The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

Why on Earth would Josh Harris wait until after free agency started to bring in his new GM and coaching staff John Keim?

Pretty clear he’s implying you can only force one to negotiate with the franchise tag, and the other won’t want to be here. So if you don’t trade (Sweat if I’m inferring correctly) now then one is just hitting FA for nothing. Another situation of spilled milk that the next regime walks into. 

[method man]

Based on the contract Gary just got, I wonder if EDGE is starting to get treated like QB in that above average guys get paid so much in terms of gross dollars that they hamstring the cap down the line. 

[MrJL]

I'm  cool with the conditional on signing a contract second cause I think it'd be likely

Just now, method man said:

Based on the contract Gary just got, I wonder if EDGE is starting to get treated like QB in that above average guys get paid so much in terms of gross dollars that they hamstring the cap down the line. 

Starting? I thought that was already true?

[method man]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

Pretty clear he’s implying you can only force one to negotiate with the franchise tag, and the other won’t want to be here. So if you don’t trade (Sweat if I’m inferring correctly) now then one is just hitting FA for nothing. Another situation of spilled milk that the next regime walks into. 

I may be wrong on this but I seem to recall both guys share the same agent, making it even tougher for us to negotiate 

[KDawg]

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to grasp that the situation with the franchise dictates the likelihood we lose one or both of the ends for nothing if we don’t trade them. 
 

That is the reality. 
 

I’d rather keep 99 because of the upside if we had to pick. Toohill will be fine on the other side. Added resources helps and Chase Young with a new regime could live up to his hype. But he’ll be on the tag so that shouldn’t be a long term plan, either.

[method man]

1 minute ago, MrJL said:

I'm  cool with the conditional on signing a contract second cause I think it'd be likely

Starting? I thought that was already true?

Probably already true but a non Pro Bowler like Gary getting what he just did just absolutely reset the market for EDGEs

[Conn]

Sweat will be a better version of himself elsewhere, I’m sure, but we won’t miss him. The flash sack/pressure stats our EDGE guys compile rarely change games against decent or better teams. They feast on bad teams, disappear against good teams. QB’s have forever to throw, and even when we shut down running games (which isn’t nearly often enough)—you can pay somebody less to specialize in that.
 

Maybe all this would change under a new coaching staff, maybe it wouldn’t. Either way those cap dollars can be better spent elsewhere. Just because we CAN pay all the guys incompetent decision-makers mistakenly over-invested in doesn’t mean we should. I can almost guarantee that this defense under the next staff will play noticeably better by being leaner on resources, hungrier, less pedigreed. Because they’re that bad and disappointing in relation to investment right now. 

[justice98]

58 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to grasp that the situation with the franchise dictates the likelihood we lose one or both of the ends for nothing if we don’t trade them. 
 

That is the reality. 
 

I’d rather keep 99 because of the upside if we had to pick. Toohill will be fine on the other side. Added resources helps and Chase Young with a new regime could live up to his hype. But he’ll be on the tag so that shouldn’t be a long term plan, either.

 

But I feel like the new head coach, DC, and GM need to be making that decision, not Rivera and Mayhew.  I'd rather the new people evaluate and decide what their vision is and who they want, rather than Rivera (or even Harris) telling them which one they're gonna have.  

 

Keeping them to the end of the season doesn't eliminate the possibility of getting an asset in return, it just eliminates the guarantee of it.

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

But I feel like the new head coach, DC, and GM need to be making that decision, not Rivera and Mayhew.  I'd rather the new people evaluate and decide what their vision is and who they want, rather than Rivera (or even Harris) telling them which one they're gonna have.  

 

Keeping them to the end of the season doesn't eliminate the possibility of getting an asset in return, it just eliminates the guarantee of it.

It very well may actually, because you can only force one of those EDGE guys to negotiate with you via the Franchise Tag. Whoever doesn’t get tagged can walk, no questions asked, unless they want to negotiate on their own. Keim seems to be giving the vibe that Sweat at least doesn’t  want to be here. So if you have to franchise Young, Sweat just leaves for nothing, nothing the new GM can do about it. 
 

If you know that’s happening, it’s malpractice to not try to get something for him now. Like I said already, this is spilled milk, no going back when Rivera’s FO already let these guys hit FA at the same time. Now we have to deal with it. 
 

We just don’t have enough information on these guys and their mindsets. I would guess Keim has more of an idea though. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Conn

[philibusters]

Looking at possible free agents (obviously a lot of guys will be resigned before they hit the market), we should be able to upgrade TE (though Thomas is playing well right now), LB, and corner.   

 

In terms of O-Line, we are going to have to do it in the draft because this O-Line is unimpressive.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all//

[Warhead36]

I don't think OL is AS big of an issue if we can maintain this scheme of quick passes and Howell can develop. A good starting QB can get by with an average OL.

 

Not saying I wouldn't invest into the unit, but its not something I'd go too crazy in FA over. Some of the higher priced FA OL have struggled big time for their new teams.

[HigSkin]

😂

 

 

[Ball Security]

Wouldn’t Atl just give Sweat the franchise tag and then extend him after the draft to keep their second rounder?

[KDawg]

23 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

But I feel like the new head coach, DC, and GM need to be making that decision, not Rivera and Mayhew.  I'd rather the new people evaluate and decide what their vision is and who they want, rather than Rivera (or even Harris) telling them which one they're gonna have.  

 

Keeping them to the end of the season doesn't eliminate the possibility of getting an asset in return, it just eliminates the guarantee of it.

They are both free agents. By the time the GM/HC are in we will be close to FA and they are going to have a lot on their plates. 
 

Nothing says they want to be here even with them.

 

I agree I don’t want this crew making that call. But this is where Harris and his team need to make it.

 

Generally we look at owners meddling as bad but this is kind of a special circumstance.

 

If they trade folks I will assume they did precursory convos with their agents and they don’t like the chances of getting them back… at least until we hear otherwise that will be my assumption. 
 

And in my opinion that is smart business.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Washington also must weigh getting a guaranteed draft pick in 2023 as opposed to a possible compensatory pick -- a third-rounder at best -- in 2024 if Young and/or Sweat leaves via free agency this offseason.

It's also an organization that has a new owner in Josh Harris mixed with a football staff -- coaches and front office -- that might need to win now in order to keep their jobs. But, multiple sources have said, Harris' method of operation is to collect as much information as possible about any possible moves before making a decision. He does not act in a rash manner, according to multiple people who have worked for him in various capacities.

"I'm not going to answer any questions on personnel," coach Ron Rivera said after the game when asked about the trade deadline and potential moves.

 

Instead, his mind was on a third loss in four games by one score -- two of which occurred vs. the Eagles. Philadelphia beat them 34-31 in overtime earlier in the month.

"If you can do that against an elite team in the NFL, you should be able to do it anytime you want," Rivera said.

But Friday, Rivera said, "People are reaching out, but for the most part, nothing really matters until it gets serious. We're just going to wait things out.

"All this is speculation, nobody knows what's really happening on the outside."

Washington also has other pending free agents, including running back Antonio Gibson, receiver Curtis Samuel and safety Kamren Curl. However, most of the talk has focused on other players.

 

Sweat has drawn the most attention; Atlanta will be a team to watch, according to a source. Though Washington has received one offer for Sweat, it's uncertain if it's enough to complete the trade. Another team source said other teams have been calling on Sweat and Young for a few months, knowing their contract situations.

Sweat has 6.5 sacks this season and 34.5 in his career. Washington drafted him with the 27th overall pick in 2019. He missed seven games because of injuries, COVID and a personal matter in 2021 but has not missed a game in his other five seasons.

"That thought goes across your mind," Young said about Sunday possibly being his last game with Washington. "You hate to think like that, but it's out of my control."

 

For a lot of the offseason, one source said Washington wanted to try to extend Sweat. However, with the ownership change not taking place until late July, it delayed work on possible extensions for Sweat or any other player, according to multiple sources.

Washington declined to pick up Young's fifth-year option in the spring. Rivera said he hoped it would motivate Young the same way it did the previous year when Payne entered the season as a pending free agent only to record 11.5 sacks and earn a four-year contract worth up to $90 million from Washington.

But, a source said, they also wanted to see how Young's knee responded after his 2021 surgery to repair a torn ACL and ruptured patellar tendon in his right knee. He returned to play the final three games of 2022. Washington would have entertained a trade for him before the draft, one source said, but the Commanders did not receive offers on Young.

 

One league source said some teams might still be wary of how his knee will hold up over the course of a season. The source said that could depress his value. However, Young has five sacks in sacks in seven games played. He also has the highest pass ruh win rate among the defensive linemen at 24.8 %; Sweat's rate is 7.6%.

 

"My job is to play football and that's what I'll continue to do," Young said. "I don't worry. That's why you've got God. I don't worry about nothing."

Young, who grew up in the Washington, D.C., area, said he still likes playing in his hometown.

"For sure. I love Washington," he said.

 

Quarterback Jacoby Brissett also could draw interest because of his position. However, it's hard to imagine Washington trading Brissett, even though he, too, is a free agent after the season. One team source said they prefer to keep him for two reasons: He's a strong mentor to quarterback Sam Howell, and they haven't abandoned the idea of making a playoff push, even if they've lost five of the last six games. After all, in each of the past three seasons Washington has made a strong push during the middle of the season to climb into playoff contention.

 

So, if something were to happen to Howell, they want to make sure they're covered.

At one point this summer, while the conversation focused on Howell and his development, Rivera said, "Don't sleep on Jacoby." Rivera has championed Brissett's value to the team since they signed him in the offseason.

Because of that, it likely would take more than a low-round pick to even consider trading Brissett.

Regardless of what happens, it's a perilous time for Washington.

 

"You try not to let it be our focus," Commanders receiver Terry McLaurin said. "We're just focused on playing football for each other. We're all human; we're a close group of guys so to see anyone leave this team would be tough. It's part of the business of football. Whoever is here next week we're going to find a way to see how we can come back better to beat New England."

Edited October 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Ball Security]

Nobody is offering anything for Kendall Fuller?

[oraphus]

i would honesty want to move them both  (Sweat and Young)  if i had the option to keep one.. i would absolutely keep Sweat - consistent production, health - good but not great.

I dont trust Young.. his game, or his commitment once he gets paid. If you dont trade him now.. you're basically hoping for a comp pic in 25

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Warhead36]

Would love to get the Falcons 2nd rounder for Sweat. That would represent decent value at least.

[MAATopDogg]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Sweat for Kyle Pitts. I’m in.

 

We’re going to get a 4th rounder and even I am going to hate it.

I'd take that trade all day. Did Atlanta try and trade him a few months ago?

[GoDeep81]

Just read something scary. With the QB's going down around the league, we have as much a chance at #7 as anyone, so Ron won't make any moves at the deadline. 

[skinsfan66]

I was all for not trading Young last year. He has value now. Sweat is the pick for me to trade for a 3/2 pick. Maybe a 4th to the right team and another pick or pick swaps. I would trade Brissett, Samuels, Gibson, better to get something now thin later if you can. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

They have produced.  Chase and Montez already have 11.5 sacks between them and Chase is near the top of the league in basically every pressure statistic.  They have been great this season, and the way we are supposed to operate is that when guys produce big seasons for us, they get paid.  That's the deal. It's the whole reason we stupidly declined Chase's fifth year option.  Why is the deal suddenly changing for them?

 

Guys earn contracts based on what they do as individuals.  You don't make decisions about what to pay them based on what their teammates or their coaches are doing.  You base the decision on what they themselves have done and are capable of doing.

 

Trading Montez or Chase at the deadline in a year where they are playing well seems so far off of Ron's philosophy and MO that I can only suspect that this is being driven by ownership.  And that is unacceptable to me if true.  If it turns out that Harris is forcing Ron to make changes to his roster midseason, then I don't want to see anyone giving Harris a pass for this. That kind of direct meddling with a roster midseason is absolutely never OK under any circumstances from ownership.

 

This does a feel a bit like their stripping the car down to the bolts just for the sake of doing it.

 

I've always been opposed to trades where your hope is that you will use the capital acquired to draft a player as good as the player you traded.

 

Our hope is that in three years, we will have players as good as Young and Sweat.

 

In the NFL, I think you should always be trading "for" something specifically.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

10 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Just read something scary. With the QB's going down around the league, we have as much a chance at #7 as anyone, so Ron won't make any moves at the deadline. 

 

The thing about having three wild cards is that almost no one is out of the race until deep into December. As long as you have a reasonable path to 8 wins, you have some hope.

 

In looking at the schedule, I think it's reasonable to be favored in 4 of the remaining games (Pats, Giants, Rams, Jets).

 

The rest of the schedule is pretty brutal, but is it insane to think that 4-interception Dak game or Tua injury can get this team to 8 wins? 

[philibusters]

9 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

This does a feel a bit like their stripping the car down to the bolts just for the sake of doing it.

 

I've always been opposed to trades where your hope is that you will use the capital acquired to draft a player as good as the player you traded.

 

 

I don't think you have to use the draft capital to draft a player as good as the player you traded in order for the trade to be a success.  As long as you get a multiple year starter out of the trade I think you can win (everything depends on the situation).  I think that is a win because of the way rookie contracts work where rookie starters bring great surplus value particularly if they play a premium position like QB, WR, Edge, DT, OT, or CB.  For example Jahan Dotson seems like an alright pick, not great, not bad, but with a cap hit of 3.4 million, he is bringing in nice surplus value.

Edited October 30, 2023 by philibusters