What's 100% a scam, yet still accepted by society?

[mistertim]

IMO there are basically 3 types of people involved in "hustle culture"

 

1) Business owners or managers who exploit it in order to shame their employees into working insanely long hours for no extra pay.

 

2) People who see others talk about hustle culture on social media and assume that's the only way and then play along because they don't know any better.

 

3) Workaholics who have psychological issues that make working incredibly long hours more of a compulsion along the lines of addiction than anything else. Only now their compulsion has somehow come into fashion on social media so instead of looking like people who need therapy, they're looked upon as borderline deities.

[PleaseBlitz]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

IMO there are basically 3 types of people involved in "hustle culture"

 

1) Business owners or managers who exploit it in order to shame their employees into working insanely long hours for no extra pay.

 

2) People who see others talk about hustle culture on social media and assume that's the only way and then play along because they don't know any better.

 

3) Workaholics who have psychological issues that make working incredibly long hours more of a compulsion along the lines of addiction than anything else. Only now their compulsion has somehow come into fashion on social media so instead of looking like people who need therapy, they're looked upon as borderline deities.

I may not be very familiar with hustle culture, but what about people who work a ton because it pays well?

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I may not be very familiar with hustle culture, but what about people who work a ton because it pays well?

 

I guess it depends on what kind of job it is. If someone is working long hours because they're at an hourly job and need to pay the bills, then that sucks but I get it.

 

But hustle culture is a different beast. It's basically an entire social media ecosystem that encourages and shames people into pushing themselves to work 80+ hour work weeks for no real reason other than to get that social media stamp of approval and to make themselves feel like they're fast tracking their career, when in reality most of their 12 hour days is probably spent "being busy" vs actually doing real work and they could get the same amount done in 4 hours of focused work per day. It's also been shown to be incredibly bad for peoples' mental and physical health.

[PleaseBlitz]

Very few people legitimately work 80 hours per week. They might claim to on social media. Ive had to do it for a few weeks at a time on occasion. As you noted, it’s very destructive mentally and physically and it’s nothing something a person would do to themselves long term for likes, or even for money unless it’s an outrageous amount. So i guess i think the scam is that people say they do actually live that life (and have time to tweet about it). 

Edited January 16, 2023 by PleaseBlitz

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Very few people legitimately work 80 hours per week. They might claim to on social media. Ive had to do it for a few weeks at a time on occasion. As you noted, it’s very destructive mentally and physically and it’s nothing something a person would do to themselves long term for likes, or even for money unless it’s an outrageous amount. So i guess i think the scam is that people say they do actually live that life (and have time to tweet about it). 

 

Yeah, definitely. And as I alluded to, one of the problems is that people confuse "being busy" with "work". Being busy is basically trying to multitask (and failing horribly, because the human brain can't multitask) which ends up with very little focused work being done. Our brains can only do so much focused work in a day (generally up to 3-4 hours) before diminishing returns set in and you get less done and the work is of worse quality.

 

It's something the elite performers in their craft have known for a long time. I remember an interview where Itzhak Perlman was asked how much a violinist should practice per day. Everyone was expecting him to say 12 hours or something. He said usually no more than 4...maybe 5 at the absolute maximim, but that's only for the super serious professional. 

 

Hustle culture isn't about working, it's about being busy...and making sure everyone on social media knows just how busy you are and that you're flexing your "hustle muscle" (yes, that's something those idiots say).

Edited January 16, 2023 by mistertim

[TheGreatBuzz]

19 hours ago, Destino said:

It’s funny reading this today.  My wife told me that she planned a brunch for Sunday (today) so that neither her nor my daughter would be in the way while I fixed the tile in the bathroom.  She thinks she slick.

 

19 hours ago, Llevron said:

Gotta give it to her, that is a slick ass move. I don’t presume to know how long y’all been married but that has the feel of a veteran all over it lol. 
 

My wife just catches me chillin and starts talking until she runs out of tasks. I try to ignore her, or slip into a coma, but it just doesn’t stop. 

 

Buzzette complains all the time wishing I would do less.  She has actually said the phrase "I wish you would just get stoned and play video games more" to me.  

 

I hit the jackpot.

 

Edit:  Also, we are laying on the sofa today because we both got ****faced last night.  Just saw a commercial for That 90's Show and talked about how appropriate it is for us since Red was a Navy Chief.  Anyways,  Buzzette remarked about how excited she is to get stoned and watch that.

Edited January 16, 2023 by TheGreatBuzz

[stoshuaj]

College degree being an indicator of intelligence/being pushed on students as a requirement for success.

[Captain Wiggles]

The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution. It doesn't actually abolish slavery at all. It abolished you or I from owning slaves as personal property. Tho it still allows the state to make any person a slave who's a convicted criminal. Two thirds of the US prison population are forced to work for literally pennies. Slavery is certainly alive and well in America in 2023. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Captain Wiggles

[DCSaints_fan]

30 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution. It doesn't actually abolish slavery at all. It abolished you or I from owning slaves as personal property. Tho it still allows the state to make any person a slave who's a convicted criminal. Two thirds of the US prison population are forced to work for literally pennies. Slavery is certainly alive and well in America in 2023. 

 

Quote

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction

Not the fault of the amendment that people don't read it.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by DCSaints_fan

[tomwvr]

22 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Very few people legitimately work 80 hours per week. They might claim to on social media. Ive had to do it for a few weeks at a time on occasion. As you noted, it’s very destructive mentally and physically and it’s nothing something a person would do to themselves long term for likes, or even for money unless it’s an outrageous amount. So i guess i think the scam is that people say they do actually live that life (and have time to tweet about it). 

When i was a manager for giant food we were scheduled to work 50 hours a week, however if you didnt work 6 11-12 hour days you did not keep the job long. In one managers meeting the former president told all the store managers if you dont like what we are telling you to do get up and leave 

[CobraCommander]

22 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Very few people legitimately work 80 hours per week. They might claim to on social media. Ive had to do it for a few weeks at a time on occasion. As you noted, it’s very destructive mentally and physically and it’s nothing something a person would do to themselves long term for likes, or even for money unless it’s an outrageous amount. So i guess i think the scam is that people say they do actually live that life (and have time to tweet about it). 

Let me tell you about the scam most catering and restaurant groups work.  I work with people that regularly work 80 hour work weeks, for the same outfit, and receive 0 overtime.

 

Most catering companies and restaurant groups run as separate llc’s or what have you. For instance a catering company will have a company for food that gets cooked onsite vs the food that gets served offsite at an event. So the same cooks that come in to prep the food at 4am, then clock out at 2pm, drive to an event and clock in at 3pm for a seperate paycheck. This is common practice. 
 

A lot of restaurant groups get away with the same thing by offering hours at different restaurants, again, no overtime pay. 

[The Sisko]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:58 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

Same argument can be made for alcohol. 

 

Government isn't going to ban tobacco, but wont get in the middle of all the stuff that's been added to them to raise the cancer rates from using them because they've also been done to make them more addictive and government loves that tax money.

 

For me, that's the scam, former smoker here, that is not afraid to go hit a hooka but terrified of vape pens because I feel like they are designed to get me back on cigarettes.  Another thing government turned a blind eye to until it started undoing all the work they put in to get kids to stop smoking cigarettes.

At best, the research on additives is contradictory. However, this study does a really comprehensive job of explaining what the various additives are, why they're added, the controversies, and multiple studies addressing them. It concluded that additives don't matter much in the grand scheme of things considering the risk from overall particulate matter, nicotine, etc. As for hookah, people don't use it nearly as much as they'd smoke cigarettes. Fortunately for them, a typical hookah session is about the equivalent of smoking 100 cigarettes, so they're making up for the lower volume to some degree and probably doing almost as much to help kill themselves as regular smoking.🙄 As for vapes, I don't think a blind eye was turned to it for some nefarious reason. Instead, at least for a time, it was seen as a somewhat acceptable harm reduction measure.

 

Full disclosure, my father died of esophageal cancer and my mother from lung cancer - both heavy smokers. I've also lost a couple of other family members to it who weren't but lived with spouses who were smokers so almost certainly secondhand smoke did them in.

 

I've literally watched people die for years from lung cancer and COPD. FWIW, lung cancer isn't the worst. First, you increase your chances of getting it by smoking but it's not a certainty you will. If you do, the chances are pretty good you'll be gone, comparatively speaking, pretty quickly. Conversely, if you live long enough and smoke enough, you will absolutely get COPD. Once you get it, you're lucky if heart disease or some other comorbidity takes you out because at the end, you literally suffocate. It's one of the worst ways I've seen people go out in my almost twenty years as an RT.

 

On 1/15/2023 at 3:09 PM, CRobi21 said:

That hip hop country music is a respectable musical artform...

 

FTFY. 😃 FWIW, today's hip hop is mostly garbage. I'll give you that.

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

43 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

When i was a manager for giant food we were scheduled to work 50 hours a week, however if you didnt work 6 11-12 hour days you did not keep the job long. In one managers meeting the former president told all the store managers if you dont like what we are telling you to do get up and leave 

6 11-12 hour days is not 80 hours a week. 

[Renegade7]

@The Sisko

 

You trippin if you think not regulating something as addictive nicotine products targeted to kids was fine from its harm reduction goals.

 

And how come cancer deaths from tobacco weren't all over the place for Native Americans before the Colonist started selling it back to England?

Edited January 17, 2023 by Renegade7

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

6 11-12 hour days is not 80 hours a week. 

My point was there are many jobs that demand alot of hours and pay for 40. I was paid as if i worked 40 but had to schedule 50 and worked 66-72 every week. After 12 years of stupidly doing it i left for a job that paid better and i work 45 hours a week

[The Sisko]

14 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

@The Sisko

 

You trippin if you think not regulating something as addictive nicotine products targeted to kids was fine from its harm reduction goals.

 

And how come cancer deaths from tobacco weren't all over the place for Native Americans before the Colonist started selling it back to England?

Speaking of trippin', you most certainly are if you don't understand how the system works. This happened for the same reason the FDA turned a blind eye to opioids and the FAA let Boeing's 737s fly. This may come as a surprise to you but industries and individuals with tons of money get what they want, and the rest of us get schtupped. ...and yes, I did include the header of this section of the article intentionally. However, that's not to say that it seems to describe anyone we know...in this thread...in this response.😃

 

Quote

https://www.statnews.com/2019/11/21/e-cigarettes-fda-hands-tied/

Lesson 4: When crisis strikes, the press and public draw the wrong lessons

...During the previous decade, the FDA had tried to protect the public, and especially youths, from the potential harms of e-cigarettes. Yet the agency had been stopped by the courts, impeded by the White House, and repeatedly warned to back off by members of Congress. The fundamental problem was not that the FDA had been sitting on its hands. The problem was that its hands were tied.

 

As for your second question, they weren't smoking the same thing and used it differently and more sparingly than today. Aside from that, and this is speculation on my part, their life expectancy may have been low enough that most of them weren't around long enough for cancer and COPD to show up as much. Additionally, I doubt anyone was doing much disease surveillance during the vast majority of the time they were using tobacco.

 

Quote

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-fight-to-keep-tobacco-sacred/

 

There are other key differences between industrialized tobacco and the substances used for ritual purposes. The term “traditional tobacco” can refer to other indigenous plants that may not contain nicotine at all, including the dried leaves of bearberries and the bark from red and spotted willows. American tribes also use traditional tobacco in a variety of ways. Often it is not smoked, and when it is, it is usually not inhaled into the lungs. Some tribes place it on the ground or burn it in dish or shell; the smoke is believed to carry prayers to the creator. Dried tobacco may be sprinkled on or near a car to ensure a safe journey. Presenting a gift of tobacco when a deal or contract is being forged can make the agreement more binding. Tobacco is also employed medicinally: Sprinkling it on the bed of an ill family member is thought to protect the patient and serve as a healing agent, as Minnesota-based Chippewa tribal members noted in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. Practices differ from tribe to tribe, and citizens of the White Earth Nation and the Ho-Chunk tribe in Wisconsin were reluctant to reveal details of their religious rites to a visiting outside journalist. But David Greendeer, a former Ho-Chunk legislator, told me that the complex process of growing actual tobacco itself—talking to the plant and imbuing it with the grower’s thoughts and energy—can be a key part of sacred tradition. The work can be difficult, and produces a relatively small yield: Once the leaves from Greendeer’s personal plot of 150 plants in Wisconsin are harvested and dried, there are only about four medium-sized coffee cans of traditional tobacco to last him and his family throughout the year. So if tobacco is grown and used in the traditional way, Greendeer reasons, it would be challenging to feed an addiction. “We can only grow so much,” he says. “It’s a ****load of work to get that done.”...

 

...White Earth Nation members say their smoking issues metastasized against a complicated historical backdrop. Until the passage of the Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978, laws banned many Native American cultural practices, including various traditional uses of tobacco. And in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, churches or the U.S. government routinely took Native American kids from their homes and sent them to faraway boarding schools where tribal cultural and language practices were forbidden. This also contributed to the breakdown in teaching traditional customs, Goodwin says. But some tribes managed to hold onto their historic practices in hidden or secret ways, such as substituting cigarettes for indigenous tobacco at traditional ceremonies. For example, at funerals among the Ojibwe (a larger tribal distinction that includes the White Earth Nation), ritually grown tobacco would be placed on the ground to offer prayers to the spirit world for the deceased. To continue this custom when traditional tobacco use was prohibited, the tribe instead started passing a birch-bark basket of cigarettes among attendees to smoke as a group, so the prayer tradition survived. Similarly, since tribal members could no longer keep traditional tobacco with them, they started carrying commercial tobacco and using it for daily offerings and ceremonies.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by The Sisko

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, The Sisko said:

Speaking of trippin', you most certainly are if you don't understand how the system works. This happened for the same reason the FDA turned a blind eye to opioids and the FAA let Boeing's 737s fly. This may come as a surprise to you but industries and individuals with tons of money get what they want, and the rest of us get schtupped.

 

It's not a suprise, you insinuating overlooking "harm reduction" targeted to a demographic that was experiencing a free fall in tobacco use as no big deal does suprise me.

 

1 minute ago, The Sisko said:

As for your second question, they weren't smoking the same thing and used it differently and more sparingly than today. Aside from that, and this is speculation on my part, their life expectancy may have been low enough that most of them weren't around long enough for cancer and COPD to show up as much. Additionally, I doubt anyone was doing much disease surveillance during the vast majority of the time they were using tobacco.

 

This is the point, even the type of tobacco typically used in hookas today's are very different then what would be found in say Marlboro Reds.  Insinuating that smoking a hooka is like smoking 100 Cowboy killers at the same time isnt doing the conversation justice.

 

I'm sorry with what happened to your family, btw, but I still disagree with a lot of your takes here.

[Renegade7]

On 1/15/2023 at 7:51 PM, PleaseBlitz said:

Very few people legitimately work 80 hours per week. They might claim to on social media. Ive had to do it for a few weeks at a time on occasion. As you noted, it’s very destructive mentally and physically and it’s nothing something a person would do to themselves long term for likes, or even for money unless it’s an outrageous amount. So i guess i think the scam is that people say they do actually live that life (and have time to tweet about it). 

 

One summer I had two full time jobs, one that let me go over 40 hours by not paying me overtime (pretty sure that was illegal, but I tool the deal because I needed the money)...so I was averaging 80-100 hours a week.

 

Started in June, didn't have a single day off until say August when I finally jus didn't wake up one morning.  Called in to apologize and manager was suprised I made it that far, said don't sweat it, then I called out the second job for that day to jus mentally reboot.

 

You arw absolutely right 80-100 is completely unsustainable, especially if we're talking about interfering with hours we should normally be sleeping.

 

Working like that is nothing to brag about at all, anytime I bring it up it's more of a warning then anything else...

[TheGreatBuzz]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:50 AM, TheGreatBuzz said:

Buzzette complains all the time wishing I would do less.  She has actually said the phrase "I wish you would just get stoned and play video games more" to me.  

 

Wrong thread.

Edited January 17, 2023 by TheGreatBuzz

[The Sisko]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is the point, even the type of tobacco typically used in hookas today's are very different then what would be found in say Marlboro Reds.  Insinuating that smoking a hooka is like smoking 100 Cowboy killers at the same time isnt doing the conversation justice.

 

I'm sorry with what happened to your family, btw, but I still disagree with a lot of your takes here.

You're not disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with the measurements of nicotine, chemicals, particulate matter, precancerous indicators etc. taken by the numerous researchers cited by the author of the article I posted. In particular, here are the results from the WHO study they cited.

 

If you have some reason to believe their instruments or methods were faulty, that's the only leg you've got to stand on as far as that goes. However, I'm gonna need to see some proof if that's somehow the case. More likely, you just want to believe what you want to, evidence be damned. And that's OK...kind of. Hopefully, you won't roll snake eyes. Just know that just like in Vegas, the odds are always stacked in favor of the house.

 

[China]

2 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

You're not disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with the measurements of nicotine, chemicals, particulate matter, precancerous indicators etc. taken by the numerous researchers cited by the author of the article I posted. In particular, here are the results from the WHO study they cited.

 

If you have some reason to believe their instruments or methods were faulty, that's the only leg you've got to stand on as far as that goes. However, I'm gonna need to see some proof if that's somehow the case. More likely, you just want to believe what you want to, evidence be damned. And that's OK...kind of. Hopefully, you won't roll snake eyes. Just know that just like in Vegas, the odds are always stacked in favor of the house.

 

 

One flaw I see in that is they are trying to equate 1 cigarette to 1 hour on a hooka.  I think the amounts of tobacco needed to smoke a hooka for an hour are going to be significantly higher than the amount in 1 cigarette.

 

Not sure why they didn't do it by weight of tobacco.

[The Sisko]

10 minutes ago, China said:

 

One flaw I see in that is they are trying to equate 1 cigarette to 1 hour on a hooka.  I think the amounts of tobacco needed to smoke a hooka for an hour are going to be significantly higher than the amount in 1 cigarette.

That's certainly fair, but they do state this as a range, not a specific number because there are so many variables in terms of individual use that can't really be accounted for. One of the bigger ones is the charcoal used. Who knows what you're getting with that from one place to the next. However, I think it's safe to say that the idea many have that hookah=harmless or close to it, is a fallacy. For me personally, the only smoke I'm putting into my lungs had better damn well get me high or it just isn't worth it. FWIW, weed is definitely 100% NOT a scam.😉

Edited January 17, 2023 by The Sisko

[CobraCommander]

Trident Bubblegum.

[Renegade7]

31 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

That's certainly fair, but they do state this as a range, not a specific number because there are so many variables in terms of individual use that can't really be accounted for. One of the bigger ones is the charcoal used. Who knows what you're getting with that from one place to the next. However, I think it's safe to say that the idea many have that hookah=harmless or close to it, is a fallacy. For me personally, the only smoke I'm putting into my lungs had better damn well get me high or it just isn't worth it. FWIW, weed is definitely 100% NOT a scam.😉

 

For clarification, from what I can tell no one is saying that.  Inhaling smoke in general isn't good for us, doesn't matter what it is and regardless of any benefits that come with it.

 

But I'm also not buying that smoking hookahs is nearly as dangerous as some of the packaged cigarettes, like Malboro Reds, or that what's happened to today's tobacco products make them similar danger to type of tobacco we first ran into when Virginia was founded.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cancer.org/healthy/cancer-causes/tobacco-and-cancer/carcinogens-found-in-tobacco-products.html

 

We should be pushing for as close to additive free tobacco as we can across the board in this country if we are never, as I predict, going to out right ban it.

 

I don't find it appropriate to ban tobacco outright, I mean they've been smoking tobacco out of hookahs since at least 17th century..

Cigarettes are easy target in the tobacco conversation, but always felt it was more complicated then that.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Renegade7

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Trident Bubblegum.

 

No way. Doublemint is the scam. I chewed it tons of times, but not once did I have a couple of hot twins come up and want to hang out with me.