2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

27 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I'm not so sure but hopefully Pringle is here to replace Dax's roster spot and STs play.

 

He did not return kicks last year, but he did it in the preceding seasons. He has never returned punts tho, so I question if he can take the PR job from Dax...

I would have felt better with more solidified competition at the PR spot.

 

Do we really need a PR upgrade? Dax is solid. Doesn't fumble and returns a lot of punts for small yardage (just under 8 yards). Dax does have the most returns in the NFL, so either he just sees a boatload of punts, or he's better at realizing when he doesn't need to fair catch it?

 

Checking back and last season was maybe the best punt return season we've had since early 2010's with Brandon Banks. Jamison Crowder had 1 comparable punt return season to Milne, and 2 worse ones.

 

Really no idea how to evaluate Milne's total returns leading the NFL. I need a PR-to-FairCaught stat or something. Maybe Milne just had an absurd number of punts seen.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

The draft capital rankings feel like a good demonstration of how that kind of heavy resource allocation doesn't readily translate to success.  All of the top drafted lines were bad, particularly in pass protection.  I feel like you can maybe bank on getting a pretty good run blocking line if you overdraft your OL, but not always.  And nothing more than that.

 

 

I don't argue that you can't find O lineman, especially interior ones deeper in the draft. Still its like any spot, if you invest heavily on a spot with high picks, the odds are good you will be good at said spot.  Of course no guarantees though.  Teams that get a lot of hype for their O lines,  Lions 7th, Falcons 3rd, Browns 10th ranking in draft capital.

 

As for the Eagles being an example that you don't need heavy resource allocation.  Not so compared to this team.  They throw more darts by a good margin over this team.   But their first rounder years back was a bust and they landed a stud LT off the streets so that minimizes their draft status numbers.  But they took shots at O line again and again and again.  The last 5 drafts.

 

2023 -- 3rd round

2022 -- 2nd round

2021 -- 2nd round

2020 -- 4th round

2019 -- 1st round

 

Look if i thought Ron showed he was a wiz at finding o lineman later in the draft ala Ismael, S, Charles lets say killed it.   I'd be on board with the point.  I just don't on the aggregate think highly of his acumen on the O line or think he emphasizes it enough.

 

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

We should have kept Trent and Scherff as our stalwarts to achieve this process.  I have always believed that he mis-handled the situations with Trent and Scherff in that first offseason, and that the bill would eventually come due for those mistakes.  He had total power over the team when we lost our two best players from before he got here, for virtually nothing in return, and I have never bought the excuses seeking to put the blame on Dan Snyder or Bruce Allen for that.  Ron was in charge when they left, the buck has to stop with him, and I absolutely believe that if he had wanted to placate those guys and pay them, then they'd still be here. 

 

Following the saga on Trent, I put it 100% on Bruce and Dan.  I don't feel like regurgitating the narrative but among other things a beat guy heard Dan decided that Trent had to go.  Bruce squandered trade value when it was at its height.

 

As for Scherff, Ron tried.  So I don't really fault him much for that either.  Scherff seemed to want to go.  Considering how he's such a quiet-low drama dude -- I gathered he wanted out of that.

 

My fault with Ron is what he did to replace them.  Heck forget the draft picks -- just the salary save alone after losing both players was big.  But Ron didn't do much to reinvest that money back. 

 

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

BTW, I noticed years ago that he could be disingenuous and political in the way he talked to the media and handled the locker room, said as much at the time, and was flamed by just about everyone on the forum for that.

 

 

From what I recall the context then was about Haskins (RIP).  And I just didn't take Haskins side of the narrative on much, I still don't.

 

But fair enough on the point on the aggregate, I didn't see it at that time. Rivera's words and actions sometimes don't match at all.  He can also say something one day, and a month later contradict that and act like his initial statement never happened.

 

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

This argues for the gradually-paced pipeline style approach to building a line.  If you have to overhaul a starting line in an offseason, best to have no more than one rookie on it, and never rookies playing adjacent to each other. 

 

I am good with this approach.  But this is season 4.  He doesn't get a pass from me about hey the O line might have sucked this season but bear with Ron he's still building it.   So for me it better be good.  Heck I could even deal with it in season 3, season 4 takes it too far for me especially considering he actually inherited a very good O line and its regressed under his leadership and in a big way.

 

But to double down on a point I've made for years on the draft thread, nothing to do with this team -- I cited a scout who once said its hard to be a good team with a bad O line.  I felt that way for years.  If I recall so have you.   We talked about it in the context of the demise of the Giants after their SB runs.

 

I think our main difference is simply you are higher on this actual lineup than I am.     I don't think the lineup is a train wreck.  But I do think it likely gets exposed enough to cost them a playoff run.

 

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

So it's not that I don't understand your frustration and criticisms of Ron on these subjects.  I've been there for years.  But I see mitigating arguments for both how he's built the OL, and for the bigger picture of how he's built the organization's football machine itself.  Lacking true high quality stalwarts to buttress the OL pipeline, I still think we can be alright b

 

Yeah we've sort of reversed places.     I've defended Ron plenty including versus you over the years.  And don't get me wrong, I don't really hate anything he's done aside from O line and his strange comments propping Dan Snyder as he was leaving.  I mostly actually like what he's done.  But I don't love it.  And while I've defended Ron's off season approaches which often come off to me as lacking killer instinct because I felt he was still building the team.  I can't do it anymore in year 4 unless it actually works.  i am not signing up for bear with Ron's step by step rebuild, its still a work in progress -- its all about 2024.  For me its enough.

 

Randy Mueller, ex-NFL GM who is a big fan of Ron the person but not so much the GM said it perfectly for me -- to paraphrase but this is almost verbatim -- Ron seems to have no sense of urgency, its like he feels like he has all the job security in the world and is on a 10 year plan.

 

Ron IMO doesn't suck.   He's OK.  If you get me in the right mood i might even say good.  But IMO "good" is his ceiling.  And I think we can aim higher.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Starry Plough]

27 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

If it helps him focus more on his job as Head Football Coach then only good things can come from it. Not saying it is to blame for the gaffes he has made over the past couple of years but maybe not having everything else going on will make his football decision making better?

The ownership situation finally being resolved must be huge for Ron. Bieniemy’s energy (not to mention his role as assistant HC), however, you have to imagine will be equally huge as I’m sure Ron felt everything was on him. I like that he’s finally got the opportunity to do what he was primarily brought in for, as whilst he’s not always handled things perfectly as you say, he’s now getting arguably the fairest crack of the whip of his tenure with the team. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, Starry Plough said:

The ownership situation finally being resolved must be huge for Ron. Bieniemy’s energy (not to mention his role as assistant HC), however, you have to imagine will be equally huge as I’m sure Ron felt everything was on him. I like that he’s finally got the opportunity to do what he was primarily brought in for, as whilst he’s not always handled things perfectly as you say, he’s now getting arguably the fairest crack of the whip of his tenure with the team. 

 

I think he's loving the opposite demeanor and vocalization that Bieniemy has over Turner. He doesn't have to be the taskmaster for underperforming offensive players anymore. Bieniemy will happily tell players they're half assing something.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Apparently we have the least pedigreed O line in the NFL if you factor draft position of the total lineup.

I’ve been screaming about this for years.  And it’s not just Ron.  
 

Something like since we drafted Chris Samuels in 1999, we’ve had 3 OL first round picks, including Samuels + Trent and Scherff  On 25 years!  That’s almost hard to do unless you’re trying.  
 

There are a few second and third rounders, Jansen, Moses, Cosmi, etc.  but not a ton.  
 

They’ve hit on a few late round picks here and there.

 

But going back 25 years, they’ve criminally undervalued the group.  
 

Which isn’t to say this years group couldn’t end up being good enough.  But I’m hoping there is a change in philosophy somehow to add more emphasis to the position group.  I think you really should take an OL in the first 3 round every year.  The 10 OL make up just under 20% of your entire roster.  And I don’t want to hear about “best player available.” Go figure out how to make it happen somehow so you’re not reaching.

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve been screaming about this for years.  And it’s not just Ron.  
 

Something like since we drafted Chris Samuels in 1999, we’ve had 3 OL first round picks, including Samuels + Trent and Scherff  On 25 years!  That’s almost hard to do unless you’re trying.  
 

There are a few second and third rounders, Jansen, Moses, Cosmi, etc.  but not a ton.  
 

They’ve hit on a few late round picks here and there.

 

But going back 25 years, they’ve criminally undervalued the group.  
 

Which isn’t to say this years group couldn’t end up being good enough.  But I’m hoping there is a change in philosophy somehow to add more emphasis to the position group.  I think you really should take an OL in the first 3 round every year.  The 10 OL make up just under 20% of your entire roster.  And I don’t want to hear about “best player available.” Go figure out how to make it happen somehow so you’re not reaching.

 

 

I wouldn't say that.  We went from Samuels to Trent (i.e. when Chris retired, Trent came in the following year).  There was no reason to take a LT for 18 years in the first round!  During Samuels' heyday, we had Jansen, so no need to take a RT with a high pick.  Ditto (with Trent), we had Moses (so we had no need to spend a high pick on a tackle).  We also spent a top 5 pick on Scherff.  They would have taken Ryan Kelly as a center with their first rounder, but he got snatched up.  Luckily, they hit big on Rouiller.  

 

I would categorically disagree with you that the team undervalued OL over the last 25 years.  There was never a need to take one in the first when we constantly had stud bookend tackles for the vast majority of that time.

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’ve been screaming about this for years.  And it’s not just Ron.  
 

Something like since we drafted Chris Samuels in 1999, we’ve had 3 OL first round picks, including Samuels + Trent and Scherff  On 25 years!  That’s almost hard to do unless you’re trying.  
 

There are a few second and third rounders, Jansen, Moses, Cosmi, etc.  but not a ton.  
 

They’ve hit on a few late round picks here and there.

 

But going back 25 years, they’ve criminally undervalued the group.  
 

Which isn’t to say this years group couldn’t end up being good enough.  But I’m hoping there is a change in philosophy somehow to add more emphasis to the position group.  I think you really should take an OL in the first 3 round every year.  The 10 OL make up just under 20% of your entire roster.  And I don’t want to hear about “best player available.” Go figure out how to make it happen somehow so you’re not reaching.

Completely based off memory, the Oline over last 25 years has been solid to good. I’d say it’s been the strength of the last 25 years. 
 

 

Feel free to blast this take with real data lol 

[ntotoro]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

Completely based off memory, the Oline over last 25 years has been solid to good. I’d say it’s been the strength of the last 25 years. 

 

The job Buges did with the O-Line in the Gibbs 2.0 years, considering a lot of the parts he was handed with 87 year-old Ray Brown at Guard and such, was wondrous. The team has been fortunate to have good coaching to keep the Line going, but has wasted a lot over the last few years in terms of resources on it. They had no replacement for Williams. Still really don't. No replacement for Scherff, even if he was drafted too high and/or out of position. I can't even call what Rivera has done with the line a waste since it's not enough to even be a waste!

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Completely based off memory, the Oline over last 25 years has been solid to good. I’d say it’s been the strength of the last 25 years. 
 

 

Feel free to blast this take with real data lol 

Ots been rather mixed here and there, but the issue was there was virtual no depth.  They got great play from guys like Samuels, Trent, Jansen and Cosmi.  And Rouiller was good.  
 

Bur remember when Jay tried to convince us Luavao wasn’t a waste of space? 
 

And then after Trent, Scherff and Rouiller all let at the same time (basically) the line had virtually no good young talent.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Thankfully for everybody's sanity, the next draft class for OT's is supposed to be much better and stacked with elite talent. Dane Brugler said he thinks 5 OT's will go in the first 25 picks next draft.

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Thankfully for everybody's sanity, the next draft class for OT's is supposed to be much better and stacked with elite talent. Dane Brugler said he thinks 5 OT's will go in the first 25 picks next draft.

 

That's all it's going to take for us to get a good line again IMO.  You give us one beast of an OT prospect and a year of experience from dudes like Paul and Cosmi and Stromberg, and I bet the line is pretty good.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

My rejuvenated fandom has me taking my son and friends to camp tomorrow.  I know about parking at DTC, just curious if anyone knows how long the morning session lasts?  11?

 

Chances for autographs better before or after practice.  Many moons ago when we attended, after was the best time.

[skinny21]

16 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, he was the starting left tackle for an undefeated LSU team.  He wasn't a bum in college.  But in the NFL, I think he missed his entire rookie year.  That's far from ideal.  He didn't really cut it at tackle, and now he's competing at guard.

 

What he does (or at least did) possess was good athletic ability.  He could get out and move a bit for a pretty big guy.

 

So, let's play the "if" game:

 

IF Leno stays consistent

IF Charles develops into a solid starting LG

IF Gates stays healthy and provides veteran leadership and solid play at Center

IF Cosmi finds a solid spot at RG, and stays healthy

IF Wylie is a passable RT

 

then the OL is going to be just fine, and maybe even "good."

 

Will all of those things happen? Unlikely.  They will have injuries somewhere, and not every guy is going to develop into the guy they need them to be.  But if....

 

The spots I'm watching most carefully are the 2 guard spots. They NEED Cosmi to just lock down the RG spot and make it a non-issue.  Be good and stay healthy.  Just do it.  At the left side, One of Charles/Paul has to develop into at least an average starter.  I'd say Charles has more athletic ability to do that, but we haven't seen him do it yet.  

 

For the other spots, I just believe Gates is going to be better than the revolving door we have had at Center, and if he goes down, Larsen is back, and they drafted a guy, so we should get better play than we have at center overall. 

 

And I think the tackles are going to be "fine."  Leno should just be the same.  And if Wylie really struggles, Lucas is there.  Lucas is "fine."  I just don't think he should be counted on to play a full season anymore. 

 

If Leno doesn't fall off a cliff and Cosmi is good at RG, I think the line is going to be "ok" with the assumption they have "professional" play at center.  Doesn't have to be great, just has to be better than Martin rolling the ball back to the QB and being pushed on his ass every play.  

 

 

Something I found really interesting (even if I’m not gonna read too much into it) - according to PFR, Larsen took 100% of snaps at C in 7 games for us last year.  The team’s record in those games?  7-1.  The one loss was 17-20 against the Vikes.  He played in one other game (77% of snaps) - the tie against the Giants.

Again, not going to draw any real conclusions from that, but it does match up with the FO talking about the importance of center play, and how injuries at the position affected the team the last 2 years.  

[just654]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My rejuvenated fandom has me taking my son and friends to camp tomorrow.  I know about parking at DTC, just curious if anyone knows how long the morning session lasts?  11?

 

Chances for autographs better before or after practice.  Many moons ago when we attended, after was the best time.

Today's practice was only 90 mins. I would probably guess around the same time tomorrow. Autographs would be after practice. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My rejuvenated fandom has me taking my son and friends to camp tomorrow.  I know about parking at DTC, just curious if anyone knows how long the morning session lasts?  11?

 

Chances for autographs better before or after practice.  Many moons ago when we attended, after was the best time.

 

1.5 to 1 3/4 hour practice.

 

From my experience after practice is much better than before as to autographs.  Rare for me to see autographs happening before.

 

If past is prologue, as for autographs.  Terry, Chase are really good at signing.  From watching videos put on twitter:  Dotson, Howell seem to be generous at signing autographs.  In the past Montez Sweat did at times. 

 

Almost no shot that Jonathan Allen or Payne will sign based on past experiences.

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Something I found really interesting (even if I’m not gonna read too much into it) - according to PFR, Larsen took 100% of snaps at C in 7 games for us last year.  The team’s record in those games?  7-1.  The one loss was 17-20 against the Vikes.  He played in one other game (77% of snaps) - the tie against the Giants.

Again, not going to draw any real conclusions from that, but it does match up with the FO talking about the importance of center play, and how injuries at the position affected the team the last 2 years.  

 

if we had the 2022 schedule again, I'd be much more optimistc.  Ditto if our division foes did nothing to upgrade their D lines.  but in short, I don't think this season will be apples to apples to 2022 as to context.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

1.5 to 1 3/4 hour practice.

 

From my experience after practice is much better than before as to autographs.  Rare for me to see autographs happening before.

 

If past is prologue, as for autographs.  Terry, Chase are really good at signing.  From watching videos put on twitter:  Dotson, Howell seem to be generous at signing autographs.  In the past Montez Sweat did at times. 

 

Almost no shot that Jonathan Allen or Payne will sign based on past experiences.

Thanks.

 

My son is all about Terry, I can see him investing all his time for his.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Thankfully for everybody's sanity, the next draft class for OT's is supposed to be much better and stacked with elite talent. Dane Brugler said he thinks 5 OT's will go in the first 25 picks next draft.

 

We got to hope Howell is the dude.  Because otherwise I'd think they likely use their early draft capital at another spot that seems relatively strong in the draft -- QB.

 

But if Howell is good it changes everything.  The roster thereby would be close.    And they can go to town on the O line.  IMO they need two lineman.  And I suspect it will be a new GM making those moves. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

18 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Ots been rather mixed here and there, but the issue was there was virtual no depth.  They got great play from guys like Samuels, Trent, Jansen and Cosmi.  And Rouiller was good.  
 

Bur remember when Jay tried to convince us Luavao wasn’t a waste of space? 
 

And then after Trent, Scherff and Rouiller all let at the same time (basically) the line had virtually no good young talent.  

Morgan Moses was severely underrated here. I like to compare his career to Ryan Kerrigans, but played a position much harder to quantify.
 

NFL needs to find a way to market Olineman stats—I need to know how many pancakes, take downs, yards behind a guy or anything to hype these guys up. Sacks given up is all they have. 
 

A few names… blast form the past:
 

Derrick Dockery

Chria Chester 

Kory Lit

Casey Rabach

Randy Thomas

Cory Ramer 

Tre Johnson

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Thanks.

 

My son is all about Terry, I can see him investing all his time for his.

 

Terry will typically sign and also take a picture.  He's majorly generous.  As it looks like practice is coming to a close -- head towards the fence that's up against the field, I'd favor sort of the middle area.  Because otherwise the autograph area will typically get crowded. 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Morgan Moses was severely underrated here. I like to compare his career to Ryan Kerrigans, but played a position much harder to quantify.
 

NFL needs to find a way to market Olineman stats—I need to know how many pancakes, take downs, yards behind a guy or anything to hype these guys up. Sacks given up is all they have. 
 

A few names… blast form the past:
 

Derrick Dockery

Chria Chester 

Kory Lit

Casey Rabach

Randy Thomas

Cory Ramer 

Tre Johnson

 

 

Tre Johnson "the banger". Dude was a beast out in space.

 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Just a random observation here comparing the 2022 and 2021 classes. The 3rd and 4th highest drafted QB's (Willis and Corral) might not even make the roster this year. Yet the QB's taken #1, 2, 6, and 9 QB's are projected starters. With the 5th QB taken looking to be a quality career backup.

 

In comparison, the hyped 2021 class with 5 1st rounders is lacking that depth. Only 3 are projected starters (Lawrence, Fields, and Jones) with Mills being a quality career backup. There's a chance Kyle Trask starts, but it's an open competition with Baker Mayfield.

 

2021 QB Class: Five 1st rounders, with 8 total QB's taken in rounds 1-3.

2022 QB Class: One 1st rounder, with 4 total QB's taken in rounds 1-3.

 

Yet the 2022 QB class is currently projected to have more starters. What a whacky scenario. I think we can thank NFL talent evaluators complete inability to scout QB's for Howell.

 

I don't think it's the case that NFL FOs can't scout QBs.  I think they are more expert at it than anyone else in the world, but QB career outcomes are massively contingent on circumstances that can not be predicted pre-draft.

 

QB markets are also really unpredictable and stock valuations are completely different from those for all other positions.  The fact that less than ten of them usually get drafted per year is proof of that.  Teams don't pick QBs when they don't have current job openings for them.  And they will only pick QBs in the draft on the justification of pure BPA when the value gets completely insane for them, like +50 or more.  They know what adding a day one or day two QB prospect into their QB rooms means.  It is always disruptive, and they won't welcome in that disruption unless they think they're getting a massive bargain and hedging their bets at QB with a golden ticket.  It's less the case with day 3 QBs, because at that point you can say you're just picking a benchwarmer/camp body.

 

I liked that 2022 class.  I thought it had an undeserved reputation for sucking.  The prospects were more flawed than usual, but all of the top five QBs had starter upside IMO.  Good teams can (and have) taken flawed QB prospects and developed them into really good players.  Not everyone needs a Joe Burrow or Trevor Lawrence in order to get their guy.  There are potential franchise QBs in every draft class.

 

I wouldn't write Willis off yet, but he is in a funky situation where the Titans have a first round rookie behind a mid round second year guy.  So presumably Willis isn't in the plans to be the long term starter there.  Nor the short term starter, because they still have Tannehill.  We'll see what happens, but I could see him winning the back up role this summer.  He wasn't ready to play last year at all, but this year I could see being different.  Even if he's just auditioning for his next team, I still think he has a shot at becoming a starter eventually.  Tyrod Taylor has played forever, in a variety of roles, and Malik is more talented than him IMO.  Could see a similar trajectory for his career.

 

Matt Corral is the one who I think got screwed by circumstance.  I think he was a pretty good prospect, and had him QB3 and in the top 32.  But losing his entire rookie season to the Lisfranc and then having Bryce Young drafted the next offseason is brutal to his chances for playing.  He's not going to ever get to step on the field for Carolina unless something terrible happens to Young.

 

Ridder's football career is the opposite circumstance.  He's totally charmed.  It's like the sea parted before him and he's now ended up as the default starter in a loaded offense with pretty much the best set of weapons in the league and a high level offensive playcaller as his head coach.  I don't think he is better than Corral or Willis, just luckier.  It's a very Dak Prescott-like career beginning, but I still don't think Atlanta is going to be that good because their defense sucks.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Glad to hear Sam Howell looked sharp today. That’s really the biggest story for me going into camp. The other stuff is way down the list. 
 

We talk about culture a lot, but teams have to learn how to win. I feel like this team just needs a taste of winning to start competing with the better teams in the league.

 

If Howell (and an EB led offense that plays to Sam’s strengths), can put the ball in the end zone, I think you will see a renewed focus and aggression from the defense. 
 

I also wanna tip my hat to Ron. Listening to his presser, you can tell how much happier he seems. I can’t imagine how hard the last few years have been. Thanks for keeping our talent in house and giving us respectability during these dark times. 
 

Excited for the season. 

[PigskinRedskin]

 

Pretty cool shot. Definitely wish I lived closer, it's going to be a blast this year with the rejuvenated energy from having Thou Shall Not Be Named gone and Harris & Co. taking over!

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

55 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Thankfully for everybody's sanity, the next draft class for OT's is supposed to be much better and stacked with elite talent. Dane Brugler said he thinks 5 OT's will go in the first 25 picks next draft.

I mean, that's great to hear, but at this point in the process, means squadoosh.  It was around this time when Howell was a projected #1 overall pick.

 

So much can happen between now and then.

 

Oh, and typical disclaimer that nobody who predicts the draft really knows what is going to happen, or how teams evaluate, etc. etc. etc

29 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Tre Johnson "the banger". Dude was a beast out in space.

True story, dude wasn't looking where he was going at Dulles Town Center and ran right into me and knocked me square across the hallway.  Was very apologetic.  There was a Redskins Store in the mall at that time, and he took me there and bought me a hat.  

 

 

[method man]

Random thought: I wish this team had traded the 2nd round pick + the 3rd round comp pick and moved up to take Bergeron.