Election 2024 & Presidential Cage Match: Dark Brandon 46 vs Felonious Farty 45

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, PeterMP said:

 

Yes.  But you ignored the part about the people leaving/being integrated back into US society.  It didn't stay that many people for that long.

 

If a large number of the harder core MAGA people are going to leave the US and move to Canada or Britain in the next few years, then yeah things will be okay.  But that doesn't seem likely at this point in time.

 

So your comparison is irrelevant.

 

I guess that's one way to rationalize your way out of your original dumb comment.  Point is, 1/3 of the population held a particular view.  They were entirely marginalized while holding those views.  The country got way better as a direct result of their marginalization and has endured for going on 250 years.  

 

 

[PeterMP]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

personally, it makes tons of sense that ignoring them is not a good idea, and I think it’s pretty obvious lecturing them doesn’t work even if done nicely. But I have no ****ing idea what to do about it. 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying to ignore them.  But not ignoring them doesn't have to include multiple people in a short time frame being inslulting.

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying to ignore them.  But not ignoring them doesn't have to include multiple people in a short time frame being inslulting.

Yeah I wasn’t trying to say otherwise. 
 

you’ve made at least one lengthy post on this issue (years ago) and i thoroughly agree with you. 
 

i, personally, have no idea what to do about it because your suggestion was to leverage the existing relationship and go about it in a specific, non judgemental/lecturing way. You provided examples.  You specifically said it’s not productive to shout them down, gang up on them, belittle them, etc. 

 

my only counter point to that is that while it makes total sense in a specific situation (say, dealing with a relative or close friend), it’s not really actionable on a national level. And even if it was our only option (and maybe it is) - it’s so time consuming it’s hard to imagine it would “work”

Edited August 24, 2023 by tshile

[Larry]

41 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

I literally asked him the simplest of questions. Name some of these "good Republicans " he himself brought up. Yet here we are. 🤣

Well, and tshile has a valid point, too. Your "simplest of questions" was literally claiming that not one good Republican exists, anywhere in the world. 
 

Come on. This is the Internet. I'm certain that somewhere there's a left handed transsexual redhead former Navy SEAL. 

 

Which is why I took a different approach. 
 

You see, my question, despite tshile's attempts to claim otherwise, explicitly assumes that people can vote Republican, and not approve of every single thing they do. 
 

But, when that "good person" pulls that lever, he has to know by now what he's going to get. 
 

If you've voted Republican in the last 30 years, then you knew damned well that you were going to get:

 

1) A massive tax cut on the rich, and corporations. 
 

2) And four years later fake shock about where this huge debt came from. 
 

3) And a hostage situation, in which the Republicans unanimously threaten to intentionally harm the country, unless somebody else solves the problem, by cutting Social Security or Medicare. (But we're not telling them which. We're just saying that everything else is off the table.)

 

Maybe you don't like this part of the Republican platform. But you're OK with it. 
 

And the same thing with all the rest of the evil. Maybe you can say "oh, I don't approve of that". But you're willing to vote for it. 
 

So that's my question. What's the upside, that a good person would say "I'll vote for that"?  
 

And tshile might have hit on one. The "single issue voter". 
 

Granted, I think a lot of single issue voters are evil, too. 
 

But yeah, I can at least imagine that out there, there are a lot of people who are so fixated on abortion, that they're OK with the government telling nine year old rape victims that they have to carry their rapist's child. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Larry

[Califan007 The Constipated]

7 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Even with this latest indictment the polls show a dead heat with Biden.  Since the trials probably won't start until after the election I see no reason for that to change.  Put that with the fact that Trump gets more votes than the polls indicate I just don't understand how so many of you are convinced he won't win in 2024. 

 

Polls don't mean votes. The Nov. 2nd polls for the 2020 election, three of them had Trump ahead of Biden, two showed Biden ahead of Trump, and one showed them dead even. How did that end up translating into actual votes? And there's still a year and a half before the next election, so just a ****-ton of changes can occur almost weekly over that timespan.

 

There's no reason for anyone to assume anything at this point, other than it's damn hard to keep whatever momentum someone has for 18 months straight, especially when you're dealing with constant bad news, constant indictments, hundreds of felony counts, and trials--there will be at least 2 Trump trials before the election, not sure why you think otherwise.

[Fergasun]

GOP started down the crazy road during the Obama years, but this is what I would say a rationale GOP platform is (in no order)

 

Re: Deplorables

Let's kick the deplorables out. Let's not dog-whistle racism.  Let's not demonize "big cities" as if "our small midwestern" (white) cities are so much better than the ungovernable "big cities".  Let's not ignore the generational effects of racism.  Let's not pretend like systematic racism didn't and doesn't exist.  Let's stop saying things like "everyone goes with their tribe."  Let's not treat woman as 2nd class citizens. 

 

Re:  Federal Budget

Let's balance the budget in 15 years. 10 years is too drastic.  This includes entitlments but most of those are Medicare.  We need to be honest about how much the medical industry sucks from the Federal budget.  

 

Re:  Weaponization of Federal...

Did we have issues with Watergate? or Comey comments that probably cost Hillary the election?  Comon... let's stop acting like the DoJ and FBI are crooked.  Trump is crooked.  He's always been crooked.  The fact that this is a plank means we are the Trump party. 

 

Re: Russia and Department of Defense

Sure, we are going to have to balance priorities.  But we can't capitulate to Putin, China and anyone else who is a global threat. Since when did we abandon our global partners and allies?  If Russia is tired of the war, they can withdraw. 

 

The above would probably get you booed off stage yesterday.

[skinsmarydu]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

But yeah, I can at least imagine that out there, there are a lot of people who are so fixated on abortion, that they're OK with the government telling nine year old rape victims that they have to carry their rapist's child. 

And I can't abide by that.  Ever. 

[The Evil Genius]

5 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

GOP started down the crazy road during the Obama years, but this is what I would say a rationale GOP platform is (in no order)

 

Re: Deplorables

Let's kick the deplorables out. Let's not dog-whistle racism.  Let's not demonize "big cities" as if "our small midwestern" (white) cities are so much better than the ungovernable "big cities".  Let's not ignore the generational effects of racism.  Let's not pretend like systematic racism didn't and doesn't exist.  Let's stop saying things like "everyone goes with their tribe."  Let's not treat woman as 2nd class citizens. 

 

Re:  Federal Budget

Let's balance the budget in 15 years. 10 years is too drastic.  This includes entitlments but most of those are Medicare.  We need to be honest about how much the medical industry sucks from the Federal budget.  

 

Re:  Weaponization of Federal...

Did we have issues with Watergate? or Comey comments that probably cost Hillary the election?  Comon... let's stop acting like the DoJ and FBI are crooked.  Trump is crooked.  He's always been crooked.  The fact that this is a plank means we are the Trump party. 

 

Re: Russia and Department of Defense

Sure, we are going to have to balance priorities.  But we can't capitulate to Putin, China and anyone else who is a global threat. Since when did we abandon our global partners and allies?  If Russia is tired of the war, they can withdraw. 

 

The above would probably get you booed off stage yesterday.

 

There is a running theory on Twitter that the Obama Presidency broke the GOP base. The idea that a happy black couple with kids could govern the US without the drama of scandals literally burned out the last straw of the GOP base. It's why they went full MAGA and started accepting every wingnut conspiracy theory (pizzagate, covid shots being bad, Michelle Obama being a man, etc).

Edited August 24, 2023 by The Evil Genius

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Larry said:

So that's my question. What's the upside, that a good person would say "I'll vote for that"?  
 

And tshile might have hit on one. The "single issue voter". 
 

Granted, I think a lot of single issue voters are evil, too.

Im not a fan of single issue voters either. At all. I think it’s ridiculously stupid. But - tis their right and I’m not going to call them evil for it. 
 

but I also pointed out that people may just not care about certain issues. There are issues I don’t care about and a candidate having a certain stance on it isn’t going to change my vote (in and of itself.) 

 

I also pointed out we have evidence republicans won at the local level, but trump didn’t. And how we watched trumper-candidates, candidates he went to rallies for an propped up on social media (or attacked their opponent), and I imagine also his pac’s pushed money to, lost - while other republicans that stayed away won. 
 

I’ll also point out - the Lincoln project is supposedly a bunch of republicans that take issue with the current state of the party and are spending their political capital and money fighting it. 
 

but these people apparently don’t exist 🙄

 

but I’d also like to point out that I qualified this by pointing out that there is a difference between having a fundamentally different view on tbe role of government, and being a racist/fascist/stupid person. 
 

you point out tax cuts. There are people that believe the government shouldn’t be involved in, or providing, various things and by extension shouldn’t be taxing citizens for it. That, in and of itself, does not make you stupid, or evil, or a fascist. 
 

they could be any of those things, but it’s not inherently true just because you don’t believe the government should be doing those things in the first place. 
 

in the general sense I do not understand why it is so hard for people to tolerate a differing opinion without declaring that person must be stupid/racist/fascist/evil/whatever. 
 

it’s absolutely ok to have a different view on how the government should function. 
 

how you go about it sort of determines what you’re about. 
 

for instance:

it’s absolutely fair to be upset trump didn’t win in 2020. 
 

but it’s not fair to think that means it’s ok to overturn the election results. Or to stop the capital to stop the certification. Or that any of those things, and the other related things, are OK because hey we’re just supporting our “team”

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

There is a running theory on Twitter that the Obama Presidency broke the GOP base. The idea that a happy black couple with kids could govern the US without the drama of scandals literally burned out the last straw of the GOP base. It's why they went full MAGA and started accepting every wingnut conspiracy theory (pizzagate, covid shots being bad, Michelle Obama being a man, etc).

 

I think there's a simpler explanation.  

 

The GOP has spent 40 years creating a propaganda machine.  And training their audience in using it.  

 

When all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.  

 

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

There is a running theory on Twitter that the Obama Presidency broke the GOP base

Oh I’ve always subscribed to that. The way they doubled down on how they treated him (and how they ran our government) post the 2008 win, is why starting in 2010 I started voting for democrats. 
 

I’ve said this before but the only way the republicans stand a chance of ever recruiting me back to being a reliable voter, is they do a very public and honest post mortem on wtf happened to them in the lead up to 2008 and since. 
 

which I imagine will never happen. 
 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by tshile

[tshile]

Anyways I gotta clean the house before the babysitter gets here. Wife and I have a dinner party with a sitting Republican senator that’s a pretty good person and really just disagrees with you all on the role of the government. 
 

I’ll make sure I tell her she doesn’t actually exist. 

[Larry]

Just now, tshile said:

Anyways I gotta clean the house before the babysitter gets here. Wife and I have a dinner party with a sitting Republican senator that’s a pretty good person and really just disagrees with you all on the role of the government. 
 

I’ll make sure I tell her she doesn’t actually exist. 

 

Did she vote to convict Donald Trump?  

 

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Did she vote to convict Donald Trump?  

 

Don’t believe she had the option to?

 

I don’t believe I’ll be able to ask if she would have. I think I’m just there to look pretty. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

[China]

22 hours ago, China said:

‘Try To Stop Don Jr. and Me From Going’: Kimberly Guilfoyle Challenges ‘Pathetic’ Fox News Debate Policy

 

Former Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle blasted her former employer on Tuesday over its policy concerning the presence of Donald Trump surrogates in tomorrow’s post-debate spin room.

 

The spin room is where representatives of the participants speak to the media and offer positive assessments of how their respective candidates performed. Given all the ways candidates in 2023 can get their messages out, the spin room is something of an antiquated phenomenon. Nevertheless, the Trump camp is unhappy with Fox’s policy about it.

 

On Monday, some misleading reports circulated saying that Fox would be banning Trump surrogates from the spin room entirely.

 

“That’s not the case at all,” said Bret Baier, who will co-moderate the debate. “As far as in the spin room, it is the candidates on the stage and their delegates. And then if any media organization who’s in the spin room invites one of these surrogates, a Trump surrogate, they are welcome to come. They have to get the invite from the media person in the room.”

 

Nevertheless, Guilfoyle, who is engaged to Donald Trump Jr., expressed displeasure at the policy while appearing on Newsmax.

 

Guilfoyle then said she and her fiancé “will be there” and streaming on Rumble.

 

“And I’d just like to see somebody try to stop Don Jr. and me from going someplace,” she concluded.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

It'd be hilarious if Donny Jr., and the Creature from the Black Lagoon tried to crash the spin room and there was a kerfuffle, with Donny Jr. being dragged away in a drug addled rage with white powder on his nose...

 

 

 

Donald Trump Jr. LOSES It On Fox News Outside Debate Spin Room When He Can’t Get In

 

Former First Son Donald Trump Jr. ranted to reporters after he was told he couldn’t go into the post-debate spin room, lashing out at Fox News and comparing them to ex-President Donald Trump’s election crimes prosecutor.

 

On Wednesday night, eight candidates took the stage for a debate moderated by Fox News anchor Bret Baier and fellow Fox News anchor Martha MacCallum on Fox News, while Trump skipped the proceeding to do Carlson’s Twitter/X show.

 

But while Fox News says there were ways for Trump people to access the spin room, Don Jr. was not able to do so. Bloomberg White House and politics reporter Greg Korte caught Junior ranting outside the spin room about Fox News, and posted the video to Twitter/X:

 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Renegade7]

Probably not a good time to mention the amount of death threats many Republicans get for not getting down with the sickness these days. 

 

Very real issue with respect to even ones that want to be reasonable but won't pass the "what did you do about Trump" test many Liberals like administering these days.

 

It's not so simple as just "doing the right thing" when they find your email, phone number, or home address where your kids sleep. Secret Serivce needs to be expanded, imo, to help account for this new reality.

 

This is not talked about enough in regards bare minimum **** we should be doing to counter this cult that looks like it's taken over half the country.  Key word being "looks".

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Renegade7]

Nikki Haley Is the Best Trump Alternative https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/24/opinion/nikki-haley-republican-debate-winner.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

 

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I guess that's one way to rationalize your way out of your original dumb comment.  Point is, 1/3 of the population held a particular view.  They were entirely marginalized while holding those views.  The country got way better as a direct result of their marginalization and has endured for going on 250 years.  

 

 

 

Point is the comparison is irrelevant and not really related unless you see a path for a large number of the MAGA leaders to leave the country.  Many of the people didn't stay part of the country.

Edited August 24, 2023 by PeterMP

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Abortion rights have won every election since their removal

Biden's campaign barely exists right now.

Biden is earning way more money, and barely spending it, while every candidate on the Republican side is emptying the coffers. Massive war chest advantage

Trump has and will continue to have massive legal fees

Trump is dying w/ independents

Dude might be in jail before we even get to the election. Good luck campaigning

 

Its gonna be a beatdown.

 

 

 

I have been searching every way to search polls of Independents but I just can't find them.  Can you help a fellow Trump hating brother out?  Is Biden's fundraising higher than Trump's?  Seems his supporters are sending him their college funds.  

[PleaseBlitz]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Point is the comparison is irrelevant and not really related unless you see a path for a large number of the MAGA leaders to leave the country.

 

I disagree, but whatever. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

 

[Jumbo]

Just now, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I disagree, but whatever. 

 

I whatever, but disagree.

 

Fight me!

[Darrell Green Fan]

46 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Polls don't mean votes. The Nov. 2nd polls for the 2020 election, three of them had Trump ahead of Biden, two showed Biden ahead of Trump, and one showed them dead even. How did that end up translating into actual votes? And there's still a year and a half before the next election, so just a ****-ton of changes can occur almost weekly over that timespan.

 

There's no reason for anyone to assume anything at this point, other than it's damn hard to keep whatever momentum someone has for 18 months straight, especially when you're dealing with constant bad news, constant indictments, hundreds of felony counts, and trials--there will be at least 2 Trump trials before the election, not sure why you think otherwise.

 

Because I have heard countless attorneys and other legal experts who are all pretty much saying Trump will be able to stall these trials until after the election.