The (New) Offensive Line Thread

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So… you believe you’re the only one that had that thought?

***POSITION FLEX?!?!?!?!?***

 

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 I think our training staff graded very highly amonst other teams. It was the one area where that was true. Also, I can see RG/LG/C position flex as being possible and important. But guard/tackle? Ideally we'd have a tall, huge, agile pair of OT's with super long arms. Nobody talks about position flex with elite tackles. Can Trent play guard? Maybe, but, who cares? 

 

Wasn't there a season where Trent got badly injured and played through it by moving inside to guard?  I swear that happened, and I also think I remember that he dominated.

 

Almost every good NFL OL can and probably will move around a line at some point in their careers.  It's how you deal with the quotidian injury challenges of manning the unit through a season.  The only movement you don't commonly see is guys emergency subbing inside to center, because that position is too hard to play with minimal preparation.  That's why it's such a disaster when your center goes down, and it happened to us twice in consecutive years.  The Eagles almost had their season derailed in the game against us when Kelce briefly went down.  Not sure if that guy had missed a snap for them in a decade until he went down against us.  And they lost that game after seeming like a juggernaut the whole season.  It's disruptive to the point of ruining your line and your offense.

 

Our line will vastly improve next season if we can just use fewer combos.  Not even by significantly upgrading the talent.  The hope is that we can accomplish that just by changing the starting C and getting a healthier dude there, not even a better one.  But you can't prevent injuries from happening, so the only thing you can do is build up your depth and hope for the best.

 

It's always nice to have blue chip talent on your line, but you still see teams like the Patriots killing it with fourth rounders and UDFAs just with Scharnecchia magic and few in-season line combos.  Health and depth are the most important factors in line quality.  I don't think our big problem is that we don't have high end starters on our OL.  I think its that we only have five or six players in the rotation that we can play with confidence: Leno, Wylie, Gates, Cosmi, and Lucas.  We're going with unknowns in Stromberg, Paul, Charles, etc. Larsen has had a lot of season ending injuries.  And we have to use a roster spot to essentially redshirt Braeden Daniels.  Your pipeline guys eventually have to make the jump I to the rotation, but it feels like we have a bunch doing it at once, plus playing a rookie center can be rough on everyone.

[Warhead36]

Yep its more important to have five guys who play well together. Well not five, probably more like five + another two or three that can be subbed in. 

 

Philly's OL has some blue chippers for sure  but they also go like eight guys deep.

[Going Commando]

Howell's mobility and toughness should help the line too.  The dude dealt with a lot of pressure as the starter at UNC, and he can command a hat in the option run game.   We've got three big power backs too, so that should soften up fronts and alleys for our linemen.

 

I guess I'm more bullish on the line than most.  Part of that is I'm higher on Cosmi, Wylie, and Paul than most others seem to be.  These dudes can fly.  Wylie had a 1.74 10 yard shuttle, Chris Paul had a 1.71 which is 90th percentile for OLs, and Cosmi had a 1.68.  That is extraordinary first step speed/running ability.  Our centers are slow as Hell, but honestly, if they can just make it through the year healthy, we'll be significantly better off there than we were during our critical stretch run in 2021 and for all of 2022.

 

There is a lot of skepticism about Wylie, but he had 8 AV and started every game of the regular season for KC last season.  That is desperately needed consistency for us, and well above average play.  Between him, Leno, and Cosmi, we have three good starters.  I think Paul is going to be a good one too.  Gates is a big center who should at least be able to anchor power rushing IDLs.  I don't know, but I think this group is better than we think.

[method man]

23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.

 

I'd put money that defenses having to face J. Gibbs won't be laughing at the pick on Sundays.  Ditto offenses having to face Jack Campbell.

 

Some within the draft media are so in love with their assessment of players, it's comical how some of them (not all) are so arrogant that they have it down -- when they've (like everyone else) ultimately made many comical blunders in their takes about players.   It's not an exact science by a long shot. 

 

Kiper, who I like, he's humble too.  But I do think it was amusing that he was so sure that Clausen would be a good Qb years back, that he said he'd quit his job if he is wrong. 

 

We supposedly had an awesome draft when we took Haskins (RIP) because the draft media loved him. 

 

As Keim jokes if you want to have high graded drafts just pick the draft media's fav players and they will love you.  But lol, obviously that isn't the way to go.

 

There was a regular on the draft board years ago that would swear by Mike Mayock and how good his takes are.  Mayock now is a punch line after he had to do this for real with the Raiders. 

 

Not saying these guys are always suspect.  I am entertained by them.  And I enjoy reading their takes.   But I don't take their takes as gosepl.  If it were gospel, why even bother with a scouting staff.  Just work out of ESPN's board, take their BPA each round, and you'd kill it supposedly. 

 

 

Off topic but I feel a little bad for Mayock. Supposedly it was Gruden who was commandeering the draft room and making the Day 1 and Day 2 picks. Mayock then took guys like Crosby, Renfrow and Moreau on Day 3

 

He gets hit with the slander. I don’t feel fully bad for him because he got GM money for a few years

Edited May 7, 2023 by method man

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

Howell's mobility and toughness should help the line too.  The dude dealt with a lot of pressure as the starter at UNC, and he can command a hat in the option run game.   We've got three big power backs too, so that should soften up fronts and alleys for our linemen.

 

I guess I'm more bullish on the line than most.  Part of that is I'm higher on Cosmi, Wylie, and Paul than most others seem to be.  These dudes can fly.  Wylie had a 1.74 10 yard shuttle, Chris Paul had a 1.71 which is 90th percentile for OLs, and Cosmi had a 1.68.  That is extraordinary first step speed/running ability.  Our centers are slow as Hell, but honestly, if they can just make it through the year healthy, we'll be significantly better off there than we were during our critical stretch run in 2021 and for all of 2022.

 

There is a lot of skepticism about Wylie, but he had 8 AV and started every game of the regular season for KC last season.  That is desperately needed consistency for us, and well above average play.  Between him, Leno, and Cosmi, we have three good starters.  I think Paul is going to be a good one too.  Gates is a big center who should at least be able to anchor power rushing IDLs.  I don't know, but I think this group is better than we think.

I don’t get the cynicism towards Wylie. He’s an upgrade at RT or RG. 
 

I don’t have an opinion on Paul. Seemed okay versus Dallas. Could build on it. 
 

Cosmi, though, worries me. He barely stays healthy long enough to string together consecutive games (or at least it feels like it). Gates/Paul/Charles/Wylie help there. Because there is position flex. But because we start off with a starter type probably an injury concern it snowballs quick. 

[Est.1974]

We’ve upgraded C and RT plus added enough bodies onto the roster to solidify depth. Gone from below average to better than average. It’s progress.

 

May well need or add real quality at LT next season. 

[Warhead36]

I'm fine with Wylie. He'll upgrade RT and allow Lucas to play the backup swing Tackle/6th man role which he's perfect for.

 

I'm not sold on Paul though. I don't think he'll suck or anything don't get me wrong, I just wouldn't assume he'll be anything. If he earns the starting spot then fine, but that could also be an indictment on the rest of the line. 

 

I think our best case starting 5 is Leno - Gates - Stromberg - Cosmi - Wylie. 

[bird_1972]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

Cosmi, though, worries me. He barely stays healthy long enough to string together consecutive games (or at least it feels like it). Gates/Paul/Charles/Wylie help there. Because there is position flex. But because we start off with a starter type probably an injury concern it snowballs quick. 

 

Me too. 

 

I'm hopeful that either Ron (or the new regime) prioritizes drafting a top OT next year.

[kingdaddy]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t get the cynicism towards Wylie. He’s an upgrade at RT or RG. 
 

I don’t have an opinion on Paul. Seemed okay versus Dallas. Could build on it. 
 

Cosmi, though, worries me. He barely stays healthy long enough to string together consecutive games (or at least it feels like it). Gates/Paul/Charles/Wylie help there. Because there is position flex. But because we start off with a starter type probably an injury concern it snowballs quick. 

EB will make Cosmi a solid player.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

EB will make Cosmi a solid player.

My concerns have nothing to do with Cosmi as a player.

[Est.1974]

I think Charles sticks around before Cosmi. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 hours ago, KDawg said:

So… you believe you’re the only one that had that thought?

 

Calm down guys.  At the time I made that post I didn't hear too many others with the same thought. Looking through the thread that talk is now dominating the discussion.  That's all I was saying.  

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think Charles sticks around before Cosmi. 

If Cosmi gets injured I could see that. I know Charles is still young but hasn't proven much of anything as a player. It's hard for me not to identify him as a disappointment. I was thrilled when we drafted him.

Edited May 8, 2023 by DWinzit

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think Charles sticks around before Cosmi. 

Based on what? Cosmi has at least played significant meaningful snaps and has shown flashes of being a good player. I don't think Charles has shown much of anything. He'll probably be cut in camp.

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Based on what? Cosmi has at least played significant meaningful snaps and has shown flashes of being a good player. I don't think Charles has shown much of anything. He'll probably be cut in camp.

Maybe so. Time will tell. Charles will be an EB guy IMO.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

Maybe so. Time will tell. Charles will be an EB guy IMO.

I noticed Charles was at EB's introductory presser and they hugged. My bet is that EB rides the underperforming linemen from last season pretty hard in camp and that the soft ones get sorted out and cut. We'll see who steps up and takes the spots. 

[Koolblue13]

16 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 He'll upgrade RT

He is definitely better than injured Cosmi at RT.

 

He's never been a good tackle. He's an average guard though, which would help if we played him there.

 

Leno, Gates, Larson (?), Cosmi, Wylie to start

 

Leno, Paul, Gates, Wylie, Lucas by week 4

 

Leno, Charles, Strom, Gates, Wylie by week 6

 

Leno is still our only legit starter of value on this line. 

 

It's definitely a better group than last year, if for no other reason than they're healthy, but Gates does have an injury history.

 

I can't believe people were mentioning Leno as a possible post draft cut, regardless of who we drafted. 

 

So, we have hope again.

[terpfan]

I’ve gotten the vibe that they like Paul a lot. Wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up as the starter at LG. 

[skinny21]

32 minutes ago, terpfan said:

I’ve gotten the vibe that they like Paul a lot. Wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up as the starter at LG. 

Don’t recall the story exactly, but my optimism stems from the defensive guys talking him up to the coaches.  He’s still got a lot of work to do though.

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He is definitely better than injured Cosmi at RT.

 

He's never been a good tackle. He's an average guard though, which would help if we played him there.

 

Leno, Gates, Larson (?), Cosmi, Wylie to start

 

Leno, Paul, Gates, Wylie, Lucas by week 4

 

Leno, Charles, Strom, Gates, Wylie by week 6

 

Leno is still our only legit starter of value on this line. 

 

It's definitely a better group than last year, if for no other reason than they're healthy, but Gates does have an injury history.

 

I can't believe people were mentioning Leno as a possible post draft cut, regardless of who we drafted. 

 

So, we have hope again.

The Gates injury history gets a little glossed over but yeah, missed almost the full 2021 and 1/2 2022 season with the gross leg injury(tib and fib). May be a big factor in why we were able to get him.

 

I don't trust Charles and expect his departure.

[KDawg]

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

The Gates injury history gets a little glossed over but yeah, missed almost the full 2021 and 1/2 2022 season with the gross leg injury(tib and fib). May be a big factor in why we were able to get him.

 

I don't trust Charles and expect his departure.

Oh, good news! We replaced our high end injury prone center with a lower end injury prone center/guard. 
 

I really hope this line stays healthy. 

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Oh, good news! We replaced our high end injury prone center with a lower end injury prone center/guard. 
 

I really hope this line stays healthy. 

Yeah and the cynicism on this board over the OL injury concerns are pretty substantiated based on the past few years of patchwork OL...QB's too for that matter. Why I hoped for a decent QB3.  Fingers crossed they stay pretty healthy and many of these young guys show up big! Strom could be the starter ar C and do great at some point

[Warhead36]

We really need to invest more high end draft capital into our OL. Give it a major infusion of legitimate talent. Not just a mid round pick here and there. Unfortunately this wasn't the class to do it in I don't think. Though I suppose we shall see. 

[DWinzit]

59 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We really need to invest more high end draft capital into our OL. Give it a major infusion of legitimate talent. Not just a mid round pick here and there. Unfortunately this wasn't the class to do it in I don't think. Though I suppose we shall see. 

Not the best year for OL but there were a few worthy OLs at 47.  Some would say Harrison would have been worthy at 16