The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[drowland]

45 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

The Colts Owner was behind the Wentz trade.  It's clear now that he didn't have any locker room issues and that was perpetrated by the owner and his media team. 

As for 'the Colts are in win now mode', that isn't exactly true...they're in 'Not Loose Now Mode'. That's not good for more than a playoff birth. That team has more issues than QB with Matt Ryan managing the game. The owner wants a game manager, someone more conservative that won't loose games, not win games. We're talking about a guy like Alex Smith.  The contracts for Wentz vs Ryan are so close they're muted. Differences are in the type of QB you're getting and their style of play, clearly. Their individual playing styles are polar opposites.

WSH already knows what QB game manager results look like and that's not good enough.  Wentz is a strong armed QB who can toss over the top, on a line type balls all around the field. This is dangerous for opposing DC's to defend for 4 Qtrs and opens up what they do well on the ground in their offensive scheme. We haven't been able to see what the Scott Turner offense actually looks like because of limitations at QB and WR.  Now, he has nearly all the pieces to the puzzle. By the end of the draft the should have all the pieces they need to actually run all the plays that Scott Turner has wanted to call at any given moment in each game.  Taking the Wentz trade was an easy move in comparison to Ryan or Jimmy GQ.

 

By win now mode I mean they have a lot of really good players all their prime.  It's about getting in the playoff field and then anything can happen.  Wentz **** the bed.  Ballard was pissed as well as the owner because he knows the clock is ticking and wasn't going to waste their talent on Wentz or another reclamation project.

 

I'm fine with taking a swing on Wentz since the contract will be easy to get out of, but the guy hasn't been good in years and it seems because Ron used the Gibbs QB evaluation methodology everyone's buying what Ron's feeding you.  

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Its not an open ended question to the people with that belief.

 

It is a philosophical question to anyone who makes the debate of "there were no good options" and then continues to proclaim Wentz a good option.

 

 

It is probably one of if not the leading argument I have seen on here, but it ignores that If you acknowledge there are no good options, Wentz can not himself be a good option.

 

 

If people want to argue Wentz merits, there are certainly better ways to do it, but A lot of what I am seeing is people telling me nothing good was available on one hand, yet we locked in good QB on the other.

Just seems contradictory.

 

 

 

There may be a few people but the majority is saying it was the next best thing from what they really wanted which was Wilson. I know you keep saying it as an argument but unless you are referring to other sites, that is just not how it's being characterized by the majority. It's mostly that it "could" be a good deal if he works out. But until he plays it just is what it is. There is a high ceiling but there is also a very low floor. 

 

 

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Sure I can

 

GB didn't know Rodgers was playing for them next year. Now they do. Ditto w/ BradyBucs and others.

 

We live in a world were teams with massive question marks surrounding their QB roles around the NFL were filled by Wilson, Watson, Rodgers, Brady, Ryan and more all in the same offseason. That is certainly gonna weight on how teams view their teams situation and how we view our own.

 

This just makes no sense to claim teams "found" thier solution when they kept who was already in house and a known quantity. BTW: Tom Brady had to go back to Tampa if he comes back. I did forget Watson to that's all of 2, not "tons". Moving on as it's clear we need to agree to disagree. 

 

Again, I see I high ceiling and a good potential but it could also be a complete disaster. So, there is a potential for this to be a good trade but right now it is not. it's an open question on if it's good or bad. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, CommDownMan said:

 

True wisdom.   Reminds me of my favorite kung fu panda quote.   

 

So I had a pilot come on the radio at 1:00am on a red-eye from Vegas to DC, announce he was being furloughed, said, “every day is a gift, that’s why they call it the present”, started to choke up, and I thought we were absolutely headed into the side of the Rocky Mountains.

[actorguy1]

Realistically, the main goal should be to have at least a mediocre level veteran starter at every position heading in to the draft. Looking at the roster, what positions still need a tier 2 ( or 3) level veteran so that the team can go closer to BPA in the draft?

[FootballZombie]

28 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

There may be a few people but the majority is saying it was the next best thing from what they really wanted which was Wilson.

 

I have seen much more than a few people go this route.

 

28 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I did forget Watson to that's all of 2, not "tons".

 

You said you'd give me Ryan, your up to at least 3 even if you don't count teams retaining their own QBs. How many do you need?

Off season aint even done yet and more moves are likely coming.

 

If Carr gets traded/extended or Mayfield gets traded and extended you could add to either off team or on team solutions

Edited March 22, 2022 by FootballZombie

[BraveWarrior]

7 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Ryan had a no trade clause and needed to approve his destination... We literally chose the QB who couldn't turn us down. Thats where we are, we need miracles people 

Imagine being a part of a roster where you know that good free agents and players with no-trade clauses want nothing to do with your team. How demoralizing is that? We're going into year 3 of a coaching staff that is all about culture change, yet our culture of losing and basic organizational ineptitude still hangs over the team like a dark black cloud. 

[sebestian]

17 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Realistically, the main goal should be to have at least a mediocre level veteran starter at every position heading in to the draft. Looking at the roster, what positions still need a tier 2 ( or 3) level veteran so that the team can go closer to BPA in the draft?

 

Good post.  I think MLB, WR, S.  In what ever order you can get.  MLB and WR are still available through FA.  Their are 4 safeties in the draft that could go in the top 40 picks overall.  Hamilton, Hill, Brisker and Cine.  Ultimately, I would love to solidify MLB first and foremost through FA.  This offseason will be perfect for me if they can get A MLB (whoever Wagner, Johnson, White, any tier 2 MLB or Wagner being tier 1)Obviously not a stiff but find a good MLB, their out their.  Draft Hamilton or Brisker(after a trade down for Brisker) the address WR by drafting Watson.  After that you could BPA anywhere, I mean you could draft anything you want.

 

MLB in FA

Draft J. Brisker s Penn St

Draft C. Watson NDSU

 

If this happens I am doing the Jackie Moon, and I will post it!!

1 hour ago, TheShredder said:

The Colts Owner was behind the Wentz trade.  It's clear now that he didn't have any locker room issues and that was perpetrated by the owner and his media team. 

As for 'the Colts are in win now mode', that isn't exactly true...they're in 'Not Loose Now Mode'. That's not good for more than a playoff birth. That team has more issues than QB with Matt Ryan managing the game. The owner wants a game manager, someone more conservative that won't loose games, not win games. We're talking about a guy like Alex Smith.  The contracts for Wentz vs Ryan are so close they're muted. Differences are in the type of QB you're getting and their style of play, clearly. Their individual playing styles are polar opposites.

WSH already knows what QB game manager results look like and that's not good enough.  Wentz is a strong armed QB who can toss over the top, on a line type balls all around the field. This is dangerous for opposing DC's to defend for 4 Qtrs and opens up what they do well on the ground in their offensive scheme. We haven't been able to see what the Scott Turner offense actually looks like because of limitations at QB and WR.  Now, he has nearly all the pieces to the puzzle. By the end of the draft the should have all the pieces they need to actually run all the plays that Scott Turner has wanted to call at any given moment in each game.  Taking the Wentz trade was an easy move in comparison to Ryan or Jimmy GQ.

THIS, THIS, AND MORE OF THIS.  

 

Great post.

 

All caps for emphasis not anger.

[MisterPinstripe]

9 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Imagine being a part of a roster where you know that good free agents and players with no-trade clauses want nothing to do with your team. How demoralizing is that? We're going into year 3 of a coaching staff that is all about culture change, yet our culture of losing and basic organizational ineptitude still hangs over the team like a dark black cloud. 

And yet JD chose to come back here for the same money he was offered in Buffalo. Maybe it's not that bad, maybe that's the fans assumptions but not any basis in fact. 

[sebestian]

14 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Imagine being a part of a roster where you know that good free agents and players with no-trade clauses want nothing to do with your team. How demoralizing is that? We're going into year 3 of a coaching staff that is all about culture change, yet our culture of losing and basic organizational ineptitude still hangs over the team like a dark black cloud. 

 

You cannot fire the owner.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Oh yeah?....this year the Eagles got the Lions and Jets while we had to go to Buffalo and Green Bay.....that's not overblown, that's two easy wins for one team and two almost certain losses for the other. Only a 3 game difference to the rest of the division????? As if that's easy to make up? It's a big factor and RR has said so himself in the past. Had we gotten to play Detroit and NYJ while the Eagles had to go to Buffalo and GB we make the playoffs and they don't. 

You can’t judge a schedule in March.

 

Teams rise, teams fall. The Ravens are the 4th place team I’m the AFC North.

 

Also, if we don’t crap the bed against the Saints and Broncos, we probably go to the playoffs anyway.  
 

Playing the schedule game is silly in the NFL.  It never ends up as it starts.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Imagine being a part of a roster where you know that good free agents and players with no-trade clauses want nothing to do with your team. How demoralizing is that? We're going into year 3 of a coaching staff that is all about culture change, yet our culture of losing and basic organizational ineptitude still hangs over the team like a dark black cloud. 

Yet J.D. McKissic had an offer from Buffalo and chose to stay here for the same money.

 

The cycle of negativity is between the owner, the media and the fans.  Most players at this point are above it.  A lot had a beef with Bruce, but he’s gone.  Our football people are well respected throughout the league.

[Jericho]

51 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Realistically, the main goal should be to have at least a mediocre level veteran starter at every position heading in to the draft. Looking at the roster, what positions still need a tier 2 ( or 3) level veteran so that the team can go closer to BPA in the draft?

 

MLB

 

You could argue a few more spots (Guard, WR2, maybe another LB), but MLB is the one glaring hole

[RWJ]

21 minutes ago, sebestian said:

 

Good post.  I think MLB, WR, S.  In what ever order you can get.  MLB and WR are still available through FA.  Their are 4 safeties in the draft that could go in the top 40 picks overall.  Hamilton, Hill, Brisker and Cine.  Ultimately, I would love to solidify MLB first and foremost through FA.  This offseason will be perfect for me if they can get A MLB (whoever Wagner, Johnson, White, any tier 2 MLB or Wagner being tier 1)Obviously not a stiff but find a good MLB, their out their.  Draft Hamilton or Brisker(after a trade down for Brisker) the address WR by drafting Watson.  After that you could BPA anywhere, I mean you could draft anything you want.

 

MLB in FA

Draft J. Brisker s Penn St

Draft C. Watson NDSU

 

If this happens I am doing the Jackie Moon, and I will post it!!

 

We are almost on the same wave.  I like a trade down and the picks you have.  I don't know about any Jackie Moon as I am almost 60 but this I will say:  After trading down far enough to acquire a 2nd and at the very least an early 3rd, I go Brisker with our 1st, Muma with our 2nd and Watson with our 3rd.  Somehow, I think that there is a QB that we like this year that we target to learn under Wentz.  Whether it's Ridder, Strong or whoever I think we draft one.  We may use 2023 ammo to do it with too.  I don't know but getting those 3 players to me you can do a Jackie Moon for me too.   One other thing, in the 4th round.  We need to come away with a legit TE.  We found one last year in Bates and we will find one again this year to really bring out the best in Scott Turner's O which thrives in TEs.  Just my 2 cents.  

[MrJL]

57 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Realistically, the main goal should be to have at least a mediocre level veteran starter at every position heading in to the draft. Looking at the roster, what positions still need a tier 2 ( or 3) level veteran so that the team can go closer to BPA in the draft?

 

 

Middle Linebacker.  That's it, unless you're writing off people coming off injuries.  That's why I don't see the desperation everyone else does

[RWJ]

11 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yet J.D. McKissic had an offer from Buffalo and chose to stay here for the same money.

 

The cycle of negativity is between the owner, the media and the fans.  Most players at this point are above it.  A lot had a beef with Bruce, but he’s gone.  Our football people are well respected throughout the league.

The deal I think should be with the player or agent not the Commander F.O..  J.D. decided to come back.  We didn't offer any more money than they did and many players have 2nd thoughts.  Again, as muddy as the water was in 2012 the same thing happened to us and Eddie Royal when Mike Shanahan was here as HC.

[MrJL]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You can’t judge a schedule in March.

 

Teams rise, teams fall. The Ravens are the 4th place team I’m the AFC North.

 

Also, if we don’t crap the bed against the Saints and Broncos, we probably go to the playoffs anyway.  
 

Playing the schedule game is silly in the NFL.  It never ends up as it starts.  

 

I said this earlier, but I don't think many people are looking at the easier schedule from the perspective of "oh, it's easier cause we're not the first place team compared to the rest of the division," but from the perspective of the 2022 schedule is simply easier than the 2021 schedule, full stop.

 

[sebestian]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

We are almost on the same wave.  I like a trade down and the picks you have.  I don't know about any Jackie Moon as I am almost 60 but this I will say:  After trading down far enough to acquire a 2nd and at the very least an early 3rd, I go Brisker with our 1st, Muma with our 2nd and Watson with our 3rd.  Somehow, I think that there is a QB that we like this year that we target to learn under Wentz.  Whether it's Ridder, Strong or whoever I think we draft one.  We may use 2023 ammo to do it with too.  I don't know but getting those 3 players to me you can do a Jackie Moon for me too.   One other thing, in the 4th round.  We need to come away with a legit TE.  We found one last year in Bates and we will find one again this year to really bring out the best in Scott Turner's O which thrives in TEs.  Just my 2 cents.  

 

You got it.  Watch the movie Semi-Pro, and you will know the Jackie Moon. One caveat, is that you need to like Will Farrell's type of humor. 

 

I am also with you on using 23 draft capital if need be to get these guys. 

 

The only problem I foresee is that  Watson will never make it to the third rd.,  He is going within the top 15 picks of the 2nd rd.  Muma we can get in the third I believe. I really like Watson, and I think he is the key.  I mean he is a stud.  Brisker as well.  I don't think this can happen but I would love to get Detroit pick # 32 and #34 for our #11.  I think base on the draft points chart, Det would have to add a little juice as well.  If we have 32, 34, 47 that equals Brisker, Watson and Muma, and then we have Jackie Moon.  

 

I also agree developmental QB being drafted.

 

Great post.

[Peregrine]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

 

 

Middle Linebacker.  That's it, unless you're writing off people coming off injuries.  That's why I don't see the desperation everyone else does

The team was 7-10 and was not good last year.  MLB, S, CB, G, WR2 are all glaring holes right now.  Adding one player doesnt all of the sudden give a team, that hasnt had a winning season in over 5 years, a well built roster without holes.

[RWJ]

48 minutes ago, sebestian said:

 

You got it.  Watch the movie Semi-Pro, and you will know the Jackie Moon. One caveat, is that you need to like Will Farrell's type of humor. 

 

I am also with you on using 23 draft capital if need be to get these guys. 

 

The only problem I foresee is that  Watson will never make it to the third rd.,  He is going within the top 15 picks of the 2nd rd.  Muma we can get in the third I believe. I really like Watson, and I think he is the key.  I mean he is a stud.  Brisker as well.  I don't think this can happen but I would love to get Detroit pick # 32 and #34 for our #11.  I think base on the draft points chart, Det would have to add a little juice as well.  If we have 32, 34, 47 that equals Brisker, Watson and Muma, and then we have Jackie Moon.  

 

I also agree developmental QB being drafted.

 

Great post.

According to the 2022 NFL Trade Value Chart (drafttek.com), If we were to trade with the Lions and they moved up from 32 to 11, they would need to surrender via the chart:  their 32, 34 and 97.  After sending us their 32 and 42 there would be 100 pts. difference so the 97 is worth 112 pts.  That's a 12-point favor for us. Doable.  That'd be a low 1st, 2nd pick in the 2nd round to go along with our 47 in the 2nd and a very low 3rd round pick.  So we'd have 32(1st), 34(2nd), 47(2nd), 97(3rd), 113(4th), 189(6th), 230(7th), 240(7th).  This all according to Drafttek's chart.  If you'd go through all the draft simulators and they can change.  I did the 2 nights ago, WR Watson was there in all of them in the 3rd.  With our 1, 2 and 2 we have if we were to make this trade we'd get Brisker, Muma and Watson if we chose to draft him in the 2nd!  A win.  

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I have seen much more than a few people go this route.

 

 

3 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

You said you'd give me Ryan, your up to at least 3 even if you don't count teams retaining their own QBs. How many do you need?

Off season aint even done yet and more moves are likely coming.

 

If Carr gets traded/extended or Mayfield gets traded and extended you could add to either off team or on team solutions

 

This truly is my last response. If Carr gets traded, then yes you can add him.  Mayfield no ****ing chance. His team can't et rid of him fact enough. So by that logic everyone who kept a QB found their long term solution??  Hurts? He sucks. Tua? Another back-up. Kyler Murray wants out and is he really a franchise guy? Daniel Jones? So the majority of the teams are punting to next year and taking the best shot they can right now, 

 

You sad "tons" of teams found their long term solution. So far even by truly stretching it there were 3, although Matt Ryan is not. So 3 is "tons"???? Not!  LOL

 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

This truly is my last response. If Carr gets traded, then yes you can add him.  Mayfield no ****ing chance. His team can't et rid of him fact enough. So by that logic everyone who kept a QB found their long term solution??  Hurts? He sucks. Tua? Another back-up. Kyler Murray wants out and is he really a franchise guy? Daniel Jones? So the majority of the teams are punting to next year and taking the best shot they can right now, 

 

You sad "tons" of teams found their long term solution. So far even by truly stretching it there were 3, although Matt Ryan is not. So 3 is "tons"???? Not!  LOL

 

Everyone who committed large resources to their QB, and they are subsequently not under the microscope of being given the chance to become the answer, are what I am referring to. They are already understood to be the answer, and it does not matter where the player came from to earn that distinction, in-house or not.

 

Hurts and Tua were not signed/extended at all let alone for big money. They don't factor in as their orgs have not committed to them much more than the bare minimum of honoring their current contacts. If Mayfield is traded and extended (it would depend on the deal tho), that is a team committing to him long term so he would factor in the same way Carr would if the Raiders either extend him, or if he is traded and extended. Same goes for Kyler Murray if he receives a long deal.

 

You can also add in Kirk Cousins getting a big money extension allowing him to stay w/ the Vikes for an additional year beyond the current one. I forgot about him

 

 

 

I've got 3 orgs committing to their answer this year who came from new teams, (Wilison, Watson, Ryan) with several more committing to the answer on their roster (Brady, Rodgers, Cousins, Stafford), w/ the likely potential for more on both lists in the form of trades or extensions between Carr, Murray, Jimmy G, Lamar, Baker and the draft all this year.

 

That is a sizable % of NFL orgs, that is a ton

 

 

Players like Wentz, Mariota, Winston and Trubisky are being offered a chance to become the answer, but they are not understood to be that yet, so they don't get included. They will each undergo an audition first. Thats the difference here. Even if most of this group of players come from new teams.

Edited March 22, 2022 by FootballZombie

[MrJL]

5 hours ago, Peregrine said:

The team was 7-10 and was not good last year.  MLB, S, CB, G, WR2 are all glaring holes right now.  Adding one player doesnt all of the sudden give a team, that hasnt had a winning season in over 5 years, a well built roster without holes.

 

 

Then people were being full of **** when they said we desperately needed a QB.  The secondary is not a hole.  Jackson was finally adapting to the defense when he got hurt.  McCain was playing better.  Curl and Fuller were always fine.  St. Juste was also okay till he got that concussion.  We need a couple backups.  Guard- Norwell is a starter and Schweitzer has played well for us.  We need a swing backup.  WR2 being a hole requires you to write of Samuel. 

 

As I said, these spots are only holes if you write off people who had injuries.  I'm not gonna do that

[sebestian]

44 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

 

Then people were being full of **** when they said we desperately needed a QB.  The secondary is not a hole.  Jackson was finally adapting to the defense when he got hurt.  McCain was playing better.  Curl and Fuller were always fine.  St. Juste was also okay till he got that concussion.  We need a couple backups.  Guard- Norwell is a starter and Schweitzer has played well for us.  We need a swing backup.  WR2 being a hole requires you to write of Samuel. 

 

As I said, these spots are only holes if you write off people who had injuries.  I'm not gonna do that

 

I could not agree more.  We have a much better roster than most people think.  MLB notwithstanding.

[CommDownMan]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So I had a pilot come on the radio at 1:00am on a red-eye from Vegas to DC, announce he was being furloughed, said, “every day is a gift, that’s why they call it the present”, started to choke up, and I thought we were absolutely headed into the side of the Rocky Mountains.

 

I could understand if you don't appreciate this quote as much as I do.   That would trigger me a bit too.   Haha

[Playaction2Sanders]

So we let Ioannidis walk to Carolina, he was a 5th round pick in '16 ranked 38th in PFF as interior linesman IN LIMITED WORK this year.  Feels like we're gonna try to keep Payne drafted in '18 yet he's only ranked 32nd on PFF but a 1st rounder....I feel Payne is probably gonna cost hella more vs Matt and, you figure it out... I'm going outside, I need fresh air..