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Monday Night Game Night Thread: Washington at Philly - Heinicke's Last Stand, Wentz if it Hurts

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PolarExpress

PolarExpress

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Dare I think it could be extremely advantageous for a QB about to get sacked to just Kneel Armstrong it and get the potentially easy personal foul.

 

If QBs do that a few times the league will be in a quandary with their overprotecting of QBs. LBs and DL will have to hurdle to avoid contact and will still probably hit the QB in the helmet.

But, he wasn’t in the process of being sacked, he gave himself up.  Much like sliding feet first.  Can’t pound him then either.

15 hours ago, Xameil said:

He also said that instant replay is bad

He was full of sour grapes last night.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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16 hours ago, Peregrine said:

So at what point does winning of the 4 of 5 last games go from "hope it works" to "doing"?

 

You are so miserable anytime the team wins with the guys you dont prefer.

I’m not miserable.  I’m very happy for the win and happy for TH.  
 

I don’t think this style of football in 2022 is going to get you that far but we’ll see.  Hopefully I’m wrong snd they can go on a run.  

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

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1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't understand why Taylor does not run more, either on designed run plays or on broken plays. Other teams with this type of QB get yards and first downs by having their QB run, this is his biggest asset yet they have him stand in the pocket like Peyton Manning.  

Ditto. Hopefully they start moving him around more so he can use his legs cause that adds another dimension to our offense that defenses have to prepare for. 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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7 hours ago, PolarExpress said:

But, he wasn’t in the process of being sacked, he gave himself up.  Much like sliding feet first.  Can’t pound him then either.

He was full of sour grapes last night.

Why can't a QB about to be sacked, give himself up? Is there any amount of time or space that governs when he can do that and is immune from being hit?

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't understand why Taylor does not run more, either on designed run plays or on broken plays. Other teams with this type of QB get yards and first downs by having their QB run, this is his biggest asset yet they have him stand in the pocket like Peyton Manning.  

 

 Defenses watch a lot of tape and see a lot of mobile QBs these days. 

 

He's not the type of freak athlete to get theirs on a regular basis, he does run when it makes sense and he believes he can keep himself from getting ko'd.  

 

He may say he plays every game like it might be his last, but he's been slowly transitioning to understanding that playing like that at this level could actually mean that because of all the freak athletes bigger and faster then him on defense trying to kill him every play. 

 

All the sudden his team needs him more then he needs to prove he belongs at this level, it's not playing scared its playing smart, something players like Griffin never figured out.

 

As for rollout, man, we do it so rarely I have to jog my memory to how they went. I've seen them go bad, and anyone can correct me on this, but he doesn't seem comfortable throwing on the run consistently, he already has accuracy issues with his feet planted. 

Edited by Renegade7
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PolarExpress

PolarExpress

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1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Why can't a QB about to be sacked, give himself up? Is there any amount of time or space that governs when he can do that and is immune from being hit?

It was obvious Heinicke had taken a knee before 55 hit him.  There is a great screenshot of it on here somewhere.

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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

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1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 Defenses watch a lot of tape and see a lot of mobile QBs these days. 

 

He's not the type of freak athlete to get theirs on a regular basis, he does run when it makes sense and he believes he can keep himself from getting ko'd.  

 

He may say he plays every game like it might be his last, but he's been slowly transitioning to understanding that playing like that at this level could actually mean that because of all the freak athletes bigger and faster then him on defense trying to kill him every play. 

 

All the sudden his team needs him more then he needs to prove he belongs at this level, it's not playing scared its playing smart, something players like Griffin never figured out.

 

As for rollout, man, we do it so rarely I have to jog my memory to how they went. I've seen them go bad, and anyone can correct me on this, but he doesn't seem comfortable throwing on the run consistently, he already has accuracy issues with his feet planted. 

 

To add to this, I think Heinicke rightly believes that it's generally a better use of his legs to elude the pass rush so he can have more time to look downfield than to take off running. 

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

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12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Ditto. Hopefully they start moving him around more so he can use his legs cause that adds another dimension to our offense that defenses have to prepare for. 

Designed runs: fine.

 

When they move the pocket, it draws the defense with him and he doesn’t have the arm to fit the ball into tight windows. Also if he’s running he can’t plant and throw and doesn’t get enough velocity on the ball. 

 

Which is why Scott doesn’t move the pocket much unless he’s looking for that quick underneath leak throw.

 

He’s best when he can step into the throw and drive it with as much of his body weight as possible.  Which is why Scott tries to get him the opportunity in the pocket to step and drive.  

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ODU AGGIE

ODU AGGIE

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On 11/15/2022 at 12:57 AM, mistertim said:

 

Yes, that's my entire point. It worked well tonight, but it won't always work well. And when it doesn't (and/or our defense doesn't play great or force turnovers), we don't really have a backup plan because we're not going to beat teams through the air.

I really don't get what point you are trying to make. If we are not going to beat teams through the air, what other choice is there other than to go with the running game. Ok, it won't always go well, but it's better to win games running than to lose games passing -- isn't it?

 

 

 

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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

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@mistertim you are reaching here.

 

If teams sell out to stop the run, Heinicke is capable enough to beat them via the intermediate passing game.

 

The offensive attack is not as one-dimensional as you're making it out to be. The stats were so lopsided on Monday night because the running game kept grinding out yards and keeping the offense ahead of the chains.

 

Of all 49 running plays, only one was a TFL and that was only for 1 yard. Plus as Ron said, the YPC average was brought down by 3rd and short's that were converted.

 

If the Eagles had done better against the run, I'm sure we would have passed more. 

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mistertim

mistertim

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I really don't get what point you are trying to make. If we are not going to beat teams through the air, what other choice is there other than to go with the running game. Ok, it won't always go well, but it's better to win games running than to lose games passing -- isn't it?

 

 

Holy crap, you're suddenly back now?  :ols:

 

You disappeared at the end of last season IIRC.

 

The point is that in order to win games with a super run heavy offense that aims to control the clock, you have to have a bunch of stuff go right. The running game has to click (of course), the defense has to play well, and you basically have to have some luck since it's likely to be a close game (unless you're playing a putrid offense).

 

If everything isn't clicking then you're in trouble because you have no backup plan, since your QB can't really put the team on his back and win with his arm.

 

So it's not a very good long term plan. We saw that last season. It worked for a few games, but then when teams were able to stop the run, sit on the short stuff, and force us to beat them through the air, we floundered.

 

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

@mistertim you are reaching here.

 

If teams sell out to stop the run, Heinicke is capable enough to beat them via the intermediate passing game.

 

The offensive attack is not as one-dimensional as you're making it out to be. The stats were so lopsided on Monday night because the running game kept grinding out yards and keeping the offense ahead of the chains.

 

Of all 49 running plays, only one was a TFL and that was only for 1 yard. Plus as Ron said, the YPC average was brought down by 3rd and short's that were converted.

 

If the Eagles had done better against the run, I'm sure we would have passed more. 

 

And as I just said, when teams were able to stop the run in the latter part of last season after we decided to go run heavy, we struggled.

 

The intermediate passing game worked well on Monday because the Eagles were trying to stop the run and knew we were running the ball a ton, which made play action that much more effective. That's why on many of those passes we had guys wide open.

Edited by mistertim
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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

Posted
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6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Holy crap, you're suddenly back now?  :ols:

 

You disappeared at the end of last season IIRC.

 

The point is that in order to win games with a super run heavy offense that aims to control the clock, you have to have a bunch of stuff go right. The running game has to click (of course), the defense has to play well, and you basically have to have some luck since it's likely to be a close game (unless you're playing a putrid offense).

 

If everything isn't clicking then you're in trouble because you have no backup plan, since your QB can't really put the team on his back and win with his arm.

 

So it's not a very good long term plan. We saw that last season. It worked for a few games, but then when teams were able to stop the run, sit on the short stuff, and force us to beat them through the air, we floundered.

 

 

And as I just said, when teams were able to stop the run in the latter part of last season after we decided to go run heavy, we struggled.

 

The intermediate passing game worked well on Monday because the Eagles were trying to stop the run and knew we were running the ball a ton, which made play action that much more effective. That's why on many of those passes we had guys wide open.

 

That's the whole point. If teams sell out to stop the run, Heinicke is more than capable of hitting the intermediate routes.

 

And you can't compare to last year when we didn't have B Rob. Between him and a healthy Curtis, the offensive side is better this year. And the defensive side is better, too. This is a more complete team than last year and it allows them to play this way.

 

Personally, I love it. I'm too young to have watched the Gibbs teams (I was born just a few months after the last Super Bowl win), but I really, really enjoyed watching the smash-mouth football we played on Monday. Grinding out runs to stay ahead of the chains, converting 3rd and shorts, chewing up clock, dominating TOP and letting a fresh defense get after the opposing quarterback. Hell yeah.

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mistertim

mistertim

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Posted
7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

That's the whole point. If teams sell out to stop the run, Heinicke is more than capable of hitting the intermediate routes.

 

And you can't compare to last year when we didn't have B Rob. Between him and a healthy Curtis, the offensive side is better this year. And the defensive side is better, too. This is a more complete team than last year and it allows them to play this way.

 

Personally, I love it. I'm too young to have watched the Gibbs teams (I was born just a few months after the last Super Bowl win), but I really, really enjoyed watching the smash-mouth football we played on Monday. Grinding out runs to stay ahead of the chains, converting 3rd and shorts, chewing up clock, dominating TOP and letting a fresh defense get after the opposing quarterback. Hell yeah.

 

If that works so well, even with better QBs than Heinicke, then why aren't more teams doing it?

 

Is it because we've found some magical formula, or is it because the rest of the league knows that it doesn't work as a long term plan in the modern NFL?

 

I know everyone is riding high on this one win where we ran almost 50 times, but the idea that we're going to be able to do that every week is laughable.

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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

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Just now, mistertim said:

 

If that works so well, even with better QBs than Heinicke, then why aren't more teams doing it?

 

Is it because we've found some magical formula, or is it because the rest of the league knows that it doesn't work as a long term plan in the modern NFL?

 

I know everyone is riding high on this one win where we ran almost 50 times, but the idea that we're going to be able to do that every week is laughable.

 

Tennessee DOES do it.

 

You need to have the horses. 

 

We have one of, if not the, best D-Lines in the league with Jon Allen and Daron Payne. Gibson and B Rob are one of the best RB tandems out there right now.

 

And btw, it's not some "magical formula" literally every coach out there talks about establishing the run and committing to it.

@mistertim literally as soon as I finished my last post I refreshed Twitter and saw this Dan Orlovsky segment titled "Return of the running game". Guess the "magic formula" is out lol

 

 

 

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