The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Where's the precedent on that?

 

How often has a team drafted a QB in the first round with one they jus drafted still on the roster and that old one not pushed out to becoming a bust elsewhere?

 

I guarantee you Ron Rivera made his decisions based on his and his staff's evaluations of the tape and talking to coaches, not looking at precedents.

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The long term qb isn’t happening in 23. 

Nope. They have to go hard one way or the other IMO. Trade up for Young which isnt happening. Trading the farm for Lamar. Or blow it up to get Maye or Williams in 24. They cant continue to sit in the middle and think its going to change. 

[Warhead36]

Man though it does suck imagine if we did take Tua or Herbert in 2020. One of those two with these skill players and defense, we're talking about potentially competing for home field advantage through the playoffs right now. 

 

Hindsight is 20/20 obviously and of course I like many wanted Young. Just sucks to think about the alternate universe where this team is 9-2 or something right now with a franchise QB and dominant defense in place.

[HigSkin]

 

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I guarantee you Ron Rivera made his decisions based on his and his staff's evaluations of the tape and talking to coaches, not looking at precedents.

 

Oh, I agree...scary, isn't it...

[Kelvin Bryant]

RR on making Heinicke the starting QB:

 

Reporter: "What was it that Taylor has shown you to lead you to this decision?"

Rivera: "Winning."

[Idaho fan]

1 minute ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

RR on making Heinicke the starting QB:

 

Reporter: "What was it that Taylor has shown you to lead you to this decision?"

Rivera: "Winning."

It’s really kinda hard to argue with winning.  Keeping our 2nd round pick is nice too.   
 

if TH can just minimize the few boneheaded plays this team could make some (more) noise.  

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Idaho fan said:

 

if TH can just minimize the few boneheaded plays this team could make some (more) noise.  

If they can continue to dominate on defense and run the ball well

and dominate TOP, they can save the risky stuff for when they’re behind. Sometimes it’ll work sometimes it won’t 🤷‍♂️ 

[Dark Acre]

I *still* keep thinking about what it would have taken for Beatherd to get Miami's #27 pick in 1983 and keep our #28 (Darrell).  One of these days I'll resolve that and move on to Young/Herbert/Tua.

[MrJL]

 

46 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Nope. They have to go hard one way or the other IMO. Trade up for Young which isnt happening. Trading the farm for Lamar. Or blow it up to get Maye or Williams in 24. They cant continue to sit in the middle and think its going to change. 

 

maybe last draft will be the way going forward, with people not overdrafting

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

No loyalty, business only level up decision...got it...

Haskins had done nothing at that point to deserve loyalty to the point of passing up a better prospect.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

For some perspective, there were rumblings that Cooper Rush was going to keep the starting job in Dallas when he was on his streak.  
 

It’s incredibly rare to go away from a backup QB when the team is winning, even if their individual performances aren’t hot.  There is a short list of QB’s that can’t lose their job to injury and Wentz isn’t on that list.  And on the other side, Taylor Heinicke is simply not good enough for a head coach to proclaim he’s a starter the rest of the way. 
 

 

 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

So, it appears as if we won’t have a QB with 20+ pass touchdowns this season. Heck, I don’t think we’ll even have a QB this year that passes 10 TDs…..

 

that’s depressing. I remember week 1 when we were all saying “as a joke mainly) that wentz is on pace for 50+. 

 

I think Kirk was our last QB to get more than 20  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

So, it appears as if we won’t have a QB with 20+ pass touchdowns this season. Heck, I don’t think we’ll even have a QB this year that passes 10 TDs…..

 

that’s depressing. I remember week 1 when we were all saying “as a joke mainly) that wentz is on pace for 50+. 

 

I think Kirk was our last QB to get more than 20  

Umm, Wentz has 10.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Umm, Wentz has 10.

Yeah. I said PASSES 10. I doubt wentz sees the field the rest of the way, so it would be hard to pass 10 if he’s not on the field 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

The long term qb isn’t happening in 23. 

Nonsense. The draft is full of QBs. And it’s more important you put them in a solid situation with great receivers, running backs, and a top 5 defense, than it is what the draft pick # is. 
 

we’re in a great spot to throw a mid round pick in the first second round at a guy if we like him and see what happens. 

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Can someone please explain explicitly how the team "playing harder for Heinicke" (or however you want to phrase it) translates into on field success? Does his moxie make B Robs legs move faster? Does it make receivers run better routes? Does it make our pass rushers have better moves? Does it inspire Scott Turner to new heights of offensive creativity?

What I'm seeing is the thing that makes Heinicke different from Allen, Haskins, Wentz and just about every other QB since Cousins. 

 

It's his ability to keep drives alive. Look at the numbers. Nobody on offense had great games. But what was Smith doing in 2018? He was moving the ball just enough so that the drives would get to the opponents 35 before stalling. That meant that we were in FG range and could get points. That's what Heinicke is doing more of. 

 

What I get frustrated with Al Galdi about is the whole passing game is supreme thing and his ypa analytics. That's just an average and guys like Wentz throw it deep to skew the analytic. But what's important is how is the offense doing drive to drive. I expect some three and outs and some turnovers, but can they move the ball?

 

With a lot of our QBs at move the ball too the 40-40 area which is no man's land because you can't kick a FG, punts will probably be a touchback and going for it on 4th down is risky. So it's best if you can get that extra 10-20 yards before the drive stalls. And that's what we've been doing with Heinicke and Smith before that. Sometimes it's a key throw or scramble or run. Sometimes it's avoiding a sack of penalty that would kill a drive. Sometimes it's getting 7 on third and 10 but putting us in FG range. 

 

For the last two weeks we've had two minute drives at the end of the half. Why not earlier in the year? Could Wentz not do it? Was it the sacks? I don't know. But those drives help a lot.

[zCommander]

Let's see what Terry has to say about infectiousism that doesn't show up on stats

 

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Can someone please explain explicitly how the team "playing harder for Heinicke" (or however you want to phrase it) translates into on field success? Does his moxie make B Robs legs move faster? Does it make receivers run better routes? Does it make our pass rushers have better moves? Does it inspire Scott Turner to new heights of offensive creativity?

 

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I guess my issue is that just sounds too ephemeral and impossible to prove or disprove. I think most of the guys on the team were already trying hard and cared, but there were other things that just weren't clicking.

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think we should immediately conflate players cheering on and being supportive of their starting QB with them wanting him over someone else. Could it be? Sure, possibly. But good teammates are going to rally around their guys and speak highly of them, regardless (unless the guy in question is just a complete asshole, in which case they'll most likely just be quiet about it, but obviously TH doesn't fit into that category)

 

 

[tshile]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Can someone please explain explicitly how the team "playing harder for Heinicke" (or however you want to phrase it) translates into on field success? Does his moxie make B Robs legs move faster? Does it make receivers run better routes? Does it make our pass rushers have better moves? Does it inspire Scott Turner to new heights of offensive creativity?

This is just what I think. 
 

I think guys line up and have more belief in what they’re doing and that it will work. And they play harder, yes. 
 

i think Terry likes him because he knows that ball may come even in tripple coverage. He knows any play he may get a chance to go up and grab it - and he clearly likes that, dudes got an swag about it. So yeah I don’t think he quits on routes or anything.
 

I think the offensive line plays better/harder when they know the qb will move around the pocket and keep the play alive. They know if they get beat and slide the guy TH will slide into the open area and keep it all alive. 
 

yeah I think there’s a huge difference when all 10 truly believe that the 1 dude gives everything a chance.
 

At any level of any sport that collective confidence makes a big difference

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

You dismissed the post about Wentz's stats last season by saying that he was actually worse than his stat line showed. I'm trying to figure out if you apply that universally or if it's selective. It seems like many people are basically ignoring Heinicke's stats and saying he's better than his poor stat line because the team happens to be winning.

 

Taylor had better completion % last year than Wentz but Wentz had more wins. So this year Taylor stats not that high but has more wins. Furthermore, I will take the wins no matter how ugly right now. Will that work in a playoff game? Let's get to the playoff game first and then will discuss further. We all can cross that bridge when we get to it. 

[tshile]

TH got me 5 points last week and 7 this week. 
 

I’m keenly aware of how bad his stats are 😂 

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

TH got me 5 points last week and 7 this week. 
 

I’m keenly aware of how bad his stats are 😂 

Jeez, are you TRYING to lose?? 

[Warhead36]

I don't think guys are playing harder with Heinicke. That's kind of insulting and disrespectful to what I feel is a pretty damn good locker room.

 

I think Heinicke's ability to keep a play or two alive to extend drives is huge. Even if its just one sack or negative play that turns into a neutral or positive play, that can be the difference between a drive ending in 0 points or 3 points(or even 6+). And that can be the difference between a win and a loss. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

It's his ability to keep drives alive.

They weee 3-13 on third down and TH was 2 for 9 passing on 3rd down and one of those 2 completions didn’t result in a 1st down.

 

He doesn’t have the ability to keep drives alive.  When they convert a high percentage of 3rd downs it’s because they run a lot in third and short.  
 

You’re confusing correlation with causation. 
 

The offense is looking more success because they run the ball more than pass, and they are playing good defense. 
 

TH makes a few plays a game.  He made several last week.  
 

Bur let’s not confuse what’s driving the success to who’s benefiting from the success. 
 

And again, with the team winning, you don’t make a change.  But that doesn’t change anything about TH. 

[tshile]

Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Jeez, are you TRYING to lose?? 

It’s a start 2 qb’s league. I drafted Brady and Ryan. I’m scraping the bottom for anything