The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[MrJL]

I've seen their names mentioned a few times, but I think the amount of danger Andrew Norwell and Cornelius Lucas are of being cut is overlooked.  If we draft a guard in the first two rounds he's going to be expected to start and I don't think Norwell is even a swing guard to be a backup.  Meanwhile if we draft a tackle then Wylie gets kicked inside which also means goodbye to Norwell, but I think Wylie would still backup at RT and we also signed the cheaper Trent Scott as a potential swing tackle

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

I've seen their names mentioned a few times, but I think the amount of danger Andrew Norwell and Cornelius Lucas are of being cut is overlooked.  If we draft a guard in the first two rounds he's going to be expected to start and I don't think Norwell is even a swing guard to be a backup.  Meanwhile if we draft a tackle then Wylie gets kicked inside which also means goodbye to Norwell, but I think Wylie would still backup at RT and we also signed the cheaper Trent Scott as a potential swing tackle

I have as much of a chance of making the roster as Norwell does.  He’s going to be released.  Ron already said the starting LG battle was between the guy they drafted last year (I can never remember his name) and Charles.  
 

I think depending on what they do in the draft, the guy who’s going to be unexpectedly on the bubble is Charles.  No well is gone.  Charles could be the third string guard. 
 

Tackle is interesting.  If they kick Cosmi inside, they signed a new starting RT in FA, then right now Leno is your starting LT and Lucas is the swing backup.

 

but if they draft a guy who’s a projected starter, then they bumps Leno to the bench, and you have both Leno and Lucas as backups. Honestly, I’d take that.  But they’d have to redo Leno’s deal.  
 

One of the two will define be around.  But both? Depends on the draft. 

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have as much of a chance of making the roster as Norwell does.  He’s going to be released.  Ron already said the starting LG battle was between the guy they drafted last year (I can never remember his name) and Charles.  
 

I think depending on what they do in the draft, the guy who’s going to be unexpectedly on the bubble is Charles.  No well is gone.  Charles could be the third string guard. 
 

Tackle is interesting.  If they kick Cosmi inside, they signed a new starting RT in FA, then right now Leno is your starting LT and Lucas is the swing backup.

 

but if they draft a guy who’s a projected starter, then they bumps Leno to the bench, and you have both Leno and Lucas as backups. Honestly, I’d take that.  But they’d have to redo Leno’s deal.  
 

One of the two will define be around.  But both? Depends on the draft. 

LG he said was between Paul and Charles. They also signed Scott, at PITT last season, to add tackle depth. He actually graded our decent as their swing tackle last year.

 

And those confusingly are all surnames 

 

Norwell is a goner as you say. Roullier the other on the watch list.

[CommDownMan]

21 hours ago, srtman04 said:

 

How is this even legal?   Why is the $255 million extension not counted in these numbers???

 

So the Guaranteed is like 180mill and it was a 5 year extension,  so 6 years overall.   The average guaranteed then is 30 mill per.   Add in a few void years and these numbers looking good the first 4 years make sense.   

 

If year 5 he's still playing well,  they convert some of the non guaranteed 70 million into bonus again it will be worse then this first 4 year numbers, but probably not terrible. 

 

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m pretty sure the max for void years is 2.

 

You also have to be careful with voidable years.  If you cut/trade the player, the whole thing accelerates to the current year. 
 

Eventually, your cap is going to see all of the guaranteed money.  

 

I thought we saw some teams do deals with 3 years, but I can't remember now. 

 

Edit:

2 links.   Obj had 4 years void.   Reasons in link below. 

 

Based on this hurts does not have void years, however by triggering bonuses over several years, maybe that counts as new money and voidable years can be added.   Don't have time to search this one right now. Since the quote below says years left,  a bonus in year 3 likely means that can have voided years added. 

  https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/04/12/inside-the-obj-deal/

 

 

Since a bonus can be prorated over a maximum of five seasons, the highest number of void years that can be added to a contract is five minus the number of years left on the contract the player is currently on. 

 

https://sumersports.com/the-zone/void-years-explained/#:~:text=Since a bonus can be,the player is currently on.

Edited April 21, 2023 by CommDownMan

[CommDownMan]

On 4/19/2023 at 2:19 PM, Koolblue13 said:

It's not disingenuous. You have to be able to tell the difference and how these two contracts will affect their teams differently over the next few years.

 

Eagles- Great deal

Giants- Bad deal.

 

So one more note.   

 

I agree the jones contract is bad, but some of this is just situation.

 

Jones was a first round pick and didn't get the 5th option picked up.   As soon as he played well enough to stay, his year one was looking at a franchise tag level year one. 

 

Hurts was a 2nd round pick and this year was going to be super cheap no matter what.   He played well before they had to decide on tag and by rewarding him early the leverage was slightly better for them.

 

Fully agree that the Eagles did better,  but other than enjoying the giants getting **** on, I don't think its really a apples to apples comparison. 

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have as much of a chance of making the roster as Norwell does.  He’s going to be released.  Ron already said the starting LG battle was between the guy they drafted last year (I can never remember his name) and Charles.  
 

I think depending on what they do in the draft, the guy who’s going to be unexpectedly on the bubble is Charles.  No well is gone.  Charles could be the third string guard. 
 

Tackle is interesting.  If they kick Cosmi inside, they signed a new starting RT in FA, then right now Leno is your starting LT and Lucas is the swing backup.

 

but if they draft a guy who’s a projected starter, then they bumps Leno to the bench, and you have both Leno and Lucas as backups. Honestly, I’d take that.  But they’d have to redo Leno’s deal.  
 

One of the two will define be around.  But both? Depends on the draft. 

I am not sure there are any players ready to replace Leno right away. If they do draft a player for that purpose, they could start at LG then move to LT or they start at LT and move Leno to start at LG. I see Leno as safe. Charles and Norwell gone. Lucas could be gone with the Scott brought in as a swing

[method man]

10 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I am not sure there are any players ready to replace Leno right away. If they do draft a player for that purpose, they could start at LG then move to LT or they start at LT and move Leno to start at LG. I see Leno as safe. Charles and Norwell gone. Lucas could be gone with the Scott brought in as a swing

 

Scott is likely nothing more than a training camp body who provides additional depth on the practice squad as a backup swing tackle. I don't get the push on this board by some to cut Lucas. He is one of the best backup swing tackles in the league at a reasonable salary and has had to play a lot since he got here.

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Scott is likely nothing more than a training camp body who provides additional depth on the practice squad as a backup swing tackle. I don't get the push on this board by some to cut Lucas. He is one of the best backup swing tackles in the league at a reasonable salary and has had to play a lot since he got here.

Yeah Lucas and Leno have been proven to be excellent acquisitions and have not killed the cap

[method man]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yeah Lucas and Leno have been proven to be excellent acquisitions and have not killed the cap

 

I also think one possibility they should consider more seriously is drafting Harrison and moving Leno to RT because Harrison can't play anywhere else on the OL. However, due to Leno's place as a team leader, I really doubt they do that

[DWinzit]

15 minutes ago, method man said:

 

I also think one possibility they should consider more seriously is drafting Harrison and moving Leno to RT because Harrison can't play anywhere else on the OL. However, due to Leno's place as a team leader, I really doubt they do that

It is a move I like, I am a big fan of Harrison. However this doesn't fit RR's past as Harrison can only play one position.

I have a gut feel that they like B Jones who they could possibly start at RT or LG right away.

[method man]

22 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

It is a move I like, I am a big fan of Harrison. However this doesn't fit RR's past as Harrison can only play one position.

I have a gut feel that they like B Jones who they could possibly start at RT or LG right away.

 

Maybe on Jones. They haven't been scared historically of taking rawer athletic players. They did that in 2021 with Cosmi and Davis. However, they went for the finished product veteran players with clean technique in Dotson, Mathis and BRob this year. Given Ron is fighting for his job, I expect him to go the 2022 strategy route and attempt to pick up surefire Day 1 starters or at least major contributors in rounds 1 and 2

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Not sure where to put this or if it's already been posted, but...been nice knowing ya, Shaka...

 

 

 

[KDawg]

Shaka Toney just opened up a possible roster spot. Well done.

 

Now I'm worried others did it. 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, KDawg said:

Shaka Toney just opened up a possible roster spot. Well done.

 

Now I'm worried others did it. 

It's going to get worse before it gets better.

 

The thing that kills me is that NFL owners are allowed to own sports betting books. That's a HUGE conflict of interest for me. 

 

Sports betting has and will continue to ruin lives. I know it's a fun distraction for most of us, but for others it's a slippery slope. 

[DWinzit]

WOW, I had not heard this...that sucks I liked him

[Ball Security]

I would like to understand why someone gets 6 games, but others get indefinite suspensions.  

[Tress Is The Way]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

I would like to understand why someone gets 6 games, but others get indefinite suspensions.  

More than likely...

 

6 games to players betting in legal gambling

IS for players betting in illegal gambling.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I thought he was pretty solid.

 

I don't care if people gamble on sports.  Speaking for myself, I don't because I know enough about myself not to get started and go down that rabbit hole.  

 

But I believe the NFL and the other leagues are really, really going to regret getting in bed with Draft Kings, Fan Duel and whatever else happens.  Suspend a few players here and there, these things will get swept under the rug.  But when it comes to light that a ref or an umpire is on the take, or if a REALLY big name like Mahomes or Dak (that'd be awesome, not gonna lie) goes down, it's going to be a ****show.

 

The NBA somehow swept the Donaghey thing under the rug but if these things keep cropping up it's going to be hard to do.

[MrJL]

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have as much of a chance of making the roster as Norwell does.  He’s going to be released.  Ron already said the starting LG battle was between the guy they drafted last year (I can never remember his name) and Charles.  
 

I think depending on what they do in the draft, the guy who’s going to be unexpectedly on the bubble is Charles.  No well is gone.  Charles could be the third string guard. 
 

Tackle is interesting.  If they kick Cosmi inside, they signed a new starting RT in FA, then right now Leno is your starting LT and Lucas is the swing backup.

 

but if they draft a guy who’s a projected starter, then they bumps Leno to the bench, and you have both Leno and Lucas as backups. Honestly, I’d take that.  But they’d have to redo Leno’s deal.  
 

One of the two will define be around.  But both? Depends on the draft. 

 

Leno has a 12.5 million cap hit.  He's not being a backup.  I was in favor of him moving to RT but I found an article suggesting he's actually much better at LT.  Of course it was a pretty old article,

[The Rook]

8 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I would like to understand why someone gets 6 games, but others get indefinite suspensions.  

 

Betting on NFL - indefinite suspension

Betting on anything other than NFL while on team/NFL property - 6 games

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Voice_of_Reason]

54 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Leno has a 12.5 million cap hit.  He's not being a backup.  I was in favor of him moving to RT but I found an article suggesting he's actually much better at LT.  Of course it was a pretty old article,

But they already have 3 guys who could play RT: Cosmi, Lucas and Wiley.  
 

They’ve said the current plan is Wiley at RT, Cosmi at RG, Gates at center.

 

With Charles and Chris Paul competing for LG, and at current, Lucas at LT.

 

Norwell is going to be cut.

 

I would love to see them draft another LT.  I think Paul might be something at RG.  He had rave reviews from training camp last year.  
 

Lucas is a good swing tackle.

 

if they could draft another tackle, they could restructure Leno and keep New Guy, Leno, Lucas and Wylie. That’s 4 guys who can play tackle and Cosmi is your backup in a pinch. 
 

I would also draft a guard and then your guards are Cosmi, Paul, New Guard. 
 

Centers are Gates and Larsen.  Rouiller is cut or retires. 
 

thar 9, and you typically carry 10.  And there’s a huge competition for the last OL spot.

 

That wpuld be really good.

 

I wouldn’t mind if they went tackle, Guard in rounds 1 and 2.

[method man]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But they already have 3 guys who could play RT: Cosmi, Lucas and Wiley.  
 

They’ve said the current plan is Wiley at RT, Cosmi at RG, Gates at center.

 

With Charles and Chris Paul competing for LG, and at current, Lucas at LT.

 

Norwell is going to be cut.

 

I would love to see them draft another LT.  I think Paul might be something at RG.  He had rave reviews from training camp last year.  
 

Lucas is a good swing tackle.

 

if they could draft another tackle, they could restructure Leno and keep New Guy, Leno, Lucas and Wylie. That’s 4 guys who can play tackle and Cosmi is your backup in a pinch. 
 

I would also draft a guard and then your guards are Cosmi, Paul, New Guard. 
 

Centers are Gates and Larsen.  Rouiller is cut or retires. 
 

thar 9, and you typically carry 10.  And there’s a huge competition for the last OL spot.

 

That wpuld be really good.

 

I wouldn’t mind if they went tackle, Guard in rounds 1 and 2.

 

They can put Larsen on PUP like they did last season so that he doesn't take up a roster spot going into the season. Once someone goes down in the first six weeks, they will activate him.

[petey hodge]

we need ZAVA

 

[Est.1974]

Wonder if we’ll see a contract extension/ rework for Samuel. Could be a post draft move to create cap space. He’s clearly not going anywhere. Bieniemy must like what he sees.
 

 

[Koolblue13]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But they already have 3 guys who could play RT: Cosmi, Lucas and Wiley.  
 

They’ve said the current plan is Wiley at RT, Cosmi at RG, Gates at center.

 

With Charles and Chris Paul competing for LG, and at current, Lucas at LT.

 

Norwell is going to be cut.

 

I would love to see them draft another LT.  I think Paul might be something at RG.  He had rave reviews from training camp last year.  
 

Lucas is a good swing tackle.

 

if they could draft another tackle, they could restructure Leno and keep New Guy, Leno, Lucas and Wylie. That’s 4 guys who can play tackle and Cosmi is your backup in a pinch. 
 

I would also draft a guard and then your guards are Cosmi, Paul, New Guard. 
 

Centers are Gates and Larsen.  Rouiller is cut or retires. 
 

thar 9, and you typically carry 10.  And there’s a huge competition for the last OL spot.

 

That wpuld be really good.

 

I wouldn’t mind if they went tackle, Guard in rounds 1 and 2.

Wiley is barely better than Lucas. RT is a hole. Leno is a fine starter at LT. If we draft a OT, he'll start on the right for at least this year, while Leno locks the left down.

 

Gates is a meh starter too, so I wouldn't think anything on the Oline is a lock. Roullier is the only player on the line capable of above average play and everyone assumes that he's getting cut.

 

We have a bunch of guys who can kinda play all the positions along the line, but nobody that plays it well (except Roullier). 

 

That's not to say that I think our coaches aren't looking at these guys as starters. Just that I don't.