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The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1


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1 minute ago, rumplestilskin said:

Says the guys who drafted Jarmarcus Russell. 😆 

Telesco was in Indianapolis when that mistake happened and he'd probably sue you for defamation for the mere suggestion he was involved in that decision.  :P

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4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Nothing will be cemented until after the pro day and you gotta see how FA goes as well. If you can't properly address OL, the thinking might change to go Daniels knowing that his mobility alleviates the need(somewhat)for immediate OL upgrades.


I don’t think you change who your top choice at QB is based on what you manage to do in FA this year. I highly doubt their grades will be that close, to allow that to be a true tiebreaker, feels extremely short-sighted. 

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13 minutes ago, Conn said:


I don’t think you change who your top choice at QB is based on what you manage to do in FA this year. I highly doubt their grades will be that close, to allow that to be a true tiebreaker, feels extremely short-sighted. 

 

 

Yea, I've never heard of such a thing, esp at QB. You want a guy that can adapt to change, not based on your roster at a given point in time. I agree, that is very short-sighted. Rosters turnover way too much for me to believe this is even a small factor in the decision.

 

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5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Well, well Mr. Keim hits often. All the draft rumors are taking a QB at 2...mostly Williams if he falls, otherwise Maye with an outside shot at Daniels. 

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7 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

1. Whatever your opinion of Daniels, sincr Orlovsky, Riddick, etc have been talking about him being QB1 the question was fine to ask. 

Ok, but let’s also just recognize they are know nothing idiots who’s opinion doesn’t really matter and have a out as much credibility to their opinions as you or I.

 

The funny thing about the most famous NFL draft feud ever, which honestly made the draft 100 times more interesting, was between Mel Kiper and Bill Tobin, the Colts GM.

 

Leo went to town on the Colts for passing on … wait for it … Trent Dilfer.  And said they had to because all they had was John Harbaugh.  
 

Well, frankly Mel was wrong.  Bill was a bit of a ninny for getting into a feud with Mel.  
 

All these draft guys, even Kiper, are more wrong than right.  Said differently, the GMs are wrong more than right, and the draftniks are more wrong than them. If they were more right, they would be hired to be personnel guys.  
 

So, the fact 2 guys who are paid not to be right but to keep the conversation going for 2 months with very little new information as the basis for a valid question is a flawed argument.

 

The my are media. They aren’t trying to be right.  They are trying to be interesting. 

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13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Well, well Mr. Keim hits often. All the draft rumors are taking a QB at 2...mostly Williams if he falls, otherwise Maye with an outside shot at Daniels. 


You’re doing what he’s warning against. imo he’s simply saying there is nothing to to know right now, there are not substantiated rumors, there is no lean towards whatever QB to be aware of. He’s saying don’t believe anything because there’s nothing definite to know right now 

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6 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

It was mostly a joke. However us putting it out there that Maye is number one on our board MIGHT make the Bears get FOMO or at least think twice. I know, I know... it is a little far fetched but with Caleb and his attitude in play you never know.

Or more likely, it puts more pressure on  someone who loves Drake to trade up to number one to get him? 2 more months of this 🥴

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On 3/2/2024 at 11:18 AM, Command The 414 said:

Totally agreed… specially the own it and answer for it statement…. My fear today is these athletes are doing everything they can to present perfection… somewhere we’ve got lost to dignity imho to admit just who we are, sometimes I wonder if it’s a social media effect… they don’t want to throw, run and now in Daniels case weigh in cause they don’t want to be seen in the Social Media world as having defects or not being perfect… maybe I’m just diving to deep into this but I see a huge red flag over all this 

The whole point is value. The combine can hurt guys and help guys and its the agents job to understand the relative value of the combine to the particular. You can bull---- all you want about dignity and strength and yada yada, but it's one of the few things they can control in relation to the draft and they have a right to do that. We've all seen what can happen to guys that ---- the bed. Keenan Allen ran injured, recorded a crap 40 time and had his value totally tank. This has happened repeatedly. Kyren ran two years ago and was so bad he went 5th. Sean Tucker had a bad medical (and yet was cleared to play that very same summer), and went from a day 2/4th rounder at worst to undrafted. 

 

There are real world consequences for what happens here that can radically impact the players career and lives. They have to decide for themselves what value there is in it. Personally I think Jayden was nuts to not run. The perfect way to play it was probably to run, but not weigh in, record a sick 40 time, then add weight before the pro day. But there was definitely value for Jayden, it was his way to add some more weight to his angle to be the #2 guy by blowing people away in the 40. Instead, what we got this weekend was a ton of reports that Maye was #2 for a lot of people and #1 for a few, and Jayden was #1 on basically the boards of two of the stupidest teams around in recent years (Atlanta and Oakland). 

 

I don't really get his thinking, but it is what it is, and it's for them to decide that. The huge red flag to me is utter nonsense though. This is about retaining value and or improving it, and if you can't do that at the combine, you shouldn't do the testing to begin with, take advantage of your school's bull---- track conditions and half baked hand times, and faulty as hell measurements lol. 

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On 3/2/2024 at 12:31 PM, Dah-Dee said:

Not QB info, sorry, but Texas WR Adonai Mitchell had the best WR long jump at 11'4" and just ran a 4.35 40. Daaaang dude.

May all time fav statistic on WR combine data has been the worse your bench press, the better the hit rate as a professional. For WR's, the combine data is largely not helpful other than thresholds like a 4.65 40 or below etc (there have been like 2 guys the last 30 years with substantially worse 40's than 4.65 who hit, Boldin, and Allen, might be one other that I forgot, but 4.65 is a pretty good threshold piece for that. The combine data is more reliable for TE's and RB's by far than for WR's. 

On 3/2/2024 at 1:55 PM, SoCalSkins said:


That’s a lie. Everyone knows the milkshake machine is always broken at McDonald’s! 

I thought it was the Frosty/Ice Cream machine. 

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On 3/2/2024 at 4:07 PM, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

FTR, this is the other side of what I was mentioning about the combine. I don't know how much this helps his draft capital in seven weeks, but Penix decided for himself that throwing was critical after his apparently ---- senior bowl, and he's changed the narrative substantially by taking advartage of it. Not sure how much it impacts things, but I can't help but wonder what might have happened for Jayden if he walked onto the field and a ran a crazy forty. Of course if he knew that wasn't gonna happen, makes sense to have skipped it, but if he thought he could do a crazy 40, he definitely should have won. Happy for Penix. 

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5 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

FTR, this is the other side of what I was mentioning about the combine. I don't know how much this helps his draft capital in seven weeks, but Penix decided for himself that throwing was critical after his apparently ---- senior bowl, and he's changed the narrative substantially by taking advartage of it. Not sure how much it impacts things, but I can't help but wonder what might have happened for Jayden if he walked onto the field and a ran a crazy forty. Of course if he knew that wasn't gonna happen, makes sense to have skipped it, but if he thought he could do a crazy 40, he definitely should have won. Happy for Penix. 

Given his current status, I don't see how running would have helped Jayden. That just feeds the narrative that he's more of an athlete than QB and people already know he's fast. Penix is fighting be the forth or fifth QB off the board, so he needed remind people that he can sling it with the best of them.  

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1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Well, well Mr. Keim hits often. All the draft rumors are taking a QB at 2...mostly Williams if he falls, otherwise Maye with an outside shot at Daniels. 

 

 

To me these tweets show that Drake has been and will be the pick at #2.  That's my take from Keim.  The first tweet was a repost by Keim.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Someone edited the picture to make Howell slightly bigger lol

 

What does that have to do with the original post? 

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I want to address the McCarthy arm strength thing. 

 

This is something interesting which can happen between the controlled environment of the combine/pro-day, and game situations/game tape.

 

On tape, in the 2 games I watched, one very closely (see post a few pages, ok maybe a lot of pages back) and one just sortof watching, I came away extremely unimpressed with his arm talent. 

 

He had really good zip on the ball in short throws, slip screens, throws from one hash to the next, things like that.

 

But on throws where he had to drive to the outside of the field, the ball hung in the air, and was almost always high.

 

However, in a controlled environment, his velocity was up.

 

And thus presents the problem for a GM: How do you reconcile the two of those things?  Do you say "well, we know he CAN do it, so we can coach him to do it" or do you say "We know he can do it, but he doesn't, and that's a huge problem."

 

I'm sure literally everybody has their own way of approaching it.  I think the tape is much more an indication of what a player will do than workouts.  Workouts are important.  But the games are more important.

 

In this case, McCarthy doesn't have good tape, specifically on throws to the outside where you have to get the ball to a spot quickly.  Also worth noting, the hash marks on in college are further out, so if he's throwing to the near side, it's actually closer than in the NFL.  

 

I was honestly a little surprised by the metrics from the combine.  But honestly it might raise more questions for me than it answers. 

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3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want to address the McCarthy arm strength thing. 

 

This is something interesting which can happen between the controlled environment of the combine/pro-day, and game situations/game tape.

 

On tape, in the 2 games I watched, one very closely (see post a few pages, ok maybe a lot of pages back) and one just sortof watching, I came away extremely unimpressed with his arm talent. 

 

He had really good zip on the ball in short throws, slip screens, throws from one hash to the next, things like that.

 

But on throws where he had to drive to the outside of the field, the ball hung in the air, and was almost always high.

 

However, in a controlled environment, his velocity was up.

 

And thus presents the problem for a GM: How do you reconcile the two of those things?  Do you say "well, we know he CAN do it, so we can coach him to do it" or do you say "We know he can do it, but he doesn't, and that's a huge problem."

 

I'm sure literally everybody has their own way of approaching it.  I think the tape is much more an indication of what a player will do than workouts.  Workouts are important.  But the games are more important.

 

In this case, McCarthy doesn't have good tape, specifically on throws to the outside where you have to get the ball to a spot quickly.  Also worth noting, the hash marks on in college are further out, so if he's throwing to the near side, it's actually closer than in the NFL.  

 

I was honestly a little surprised by the metrics from the combine.  But honestly it might raise more questions for me than it answers. 

 

My feeling is when in doubt, go with the tape. 

 

To me the Combine should be all about answering specific questions about players but a player shouldn't shoot up draft boards just because of a series of workouts. No way that one day doing feats of strength/athleticism should substitute for game tape.

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My curiosity has now been peaked, which is a crying shame and not a position I wanted to be in.  But I am now interested in taking a look at Daniels and Maye, at least a little bit, just so I can see how they compare.  But I'm only going to watch one game per QB.  It took about an hour to go through the Michigan vs. Alabama game play by play.  I have a job, a wife, 2 kids, 2 cats, and other responsibilities, so my time is limited.  And yes, it's the cats that need the most attention. I was led to believe the Michigan vs. Alabama game was going to be on the "good" side. It wasn't, but my intention was to watch a "good" game.

 

So, I don't follow college football.  I ask you all, what games from Maye and Daniels would be considered their best games.  And ones that have cutups like the one for McCarthy which just shows all the pass plays, that would be ideal.  If I can get a good consensus, I'll try and go through it this week at some point.  

 

NOTE: I'm not going to bother with Williams.  Until I hear there's a chance the Bears don't take him, I'm not considering him an option.  

 

 

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