The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal Cunningham 2 or Bayou Bob? MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB2

[Skinsinparadise]

I saw the Benjamin Albright tweet but I shrugged it off. He's plugged into to Denver but I've seen him end up dead wrong too even about them.  Also either Ron said or someone said this about him (don't recall if it was from Ron or someone said it about him) they like to poke around on most players as for those on the trading block to learn what teams are asking for for future reference or to comparison shop.  

 

Just listened to Finlay talk about this on air, he doesn't think they are interested.  He talked to multiple people in the building he said on there said "Oh my God no".  As to this is what they always say about rumors, that's not so.  Is it possible that they are lying through their teeth and really love Tua, yeah, I doubt it but anything is possible.  

 

Again the Stafford rumors for example weren't greeted with hell no that's not true.  

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Didn't think of Carolina

 

 

 

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I saw the Benjamin Albright tweet but I shrugged it off. He's plugged into to Denver but I've seen him end up dead wrong too even about them.  Also either Ron said or someone said this about him (don't recall if it was from Ron or someone said it about him) they like to poke around on most players as for those on the trading block to learn what teams are asking for for future reference or to comparison shop.  

 

Just listened to Finlay talk about this on air, he doesn't think they are interested.  He talked to multiple people in the building he said on there said "Oh my God no".  As to this is what they always say about rumors, that's not so.  Is it possible that they are lying through their teeth and really love Tua, yeah, I doubt it but anything is possible.  

 

Again the Stafford rumors for example weren't greeted with hell no that's not true.  

Doesn’t poking around count as interest, though?

[mistertim]

54 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Maybe it'll be a selling point for him.

 

*ducks and runs away*

 

[Jumbo]

i say we quit messing with discount bin minshew and go get the real thing!!!!

 

[Est.1974]

This all seems like the talk from several weeks back is resurfacing. Even the link to Carolina was there previously. 
 

Eagles are going to have the ammo to blow most out of the water come next offseason. Perhaps a move now by the others is an attempt to undercut them pre draft for Watson.

[Skinsinparadise]

Heck yes, our team is a living document on this point, yeah exceptions exist to any rule but betting against the house is typically a losing bet. 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[CjSuAvE22]

I see a lot of "we dont develop quarterbacks" theres an entire thread on how we are suppose to have a new front office new coaching etc yet we still fall back on "we dont develop quarterbacks" do quarterbacks just not develop in WFT uniforms or something? I dont understand the logic here..

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I see a lot of "we dont develop quarterbacks" theres an entire thread on how we are suppose to have a new front office new coaching etc yet we still fall back on "we dont develop quarterbacks" do quarterbacks just not develop in WFT uniforms or something? I dont understand the logic here..

Kurt Cousins has entered the chat.

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I see a lot of "we dont develop quarterbacks" theres an entire thread on how we are suppose to have a new front office new coaching etc yet we still fall back on "we dont develop quarterbacks" do quarterbacks just not develop in WFT uniforms or something? I dont understand the logic here..

 

We develop them if they're good enough. Problem is they largely haven't been good enough.

 

New regime yes, but the same owner. Always a wild card 🤦🏻

[Spaceman Spiff]

I would draft a quarterback in every round.  

 

Yes, that's right.  Rounds 1-7, quarterbacks.

 

"But Spaceman, LOL that's never been done before!!  What about all our other needs?!?!?!?!?!111"

 

**** our other needs.  A true franchise, game changing quarterback helps more than anything else.  

 

We're cutting Fitzy, Heinicke and Allen.  None of them are a long term option, except as perhaps a backup.  Even then, we're drafting 7 quarterbacks so we'll have a backup.

 

One will have to work out, we just have to stack the odds in our favor.  So we'll be able to dress three quarterbacks on Sundays, stash one on the practice squad...the rest?  I dunno.  We can put one at safety, they can't be as bad at safety as Landon Collins is.  I don't know who Chris Blewitt is, but odds are he'll be a ****ty kicker so we can have another fill his spot when he implodes.  The remaining qb?  I dunno, we'll figure something out.  Maybe he can be a tight end or something.

 

Then, when one of our first three quarterbacks goes down with an injury or underperforms, we can swap one of these guys in.

 

Think I'm kidding?  I'm not kidding.  Draft 7 quarterbacks.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Parts of that Standig article, I also posted that in the draft thread because the subject was debated there

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Doesn’t poking around count as interest, though?

 

Not that way it was described, which is they don't have to be interested in the actual player but instead what is the team asking for as a guideline for them to understand the market at said position.  I recall the discussion at the time was about Darnold. 

 

So if the point is they might not be interested in Tua to be on this team but they are interested in what the Dolphins are asking for as to understand the QB market in general, then yeah.  But it was couched as two different things.  

 

Albright isn't gospel by a long shot, I forgot what it was but I recall he got a trade rumor royally wrong about this team not long ago, it was either last off season or the previous off season.  i am just giving him props that if he's not wrong, it could be them prying about trade value versus them being interested in the player.

 

I don't trust Finlay as gospel either.  But I do believe in what he's selling which is they are in in the market for a QB in a big way this coming off season.  It echoes reporters I do trust like Keim.  It also makes sense.   The hard thing is whom?   But feeling out the trade market makes a lot of sense. 

 

I don't think Tua is the guy.  I guess if they do it as a flier like the Panthers did for Darnold, I'd understand it to an extent.  Panthers could end up bombing on Darnold, its headed on that track now, and yet try again.  We can do the same.  I am not excited about Tua as a shot at that lottery.    I don't get the impression based on people who are supposedly in the know that they are excited about Tua either.   But I'll say it would be funny as heck if this turns the other way and they chase Tua, a lot of local reporters would look like fools.   On the off chance they do it, my mind would not change one whit as for being in the QB game next off season -- until Tua proved otherwise. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

23 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I see a lot of "we dont develop quarterbacks" theres an entire thread on how we are suppose to have a new front office new coaching etc yet we still fall back on "we dont develop quarterbacks" do quarterbacks just not develop in WFT uniforms or something? I dont understand the logic here..

 

Kirk is probably only QB we drafted that didn't fail horribly here, but imo never took the step needed to be the guy we should've given what the Vikings gave him.  We really don't have a history of developing elite franchise QBs the last 20 years to lean on despite all the first rounders we've used.  Its always something, with the culture at the top typically having something to do with the failure, a constant in any future draft pick will have to deal with.

[Jabbyrwock]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Doesn’t poking around count as interest, though?

 

Of course!  But I'd make sure and use protection while poking around otherwise you'll end up with a 18 year contract with a hell of a lot of guaranteed money.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Kirk is probably only QB we drafted that didn't fail horribly here, but imo never took the step needed to be the guy we should've given what the Vikings gave him.  We really don't have a history of developing elite franchise QBs the last 20 years to lean on despite all the first rounders we've used.  Its always something, with the culture at the top typically having something to do with the failure, a constant in any future draft pick will have to deal with.

 

They could have gotten Kirk cheaper but they let the movie play out.  As I said many times Kirk owes Bruce a commission since he helped make him a wealthy man.  But I don't give a rats behind now, my main interest after he left was to make the case that Bruce is a buffoon.  That played out and he was canned.  So without Bruce, my interest has gone away.  So now to me its spilled milk.   And for whatever reason, some (not you) are obsessed with every up and down of Kirk's career.  For me once a player leaves, I let go.  But to each their own. 

 

When we've had good (not great QB play) 2015-2016, arguably the first half of 2018, we've in turned been competitive.   Heck even JC was hot for half of a season and they went 6-2. When we've not had that we've mostly stunk, at least its been the case post Gibbs 2.  The one flash of great QB play IMO was 2012 and the stadium was full and there was real excitement about the team. 

 

We've thrown a lot of picks and money at the spot but most of it wasn't smart and at least some of it was challenged in real time by people here including myself.  I did like the hard swing at RG3 though.  Going after 2nd tier prospects and veterans on the decline at full force to me doesn't connote taking a big shot at this. 

 

If we want a Ferrari, or at least at a Corvette then chase that car.  If we are going to overpay for Honda Accords and expect them to be high end sports cars, we are bound to be dissappointed.  That's somewhat hyperbole on my end but its the best analogy I can think of to make my point.  While I disagree with the agent that Finlay quoted that this team has a Wallmart approach to the position.  I do agree to an extent that this team has been gun shy to swing and miss in the draft, I presume because of the RG3 miss.  

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now from the Athletic

 

 

[Renegade7]

By time Kirk proved to me he was legit starter, the game of chicken was already over, we jus didn't know it yet.  Thats really all want to say more on the Kirk topic.

[GOATFrerotte]

The QB market is rough right now. Pretty much Minshew, Tua, or Jimmy G are the best options. Even the young backups you can pray to develop aren't there. Maybe Drew Lock? Yikes... luckily we have so much wrong with us we don't need to rush on getting a qb right now. Sticking with Heinicke (sp?), giving Kyle Allen a chance, or waiting for Fitz might be our best option. The draft is looking rough for qbs this year though. It's really disappointing our defense has crumbled like it has, would have been nice to be able to build around last years defense. Now we're in a tough spot.

[CjSuAvE22]

7 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

The QB market is rough right now. Pretty much Minshew, Tua, or Jimmy G are the best options. 

I like Jimmy G as the best option here, Tua would require a trade, but I look at a Jimmy g situation strictly as a stop gap, I think we can build up a team with him at QB and when we think we find our guy in the draft either trade up to get him or hope he falls to us, the end game is still a young dynamic qb imo. 

[heyholetsgogrant]

1 hour ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I see a lot of "we dont develop quarterbacks" theres an entire thread on how we are suppose to have a new front office new coaching etc yet we still fall back on "we dont develop quarterbacks" do quarterbacks just not develop in WFT uniforms or something? I dont understand the logic here..

There’s no such thing as developing a QB, either you have the talent or don’t. Of all of the QB’s that failed here, did any of them really have a shot succeeding anywhere else?

Edited October 21, 2021 by heyholetsgogrant

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not that way it was described, which is they don't have to be interested in the actual player but instead what is the team asking for as a guideline for them to understand the market at said position.  I recall the discussion at the time was about Darnold. 

 

So if the point is they might not be interested in Tua to be on this team but they are interested in what the Dolphins are asking for as to understand the QB market in general, then yeah.  But it was couched as two different things.  

 

Albright isn't gospel by a long shot, I forgot what it was but I recall he got a trade rumor royally wrong about this team not long ago, it was either last off season or the previous off season.  i am just giving him props that if he's not wrong, it could be them prying about trade value versus them being interested in the player.

 

I don't trust Finlay as gospel either.  But I do believe in what he's selling which is they are in in the market for a QB in a big way this coming off season.  It echoes reporters I do trust like Keim.  It also makes sense.   The hard thing is whom?   But feeling out the trade market makes a lot of sense. 

 

I don't think Tua is the guy.  I guess if they do it as a flier like the Panthers did for Darnold, I'd understand it to an extent.  Panthers could end up bombing on Darnold, its headed on that track now, and yet try again.  We can do the same.  I am not excited about Tua as a shot at that lottery.    I don't get the impression based on people who are supposedly in the know that they are excited about Tua either.   But I'll say it would be funny as heck if this turns the other way and they chase Tua, a lot of local reporters would look like fools.   On the off chance they do it, my mind would not change one whit as for being in the QB game next off season -- until Tua proved otherwise. 

 

Of course we were going to be in the market for a QB in a big way this coming offseason.  With the signing of Fitzy for a one year deal, the thought was to ride this defense with an average quarterback.  That's all out the window.

 

We were always headed into this offseason looking for a QB, that hasn't changed.  I don't believe that Tua is the guy, I don't want him here.

 

I wanted Mac Jones so ****ing bad in the last draft.  And of course he's completing 71% of his passes so far this year.  Yeah, the QB/INT ratio isn't great but I'd kill for a guy who completes 71% of his passes.  Mac Jones will be fine moving forward.

 

I dunno if there's anyone like that in the upcoming draft but I want the most accurate guy there is.  IMO, there's no other way to skin this cat, we have to nail it in the draft.  You can take someone who's 2 or 3 years in like Darnold and give them a fresh start but as you mentioned, Darnold is quickly headed south.  Gambling on a change of scenery is worse than gambling in the draft, IMO.  A guy like Darnold's already been in the league, he's been mediocre at best and people think the WFT is the place to salvage a career?  No chance.  A guy like Darnold already has tape in the NFL, so does Tua.  Neither have been super impressive, odds are that won't change here.  Odds are that won't change anywhere.  

 

We just have to nail it in the draft, there's no other way.  I don't want to hear about free agency, that's not a viable, long term option either.  

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Of course we were going to be in the market for a QB in a big way this coming offseason.  With the signing of Fitzy for a one year deal, the thought was to ride this defense with an average quarterback.  That's all out the window.

 

We were always headed into this offseason looking for a QB, that hasn't changed.  I don't believe that Tua is the guy, I don't want him here.

 

I wanted Mac Jones so ****ing bad in the last draft.  And of course he's completing 71% of his passes so far this year.  Yeah, the QB/INT ratio isn't great but I'd kill for a guy who completes 71% of his passes.  Mac Jones will be fine moving forward.

 

I dunno if there's anyone like that in the upcoming draft but I want the most accurate guy there is.  IMO, there's no other way to skin this cat, we have to nail it in the draft.  You can take someone who's 2 or 3 years in like Darnold and give them a fresh start but as you mentioned, Darnold is quickly headed south.  Gambling on a change of scenery is worse than gambling in the draft, IMO.  A guy like Darnold's already been in the league, he's been mediocre at best and people think the WFT is the place to salvage a career?  No chance.  A guy like Darnold already has tape in the NFL, so does Tua.  Neither have been super impressive, odds are that won't change here.  Odds are that won't change anywhere.  

 

We just have to nail it in the draft, there's no other way.  I don't want to hear about free agency, that's not a viable, long term option either.  

While I'm not as aggressive as you, I absolutely go after the best vet I can get, then draft one very high and again a little later and probably get another one or two for the PS. I really want to see 4 or 5 new QBs on the team next time the roster is at 90.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

There’s no such thing as developing a QB, either you have the talent or don’t. Of all of the QB’s that failed here, did any of them really have a shot succeeding anywhere else?

 

I think this is half right.  I understand where you're coming from. 

 

Let's be clear, everyone that gets drafted into the NFL is talented.  Even a guy like Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell...built like brick ****houses, million dollar arms.  Just can't put it together at the next level for whatever reason...poor attitudes, poor discipline, can't adjust to the speed of the game....but they all have talent.  They all have more athletic abilities in their little fingers than any of us do.  The biggest NFL draft busts are still in the top 1% of athletes in the world.

 

I agree that of all the QBs that failed here, none of them had a shot of succeeding elsewhere.  Patrick Ramsey, Jason Campbell (even though he carved out a decent career as a backup for 8 or 9 years), RG3, Haskins...none of them had a shot, really.  Look at a guy like Darnold, he is proving to be what he is, which is not very good despite a change of scenery.  Josh Rosen never figured it out despite being traded, released, whatever.  

 

I will agree with you, most of these guys are who they are no matter where they go or who they're coached by. 

 

But there is such a thing as developing a quarterback.  I don't give a **** that I'm about to say this and I will give anyone the finger who disagrees but we did it with Kirk Cousins.  Kirk absolutely went from an interception machine to a solid (not spectacular) quarterback while here.  Certainly the best quarterback we've had in the Snyder-era for an extended period of time (yes, I know it's a low bar to hurdle).

 

Look how many people were ready to give up on Josh Allen in Buffalo.  That was a guy who was drafted 7th overall out of a small-ish school and was terrible his first year.  52% completion percentage, 10 touchdowns and 12 picks.

 

If we picked a quarterback 7th overall who performed that ****ty, this fanbase would be calling for his head after 11 starts (which is what he got).  Hell, this fanbase would be ready to run him out of town after half that many games.

 

Buffalo brought him back the next year, they were unfazed and they didn't give a ****, they gave him all 16 gams.  And he got marginally better.  Bumped that completion percentage up to 58%, 20 touchdowns, 9 picks.  More importantly, they went 10 and 6.  Still, he wasn't great.  

 

2020?  Whole different ballgame, he played like an MVP.  He's playing like one again this year.  

 

Buffalo certainly developed Josh Allen, you can't convince me otherwise.  And this fanbase would absolutely NOT have the patience for something like that.

 

By and large, I agree with you...like I said, most of these guys are who they are.  But there is such a thing as developing a quarterback, for sure.  You can also point to Rodgers sitting on the bench for years behind Favre and Mahomes learning behind Alex Smith as quarterbacks who've been developed, too.  

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

While I'm not as aggressive as you, I absolutely go after the best vet I can get, then draft one very high and again a little later and probably get another one or two for the PS. I really want to see 4 or 5 new QBs on the team next time the roster is at 90.

 

I dunno who the veterans are that'll be available in free agency.  Maybe you can get one who can do what Fitz was supposed to do this year but again, probably not a long term option.  Certainly not a game changer the way Herbert is for the Chargers.

 

 

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

We just have to nail it in the draft, there's no other way.  

 

Hope you're not holding your breath.