given them some position flex, too which Rivera loves.  Arguably can play every spot on the line.   Been fun to see him and Cosmi block on the 2nd level.

 

I did say I'd have taken Mauch over Martin during the draft.  But both were on my short my guys list.  Love both players.  And I do think we will be happy with Martin.  But Mauch IMO is likely the better fit if the idea is to win this season.  

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

Reminder Dawan Jones cancelled his scheduled visit to the Commanders. He was probably off our board after that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Reminder Dawan Jones cancelled his scheduled visits to the Commanders. He was probably off our board after that. 

 

I do remember.  I posted it.  His excuse was we already have a RT.   I gathered though that it was on the table to move Wylie to guard.

 

By reputation he's a tempermental dude but I think in the 4th round the risk is mitigated to some extent, because IMO he's a first round talent.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

Reminder Dawan Jones cancelled his scheduled visits to the Commanders. He was probably off our board after that. 

He’s a rookie. He has no say. 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I do remember.  I posted it.  His excuse was we already have a RT.   I gathered though that it was on the table to move Wylie to guard.

 If you blow off the interview you’re unlikely to get the job. Just saying we did show interest in him but it wasn’t reciprocated!

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

He’s a rookie. He has no say. 

He had enough say to cancel the visit. Which sent a very clear message to the team. 
 

Can’t say I blame the for passing on a guy who blew them off and already had some question marks around his personality.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 If you blow off the interview you’re unlikely to get the job. Just saying we did show interest in him but it wasn’t reciprocated!

 

I get it.

 

My frustration will be if this O line sucks again.  Juxtapose the point with the Browns already have a really good O line so the richer gets richer -- maybe.

 

I can in a vacuum justify almost everything Ron has done on the O line if we break down every decision.  But on the aggregate its just one miss after another even if there is a proper explanation for everything that ends in a swing and a miss.

 

It will be like me back when I had a boss (before running my own business) if I didn't get the job done the boss isn't going to care about the nuts and bolts about how it added up for me not to get the job done.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[bowhunter]

Does the O-line issue start with Gates? and then Wylie?  Howell/Gates  not calling proper protection? I mean Leno is fairly solid, Paul is big time potential and I haven't heard a lot about him getting beat up. Cosmi is our best guy, sooooo who's left?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

Yeah I guess nothing else really matters if you cant snap the damn ball

But that was on Cheese?

[Fresh8686]

It was interesting hearing Logan Paulson go into some detail on the struggles of the o-line earlier this week. S. Charles has been getting his ass kicked by J. Allen, but he’s specifically struggling with twists and stunts because he wasn’t being aggressive enough with his punches. This matches with my pre nfl evaluation of Charles which was high athletic upside, but his hands and feet aren’t in sync and he is passive at the point of attack. His style is more to absorb a defender rather than use his hands to disrupt and gain leverage. 

 

Chris Paul isn’t as athletic as Charles, but he’s more aggressive and consistent. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Does the O-line issue start with Gates? and then Wylie?  Howell/Gates  not calling proper protection? I mean Leno is fairly solid, Paul is big time potential and I haven't heard a lot about him getting beat up. Cosmi is our best guy, sooooo who's left?

 

My guess is average at best players (sans Cosmi who is better than average) will get beat up by above average players.    

 

Finlay who is talking a lot today about camp doesn't expect to see a major leap once the season starts.  I suspect he's right.

 

But I think we are poised to go for a ride where when this O line faces mediocre D lines, the mediocrity will be enough to do the job.  But when this mediocre O line faces really good D lines, they will likely have a hard time.

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, MartinC said:

If Ron did someone ‘a favor’ by hiring them for the role that likely dictates if he gets to keep his own job then he’s an idiot. 
 

I don’t think Ron is the best coach in the league, but I don’t think he’s an idiot either. He’s hired EB because he’s been part of a winning organization and system and knows what ‘great’ looks like. He believes he can bring some of that here. 
 

We will see!

Ron is not an idiot, but the game has clearly passed him by. Outside of some kind of absurd fantasy season, I expect the house to be cleaned out after this year when a new GM is brought in. Ron knows this is his last season as a HC.

[redskinss]

50 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Weird, I hear his mother's voice in the back of my head. She's definitely not yelling that...

I figured you were into that kinky **** but I didn't peg you for necrophilia.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

D.  Stromberg has looked all right, needs to get stronger.  they see him as purely a center and not a guard including as a backup.   Larsen he thinks they believe can play guard if need be.  Daniels will likely make the roster because he was a 4th round pick.  He's not sure about whether Mason Brooks does make the roster (practice squad candidate) -- good potential but Rivera also said he has ways to go.

Rivera is going to have to talk down Mason Brooks, especially if he actually shows out.  Everybody is always WAY too worried about not getting a guy to the practice squad. Every year there is fear about getting a guy to the practice squad, and every year, basically if they want to get a guy to the practice squad, they can.  Though if Mason Brooks goes out and pancakes 15 people during a playoff game, I'd question both whether they could get him to the practice squad and should they.

 

The Stromberg and Daniels picks are just looking so "meh" to "blah" at the moment.  Neither is remotely close to competing for a starting job, nor really even the backup job.  So, of your 10 OL, 20% will be on the team with no real chance to play.  That sucks donkey balls.  We need them both to get a hangnail and go on IR for the start of the season. 

 

I do like the idea of having 3 centers, because the last several years, they've needed 3 or 4.  So having 3 guys who can play is very good.  When Nick Martin was playing center last year, it basically just opened a lane up to the QB straight up the middle after he dribbled the ball back to him on the ground.  It was atrocious.  So having 3 guys who can play, I like that.

 

But they're going to have to do some really bizarre things with the OL cuts.  I think they will do this:

 

Starters: Leno, Charles (yetch), Gates, Cosmi, Wylie.  Backups: Lucas (swing tackle), Paul (swing guard), Larsen (Center), Stromburg/Daniels (Red-shirt inactives)  

 

What I think I would prefer knowing nothing and not being a coach or ever having played football, and am probably stupid and wrong:

 

Starters: Leno, Paul, Gates, Cosmi, Wylie.  Backups: Lucas (swing tackle), see if Larsen can be the swing backup interior OL "First in" at either guard spot or center.  Second in would be Stromberg at Center, Brooks/Daniel at Guard.  Cut Charles.  It would be a VERY young group of backups behind the starters.  

 

But I'm biased.  I've only watched Charles fail to block anybody or stay healthy for 3 years.  Maybe he'll surprise the world.  

[Llevron]

35 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Why would Andy Reid “dump” EB off on Ron if they are good friends? I like silly but that’s Naked Gun 33 1/3 level stuff.

 

Defense is legit. Offense is taking their lumps. New system, young QB, suspect OL. Not surprising.

 

What's really silly is not addressing why and how EB stayed with KC all these years if he is just there to yell at people and is terrible at literally everything else to the point that its Andy Ried picking on the poor Redskins again. 

 

Like, why keep that dude around? For fun? Cause of his sun shiny personality? The NFL has never struck me as the type of organization to keep a guy around in a leadership position just as a charity case. Is that really what we are intimating? 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Rivera is going to have to talk down Mason Brooks, especially if he actually shows out.  Everybody is always WAY too worried about not getting a guy to the practice squad. Every year there is fear about getting a guy to the practice squad, and every year, basically if they want to get a guy to the practice squad, they can.  Though if Mason Brooks goes out and pancakes 15 people during a playoff game, I'd question both whether they could get him to the practice squad and should they.

 

 

Probably.  Ron though doesn't tend to talk down players in camp.  Heck he was hyping Fromm in the mix of the QBs in his press conference after Fromm had 3 picks that day.

 

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The Stromberg and Daniels picks are just looking so "meh" to "blah" at the moment.  Neither is remotely close to competing for a starting job, nor really even the backup job.  So, of your 10 OL, 20% will be on the team with no real chance to play.  That sucks donkey balls.  We need them both to get a hangnail and go on IR for the start of the season. 

 

 

I liked the Stromberg pick.  Daniels I was mixed on.  But on the aggregate for me its stunning that in that draft he didn't draft a dude that isn't even in Rivera's eyes a first in line backup let alone starter for 2023.

 

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

I do like the idea of having 3 centers, because the last several years, they've needed 3 or 4.  So having 3 guys who can play is very good. 

 

Agree, its the one thing I liked about their off season as to the O line.