New OC Thread (Welcome Aboard Eric Bieniemy!)

[Conn]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

Trent can't be blamed on him

Scherff (who was overrated) really, either. Unless they stiffed him on guaranteed money, he rejected top-of-the-market OG money to get out of here. And who can blame him given all the drama during his time here. 
 

There is an argument to be made that Rivera could have repaired things with Trent by immediately making him feel wanted and re-signing him to top market money—by insisting that he prove himself first, Rivera was inadvertently the final straw. He can’t really be blamed for that though, given he had just taken over the team and didn’t know him yet. That situation was ruined by Snyder/Allen first and foremost. I think where Rivera actually screwed up was in not trading him immediately for a haul. The asset mismanagement was the foul there, not just the actual losing of Trent—which may have been inevitable. 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

Scherff (who was overrated) really, either. Unless they stiffed him on guaranteed money, he rejected top-of-the-market OG money to get out of here. And who can blame him given all the drama during his time here. 
 

There is an argument to be made that Rivera could have repaired things with Trent by immediately making him feel wanted and re-signing him to top market money—by insisting that he prove himself first, Rivera was inadvertently the final straw. He can’t really be blamed for that though, given he had just taken over the team and didn’t know him yet. That situation was ruined by Snyder/Allen first and foremost. I think where Rivera actually screwed up was in not trading him immediately for a haul. The asset mismanagement was the foul there, not just the actual losing of Trent—which may have been inevitable. 

 

Sure he can be blamed for those mistakes.  Rivera had absolute control over the roster and those guys leaving were decisions he made.  He made the Trent trade and he made the decision to pass on working out an extension with Scherff in 2020.  In the Spring of 2020, Kyle Smith was still here.  If Rivera wanted to know what kind of dude Scherff or Trent were, he could have asked him.  Plenty of new regimes walk into situations where there is good extant talent in house without losing a bunch of their best players.  Rivera does not get a pass for mishandling assets during his tenure, he's been the most powerful coach in the NFL since he was hired here.

 

Also Scherff turning down their contract offer that came two years too late doesn't excuse them for mishandling him.  Rivera's dumb mandate that no one on the roster from the 2019 season would get new deals in offseason one was a bad mistake that cost him both Trent and Scherff.  That was the offseason to get a deal done with Scherff and it should have happened, and there really is no good defense for why it didn't.  Anyone in the building could have told Rivera that Scherff was a team leader.  Instead they let him go into a walk year with no extension and he had an All Pro season and then they were stuck playing the franchise tag game with him until he could finally hit the open market.  They had all of the leverage in negotiations with him in the Spring of 2020 and they lost it all by waiting.  They need to avoid making the same mistake with DaRon by getting a deal done this winter, and it's already a year too late with him.

[Rex Tomb]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

Plenty of new regimes walk into situations where there is good extant talent in house without losing a bunch of their best players.

I want Rivera (and the coaching staff as a whole) to go as much as anyone, his time is done and he’s a relic of the past.

 

But…

 

Recall that Trent was disgruntled and would absolutely not suit up for the team, even after being medically cleared. You might recall that when he was cleared, his issue was the helmet not fitting properly so he could wear it with bandages or whatever.  I took that to mean he was definitely not playing and the helmet was a convenient reason to hold out.  It didn’t appear he was willing to try another alternative for his helmet.  With a player in that state of mind, it’s best to move on.  He could very well poison the entire locker room because he was such a highly respected leader.  

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, MrJL said:

Trent can't be blamed on him

Sure he can, to an extent. All he had to do was sit down with him and tell him: "Hey man, you're a leader on this team and an absolute beast of a LT. I know you hate Bruce Allen, but he's gone. I want you here." Something along those lines. Instead he went out of his way to say crap about how Trent had to "prove it to him". What a load of crock. Dude was already a multi time Pro Bowl LT.

 

Ditto the Scherff situation. Should have just come to a long term deal with him after the 2019 season. He also effed up the Morgan Moses situation. There was no reason to cut him. 

 

We could have still had Williams, Scherff, and Moses on our OL. Suddenly it goes from a weakness to a legitimate strength, especially for our newfound focus on the run game. We'd probably have at least two more wins right now if that was our OL setup.

 

Rivera has done a lot of good things, but he ROYALLY screwed up the OL. 

[method man]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Sure he can be blamed for those mistakes.  Rivera had absolute control over the roster and those guys leaving were decisions he made.  He made the Trent trade and he made the decision to pass on working out an extension with Scherff in 2020.  In the Spring of 2020, Kyle Smith was still here.  If Rivera wanted to know what kind of dude Scherff or Trent were, he could have asked him.  Plenty of new regimes walk into situations where there is good extant talent in house without losing a bunch of their best players.  Rivera does not get a pass for mishandling assets during his tenure, he's been the most powerful coach in the NFL since he was hired here.

 

Also Scherff turning down their contract offer that came two years too late doesn't excuse them for mishandling him.  Rivera's dumb mandate that no one on the roster from the 2019 season would get new deals in offseason one was a bad mistake that cost him both Trent and Scherff.  That was the offseason to get a deal done with Scherff and it should have happened, and there really is no good defense for why it didn't.  Anyone in the building could have told Rivera that Scherff was a team leader.  Instead they let him go into a walk year with no extension and he had an All Pro season and then they were stuck playing the franchise tag game with him until he could finally hit the open market.  They had all of the leverage in negotiations with him in the Spring of 2020 and they lost it all by waiting.  They need to avoid making the same mistake with DaRon by getting a deal done this winter, and it's already a year too late with him.

 

I can't believe anyone is sad that we didn't sign Scherff to the $17M AAV contract he got from the Jags. Even at $15M a year, he would have been a bigtime overpay for a guy who missed so many games here. The ironic thing is that, in Jacksonville, he is set to play the most games he has played since 2016 but his PFF grade is 57.3, which is lower than Andrew Norwell's 60.0 PFF grade. Not saying that Norwell has been better than Brandon this year because PFF grades can be faulty but to show that Brandon is not living up to the contract he signed.

 

On Trent, I totally get the tact that Rivera took. Your logic is faulty because how could Rivera trust anyone from the building when he first came here? Looking at the facts, Ron was dealing with a guy that sat the prior season out and was demanding an extension despite not showing what he was capable of in 12+ months. Had Ron acquiesed, that would have set a bad cultural precedent for this team. The Trent situation is entirely Dan's/Bruce's fault.

 

Again, what I do fault Ron for was for cutting Moses. That was just dumb given Moses's cost and because Moses had one of his best years in 2020 and even stepped in at left tackle during the season.

[skinzplay]

After all the amazing offensive fireworks (and great play-calling) on New Year's Eve, what better way to sober up today than watch what Scott Turner puts together. Welcome to a somber sobriety.

[@DCGoldPants]

Since Ron won't listen to us, and lock Scott in the equipment room. He better call the game of his life today. Running the same plays throughout the year is one thing. Doing it from the same formations that every jerk here on this message board knows the call before the snap, is not ok. If this is the same gameplan from like week 2 and week 5 and week 7 or whatever, I hope a sea of Hog Noses finds their way to the box he's calling from and buries him. 

[skinzplay]

Gauge his situational play-calling. It's nonsensical. If we had a real GM, this experiment would've been over already. But RR is Emperor. When he had that week away, it was telling just how damn good the game plan was against Philthy. Kudos to JDR.

 

[@DCGoldPants]

Turner should be relieved of playcalling now. He's gone nothing. 

[Arklj]

Coaching malpractice.  Playing not to lose. Rivera and Turner suck at their jobs

[MrJL]

I hate Turner's play calling so much

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I hate Turner's play calling so much

In all my years as a fan I have NEVER disliked a coach more than Turner. I'm legitimately serious. We've had bad coaches before sure, but none did less than more than this idiot. 

[MrJL]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

In all my years as a fan I have NEVER disliked a coach more than Turner. I'm legitimately serious. We've had bad coaches before sure, but none did less than more than this idiot. 

 

he seems to base his play calling on what would be cool to see in the moment, rather than what's most likely to be effective

[skins4ever28]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

In all my years as a fan I have NEVER disliked a coach more than Turner. I'm legitimately serious. We've had bad coaches before sure, but none did less than more than this idiot. 

Haslett was worse.

but Turner is a close second. Turner shouldn’t be in the nfl. He’s only here cause of his daddy. He’s trash.

[FootballZombie]

Today was uggo, but Turner took a critical step forward as an OC. He learned a dang lesson.

 

Every other game w/ Wentz, aside from the broken finger game, was an attempt to pass the ball as much as possible, even when it was blatant that it would not work. When he was handcuffed and forced to run w/ TH he was gifted a blueprint to some basic success.

 

When the time came to go back to Wentz, he did not revert. He applied what he learned. He adjusted in a way that he refused to earlier in the year.

 

 

As bad as today was, I feel oddly better about Turner.

[ClaytoAli]

34 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

In all my years as a fan I have NEVER disliked a coach more than Turner. I'm legitimately serious. We've had bad coaches before sure, but none did less than more than this idiot. 

Er duh, the swinging gate guy?

 

 

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Today was uggo, but Turner took a critical step forward as an OC. He learned a dang lesson.

 

Every other game w/ Wentz, aside from the broken finger game, was an attempt to pass the ball as much as possible, even when it was blatant that it would not work. When he was handcuffed and forced to run w/ TH he was gifted a blueprint to some basic success.

 

When the time came to go back to Wentz, he did not revert. He applied what he learned. He adjusted in a way that he refused to earlier in the year.

 

 

As bad as today was, I feel oddly better about Turner.

You must be his father.

 

 

8 minutes ago, skins4ever28 said:

Haslett was worse.

but Turner is a close second. Turner shouldn’t be in the nfl. He’s only here cause of his daddy. He’s trash.

D-Cor vs O-Cor

Edited January 1, 2023 by ClaytoAli

[Warhead36]

9 minutes ago, skins4ever28 said:

Haslett was worse.

but Turner is a close second. Turner shouldn’t be in the nfl. He’s only here cause of his daddy. He’s trash.

Haslett was bad, but he had almost no talent to work with. Even then, he turned around our defense in the 2nd half of 2012 to help get us into the playoffs. Turner has never done anything like that in his three years here. One could argue the offense has gotten worse every year and its not like he doesn't have talent.

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

You must be his father.

 

I had no faith in his ability to learn a lesson and I gave him guff about it all year.

He displayed no desire to make a needed change until the choice is totally removed from his hands.

 

This is the first time I have seen him actually do it.

 

Were talking bout a dude who at the start of the year looked like he trusted Wentz w/ his life and was willing to let every game be a blowout just b/c he wanted to run "his" O

Edited January 1, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Captain Wiggles]

For me Mike Shanahan is easily the one I hate most. Staked his HoF reputation on John Beck n Sexy Rexy. 🤣

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, ClaytoAli said:

Er duh, the swinging gate guy?

 

Zorn stunk but I didn't dislike him the same way. He was just laughably bad. But at least he had the first half of the 08 season where the offense looked good.

 

Turner has never had a good stretch of football for his unit. 

[RVAskins]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Zorn stunk but I didn't dislike him the same way. He was just laughably bad. But at least he had the first half of the 08 season where the offense looked good.

 

Turner has never had a good stretch of football for his unit. 

Let's face it, other than Joe Gibbs and his assistants, we've had some very bad coaching and let the good ones get away. Bad, Joe Barry, Good one who got away, Kyle Shanahan.

[Warhead36]

Well the awful Joe Barry defense helped spark a comeback in Miami last week and is currently holding the potent Vikings offense to 3 points. I don't think he's a great coach or anything but I also don't think he's as bad as we think. Like most coaches he's a product of the talent he gets.

 

Except Turner. He somehow makes good talent worse. 

[Conn]

 

Adios

[CobraCommander]

Hallelujah 

[JSSkinz]

Step 1 complete. Glad to see Ron pulled the trigger quickly. I wondered why he was so somber at the presser today when discussing Scott.