KDawg Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 20 minutes ago, Going Commando said: Andrew Thomas was an elite OT prospect too. Not as good as Sewell, but Sewell was the best OT prospect since about Orlando Pace or Joe Thomas times. Prospects for any position don't get better than he was. The guy was the best player in CFB at like 19-20. Similar to how Bowers is at TE. The OT class doesn't have a Thomas or Sewell in it, but it is definitely unusually strong at the top. I'm not the biggest Alt fan because I think he lacks play strength, but he fits in with a top tier of OL that is basically blue chip 20 year olds with elite size. You don't usually get guys with the traits, resumes, and age related upside that he, Fashanu, and Latham all have, much less three in the same class. And they might not even be OL1 because of Fuaga. It's a really good group, and it's going to push OL talent to us in the second round. The one guy I don't see it with is Guyton though. He's not even a good college player, and to me his issues with play strength, physicality, and the ability to hold blocks are so major and fundamental that I don't think he'll even be playable at the NFL level for a while. He's so unready for the next level that I would worry about him getting the kind of runway needed to justify his draft pick, because you can't take a guy in the top 50 and redshirt him for his first two seasons just to teach him how to be an OL and get him strong. The other second round OLs are good though. If they truly have 36"+ arms, then Patrick Paul and Kiran Amegadjie would be first round picks with their physical profiles in other years. Agree on all points (I like Alt more than you.) Guyton doesn’t pass the eye test with me. RE: the edges Verse is fantastic. We agree on him. He’s a really high caliber player. Where we differ (I think slightly) is Latu vs. Chop. I think Latu is incredibly versatile and can play some four front defensive end but would be really, really good as a 3-4 outside backer. Now, most defenses these days are completely multiple. So he’d likely have to do a little of both anyways, so he has value. But I think Chop as a predominantly 4-3 rusher is a special talent. He doesn’t have the versatility Latu does, and with him you limit yourself more with what you do… but he’s good, man. Really good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I think with the QBs who might come up and the WRs who are definitely coming up, OTs are going to get pushed down. As is Bowers. MHj, Nabers, Odunze, all top 10. Then guys like Colman, Franklin, Egbuka, XL Worthy, Thomas All 6'1"+ running sub 4.4 40's or close to it. Possible 9 first round X WRs that could be studs and there are more. Then there is what? 8 or 9 possible OTs in the first round? This draft we need to get a X WR and OT and C, because the class is too good at the top. Top of the second I think we grab one of the 3 OCs, although I like Limmer too, but as a Strom level back up. I don't know how to nail those 3 spots, without trading back though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 30 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Over Marvin Harrison Jr.? Edited January 20 by RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 1/18/2024 at 1:10 PM, The Consigliere said: The easiest way to explain this is: Do you think the Niners saw that Purdy was a monster talent, were genius and decided to let every team in the league have 4-10 bites at the apple before picking him? Or do you think, as I know, that the niners liked him as a QB value dart throw late, and would throw him into the stable while they focused on getting Lance in position to start, and would see and evaluate him in the season and see if they could work him in as a starter? The truth here is that Purdy wasn't a "Plan", he was a speculative value late, that they invested in with no sense in any universe they were taking the best QB from the '21-'22 QB classes combined. They had NO idea Brock Purdy was Brock Purdy which is why they didn't take him in rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 which they 1000% would have if they'd known he was this talented. The sad truth is that the vast majority of elite QB's in this league are 1st round picks, or day 2 guys (and primiarly 1st rounders), day 3 hits happen, but they are so infrequent that literally everyone knows their name. That's why you remember Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Brock Purdy etc. Because they are so exceptionally rare. Do you remember the hundreds of Chris Hakel's, Jordan Palmers and Gibran Hamdans and Cory Conklin's? Nope, for anyone other than Redskins fans, those names fade away into the ether with the rest of the 95% of said day 3 QB's who never make the slightest imprint on NFL history and are totally forgotten. It's not a plan, it's the lottery, the ultimate hail mary. Can they happen? yes, and they do. Usually about 2 of them hit per decade, out of a gigantic pile of failures. This doesn't mean we shouldn't try when we see a profile we like like Purdy's or Howell's, we should, but it's not a plan of any sort, its a speculative dart throw, blindfolded. The chances of success are less than 10%, and by success I mean the QB having any long term utility at all on a roster, actually becoming a good or great QB is even more rare. Sorry for dredging this up from the distant past but I’m so far behind in the thread that I’ll never catch up. As always, you make an excellent point. I don’t disagree with you at all. Assuming it wasn’t addressed by someone already, what generally isn’t taken into account in these early vs. late debates about QBs, or any position really is that it’s also a question of the quality of coaching and the organization. Would Purdy be the same player in a different system? Without Shanahan and his OCs, plus the other players around him? Some QBs are probably going to excel no matter where they land. However, I think most are dependent on how well they’re developed and the supporting cast. With Peters and hopefully Johnson running things, I like our chances of getting the right guy and giving him the best chances for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, RWJ said: Over Marvin Harrison Jr.? That's not a slight on him. It's just that Nabers is also a rare prospect. This draft has ridiculous offensive talent. He's got rare movement skills. He accelerates like DeSean Jackson, Odell Beckham, or Chris Olave. It's effortless. He can keep his head up, not overextend his stride, and react/adjust to what the defense is doing all while still accelerating. He can make cuts without losing speed. It throws off defenders because they don't look like they're suddenly accelerating, but they are. He's also a bit bigger than those guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 10 hours ago, skinsarethebest said: Yes, Jayden Daniels is a reason to not pick Drake Maye. I don't think they're in the same tier, though I do think Daniels explosive combine performance could suggest he is. I much prefer Maye, but fully acknowledge if Daniels hits, he will hit bigger (as long as he can stay healthy). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, RWJ said: Over Marvin Harrison Jr.? I have been watching a lot of both and Nabers might have the edge for me. What Nabers does after the catch is special, he's tough, he's a really good blocker (whenever Jayden Daniels takes off to run both his WRs blocked really well for him), can make contested catches, also go balls and even line up on reverses. My only question about Nabers would be tracking. Daniels has REALLY good ball placement, especially on deep shots, so I do wonder how well he would be able to track the ball with a QB whose ball placement isn't as good. MHJ did have significantly worse QB play this year Edited January 20 by ThatNFLChick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Emphasis on “former”: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandB11 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 18 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Emphasis on “former”: Hmmm.... he was a scout with the Jets. A team that hasnt drafted good qb in 40 years....think I will disregard anything he has to say. Edited January 20 by CommandB11 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Also interesting info Edited January 20 by ThatNFLChick 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) Top 20 Outside CB’s Cooper DeJean Iowa *Would be an excellent FS or CB best pure ball skills of anyone IMO Nate Wiggins Clemson Kool-Aid Mckinstry Alabama Terrion Arnold Alabama Kamari Lassiter Georgia Quinyon Mitchell Toledo Josh Newton TCU T.J. Tampa Iowa State Ennis Rakestraw Jr. Missouri Caelen Carson Wake Forest Kalen King Penn State Elijah Jones Boston College Dwight McGlothern Arkansas Cam Hart Notre Dame D.J. James Auburn Ryan Watts Texas *Ridiculously underrated Jarrian Jones Florida State Quinton Newsome Nebraska *Underrated Khyree Jackson Oregon Carlton Johnson Fresno State * Chigozie Anusiem Colorado State **Sleepers & Risers I think Deantre Prince Ole Miss Marcellas Dial South Carolina Miley Victor Alabama State Josh Wallace Michigan Johnny Dixon Penn State Rayshad Williams Texas Tech Quincy Riley Louisville Max Melton Rutgers Renardo Green Florida State Jarius Monroe Tulane Kamal Hadden Tennessee Tarheeb Still Maryland Decorian Patterson UCF Ro Torrence Arizona State Edited January 21 by Chump Bailey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Hayden Hatten I keep forgetting to check on. Happy to see us have interest in Trey Knox and especially LB Darius Muasau. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Would be amazing to get future QB and LT with picks #2 and #36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said: Also interesting info All pretty decent day 3 guys like Knox and Muasau Barrington is a C-LG Hattan is a good WR and return guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 7 hours ago, The Sisko said: Sorry for dredging this up from the distant past but I’m so far behind in the thread that I’ll never catch up. As always, you make an excellent point. I don’t disagree with you at all. Assuming it wasn’t addressed by someone already, what generally isn’t taken into account in these early vs. late debates about QBs, or any position really is that it’s also a question of the quality of coaching and the organization. Would Purdy be the same player in a different system? Without Shanahan and his OCs, plus the other players around him? Some QBs are probably going to excel no matter where they land. However, I think most are dependent on how well they’re developed and the supporting cast. With Peters and hopefully Johnson running things, I like our chances of getting the right guy and giving him the best chances for success. Your point is why some of us don't want to give up on Sam Howell even if/when we do take a QB at pick #2. I agree, good coaching is paramount as well as patience and playing experience. Baker Mayfied is starting to figure it out as is Jordan Love and some others to a lesser extent. These kids take time and patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I think it’s a good social experiment to see how many times people repeat themselves without changing their stance or adding new evidence to support claims. Long three months. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsarethebest Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 10 hours ago, KDawg said: Why do you feel that way? I’m not disregarding your opinion. I just don’t understand it. Two reasons: I’m incredibly impressed with how much Jayden Daniels has grown over the course of a single year. The fact that he’s trending upwards, versus perhaps even regressing in his final college year the way Williams and Maye have (arguably) done is significant. To me it indicates an intangible : dedication and ability to learn, which can’t really be taught. Secondly, I think his style of play fits better with the modern NFL and where it’s trending as well. He’s a legit dual threat, and frankly I think I would just flat out enjoy watching him every Sunday much more than I would Maye. lastly, and I confess this is probably a flimsy reason, the fact that Drake Maye came out of the same program as Sam Howell (whom I do consider to be a mediocre QB at best, sorry to all the Howell fans) bothers me and concerns me. and if the whole point of drafting a QB at #2 is to really swing for the fences, then Jayden is your choice. Most people agree that Maye is the #2 to Williams #1. So we would be getting someone almost as good as Caleb but not quite as good (unless of course Caleb is a bust). But Jayden, if he really does continue to develop, arguably has a higher ceiling than even Caleb Williams, by some accounts. If you really want to swing for the fences, then really swing for the fences: Jayden Daniels. Edited January 20 by skinsarethebest 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 13 minutes ago, skinsarethebest said: Two reasons: I’m incredibly impressed with how much Jayden Daniels has grown over the course of a single year. The fact that he’s trending upwards, versus perhaps even regressing in his final college year the way Williams and Maye have (arguably) done is significant. To me it indicates an intangible : dedication and ability to learn, which can’t really be taught. Secondly, I think his style of play fits better with the modern NFL and where it’s trending as well. He’s a legit dual threat, and frankly I think I would just flat out enjoy watching him every Sunday much more than I would Maye. lastly, and I confess this is probably a flimsy reason, the fact that Drake Maye came out of the same program as Sam Howell (whom I do consider to be a mediocre QB at best, sorry to all the Howell fans) bothers me and concerns me. and if the whole point of drafting a QB at #2 is to really swing for the fences, then Jayden is your choice. Most people agree that Maye is the #2 to Williams #1. So we would be getting someone almost as good as Caleb but not quite as good (unless of course Caleb is a bust). But Jayden, if he really does continue to develop, arguably has a higher ceiling than even Caleb Williams, by some accounts. If you really want to swing for the fences, then really swing for the fences: Jayden Daniels. I can live with Daniels but he’s incredibly raw and his flaws are way more of a red flag than Maye, who has elite physical traits, advanced mental game, and has a style of play more sustainable for long term success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I still want Maye above all else but if Macdonald is our coach, I can live with Daniels at QB. He'll know how to design an offense that fits him since he kinda comps to Lamar Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: I can live with Daniels but he’s incredibly raw and his flaws are way more of a red flag than Maye, who has elite physical traits, advanced mental game, and has a style of play more sustainable for long term success. Raw? Is he? I have not heard that tossed around too much. When I think of raw I think Trey Lance territory. Jayden has like double the games played and hundreds more pass attempts than Williams and Maye and they clear "raw" identification by a mile in my book. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Just now, FootballZombie said: Raw? Is he? I have not heard that tossed around too much. When I think of raw I think Trey Lance territory. Jayden has like double the games played and hundreds more pass attempts than Williams and Maye and they clear "raw" identification by a mile in my book. He's raw af as a passer and actually running a passing offense. He's one read and run and struggles big time attacking the middle of the field. He also doesn't really zip his passes but tends to throw with an arc. Heck of a deepball though. He has way more pass attempts than Maye because he's two years older. Guy played five years of college ball. A lot easier to dominate and rack up stats when you're 23 playing against 19-21 year olds. And have a much more stacked team around you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: He's raw af as a passer and actually running a passing offense. He's one read and run and struggles big time attacking the middle of the field. He also doesn't really zip his passes but tends to throw with an arc. Heck of a deepball though. He has way more pass attempts than Maye because he's two years older. Guy played five years of college ball. A lot easier to dominate and rack up stats when you're 23 playing against 19-21 year olds. And have a much more stacked team around you. He does not struggle attacking or throwing to the middle. What is this based on? Certainly not the actual tape or any numbers? Also not the "stacked team" thing again lol. Someone tell me what Nabers and Thomas's numbers were before Daniels got to LSU (I'll give a hint, neither even had 450 yards and both had less than 5 TDs).... Edited January 21 by ThatNFLChick 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandB11 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 6 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: He does not struggle attacking or throwing to the middle. What is this based on? Certainly not the actual tape or any numbers? Also not the "stacked team" thing again lol. Someone tell me what Nabers and Thomas's numbers were before Daniels got to LSU (I'll give a hint, neither even had 450 yards and both had less than 5 TDs).... Please name one reciever that has played with Maye that has been/will be drafted top 10.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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