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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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PolarExpress

PolarExpress

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But there’s plenty of tape to support that Turner has provided more than enough opportunity to TH and he just simply doesn’t/can’t hit to capitalize.

 

That doesn’t mean everything Turner calls is great or that he can’t stall a drive in his own right.  But just look at the majority of passes Heinicke does complete, wide open first reads that you or I could hit.  Then look at the wide open looks he’s not seeing, patting the ball and eating a sack or making an errant throw because he’s late and the pressure gets there.  It happens a lot every week.

 

You are asking a lot of an OC to consistently find a way to win with a weak armed, short, inaccurate QB.

Who stopped going with BRob?

7 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But there’s plenty of tape to support that Turner has provided more than enough opportunity to TH and he just simply doesn’t/can’t hit to capitalize.

 

That doesn’t mean everything Turner calls is great or that he can’t stall a drive in his own right.  But just look at the majority of passes Heinicke does complete, wide open first reads that you or I could hit.  Then look at the wide open looks he’s not seeing, patting the ball and eating a sack or making an errant throw because he’s late and the pressure gets there.  It happens a lot every week.

 

You are asking a lot of an OC to consistently find a way to win with a weak armed, short, inaccurate QB.

While Heine made mistakes, or showed his lack of talent, Turner should have run BRob down their throats.  And our D was just completely off.  Lots of blame to go around.  

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PolarExpress

PolarExpress

Posted
Posted

I would be thrilled to see Howell, but I understand he’s not ready.  But how long does it take to get ready?   I don’t think TH or Wentz gets us in the playoffs.  The D has been awesome.  They had a bad night because they were on the field too long.  I want solid upgrades next season, not shiny stars, because we have a great RB and 2 awesome receivers, and they deserve a solid team.  

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I hear you SIP, especially on that last point.  It’s a line I’ve struggled with for sure - defending certain aspects, while trying to make it clear I’m not in the tank for the guy.  I’ve done it for other players and coaches too, it’s just my nature to look for extenuating circumstances and withholding judgement accordingly.  With this team, it seems to rarely pay off though, lol.  Del Rio and Jamin Davis are the only two recent ones I can come up with.

 

 

I wasn't thinking of you with my post about some that push Taylor.  I was just pushing back on the idea that the typical person who some here have deemed to be persistently pro Heinicke are simply people who agree that he's bad but hes simply not as bad as his critics say he is.  There has been much more positivity about Heinicke from that crowd but I notice they tend to back off at times when cornered and that's unusual from past QB debates that I recall.  

 

I'll say this if they beat SF, the group of people who push Heinicke will come out strongly out of their shell and say see, told you so........😀

 

I got no problem with it though, opinon is opinion.  But I was just stating that I agree with @mistertim post from the other day that there is a passive aggressive group that push this QB and their takes zig and zag a lot depending on the current mood.  

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, BigDibbs31 said:

I know little to nothing about setting protections but is it on the QB to tell the LT to block an elite edge rusher who is obviously rushing? To me, it is mostly obvious who needs to block who and when they look to be sending 5 or more guys then the C/QB ensures everyone is covered. 

 

Logan Paulsen, Chris Cooley, Jay Gruden didn't reference protections issue based on a single play. Tthe comments were (especially from Paulsen) that this team's O lineman protections was set based on the first alignment they saw from the defense.  The Giants defensive coordinator, Martindale seemed to have a beat on the tendency that this O line wasn't hot at readjusting their protections to last second shifts from defensive fronts.  So what the Giants did is get them locked into a certain protection and shifted their defenders around to more or less to exploit said protection and the offense didn't adjust back.  And yes Paulsen put that some on Taylor by saying a more experienced QB could have helped solve that problem. 

 

Paulsen got into it in detail.  Later Jay commented on it.  And ditto Cooley.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, PolarExpress said:
7 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

While Heine made mistakes, or showed his lack of talent, Turner should have run BRob down their throats.  And our D was just completely off.  Lots of blame to go around.  

I’m not talking about any one game, nor am I saying the OC doesn’t make mistakes or a lineman doesn’t miss a block or whatever else.  What I’m saying is that by every possible metric, Heinicke isn’t very good and that’s why our offense stinks.

 

25 minutes ago, PolarExpress said:

 

While I fully acknowledge Heineke’s weaknesses, I cannot ignore how much the team has improved since he replaced Wentz.  I realize it’s not all on him, but he didn’t screw it up either.  Calling him names and referring to him as Tiny is just uncalled for.  He did enough to get us where we are, while Young can’t decide if he can play yet, although he has been medically released.  I know which of the two players I admire most…on a human level.

 

I’ve long suspected the primary reason folks ride for Taylor so hard is exactly what you said at the end there.  The human element, not the football element.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, MrJL said:

I have no interest in spending the resources it would take to significantly upgrade from Heinicke till we're completely sure the guy we're getting is better.  That means an average size contract for a free agent or a draft pick that doesn't require tanking or selling the farm to get

 

that is why I want Heinicke over anyone else

Heinicke is dreadful. 
 

That’s why I want anybody over Heinicke. 

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, PolarExpress said:

We are all human.  I want players that are committed to their fans and teammates. 
Whose fault was our crappy record with Wentz?
I recognize Heineke’s weaknesses, but you can’t blame just him when you (general you) don’t blame Wentz.  
We need a good, quality QB, the release of Turner, not to mention a stronger OL.  I’m not saying Heineke isn’t at fault, but he’s not the only weak link.  It just gets tiresome. I detest being called a Hiver because I have my own opinion.  I’ve seen Heineke play in person. I wouldn’t call him Tiny, but he lacks arm strength.  But he’s out there playing for pennies in the NFL.
Also, can Turner game plan for Howell?  I’d love to see him just hand it off to BRob with a few good throws to our receivers.

But this has been one of the more enjoyable seasons I’ve watched in years, except for RG3’s first year, and I enjoyed Gibbs, The Hogs, The Smurfs, and The Glory Years of Super Bowls. I guess I see some progress.

Again, though, Heinicke got the lions share of the credit when the team won. So, which is it? Does he get the credit for that? If so, he also takes the blame. 
 

And yes, your answer is a double edge sword. If you say Heinicke doesn’t deserve the credit for the turn around people will tell you it’s because he’s not very good. If you say he does, people will ask why he couldn’t beat the Giants twice in a row if he’s that good.

 

There is a simple answer: Heinicke’s weaknesses refocused Turner’s gameplan and BRob returning to health reinforced it. And that is why the team went on a win streak. 
 

But Heinicke folks want him to have the credit for that with none of the blame for the poor offensive performances. It’s really a sight to behold. I’m not sure I’d believe these convos were happening if I wasn’t reading them daily.

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BigDibbs31

BigDibbs31

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Logan Paulsen, Chris Cooley, Jay Gruden didn't reference protections issue based on a single play. Tthe comments were (especially from Paulsen) that this team's O lineman protections was set based on the first alignment they saw from the defense.  The Giants defensive coordinator, Martindale seemed to have a beat on the tendency that this O line wasn't hot at readjusting their protections to last second shifts from defensive fronts.  So what the Giants did is get them locked into a certain protection and shifted their defenders around to more or less to exploit said protection and the offense didn't adjust back.  And yes Paulsen put that some on Taylor by saying a more experienced QB could have helped solve that problem. 

 

Paulsen got into it in detail.  Later Jay commented on it.  And ditto Cooley.

Thanks, that makes sense. Saturday night should be fun........

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MrJL

MrJL

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So he gets full credit for the record, then?

 

nope, but the others have had the same or similar supporting casts and not duplicated it, so he gets some and then when you combine that and his cost, he's my preferred choice

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MrJL said:

 

nope, but the others have had the same or similar supporting casts and not duplicated it, so he gets some and then when you combine that and his cost, he's my preferred choice

The same supporting cast as who? Not Wentz. Can’t compare him To Fitz. What’s your barometer? 
 

I just don’t understand this phenomenon.

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FLSkinz83

FLSkinz83

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But Heinicke folks want him to have the credit for that with none of the blame for the poor offensive performances. It’s really a sight to behold. I’m not sure I’d believe these convos were happening if I wasn’t reading them daily.

 

He hasn't been the primary reason for any of the wins or losses.   I can make the case for the Colts as majority credit for the win and the Vikings game for the loss.

But on the whole, he hasn't been the main factor in any game.  IMO.  

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BigDibbs31

BigDibbs31

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

His winning percentage is irrelevant.  The team wins because of defense, running the ball, and McLaurin saving his ass on stupid bad throws. 
 

He’s dreadful. 

Jesus dude you sound fun. At least try to enjoy one of our better seasons in 30 years. As sad as that sounds

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BigDibbs31

BigDibbs31

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m a veritable bundle of laughs.

 

@Jumbo can vouch for me. 

Try to enjoy one of the few seasons in the last 30 years where we can potentially make the playoffs. Neither TH or CW is the answer long term. Low percentage that SH is the answer. Let's see what happens in the offseason. No reason to **** on TH every chance you get. He is extremely limited but is the QB for one of the better 8-9 game stretches this franchise has had in 30+ years (obviously TH is a small reason for this success). Let's trust RR and the coaching staff that TH is the current best chance for success and I'm sure they will hand it back to Wentz at the first sign of trouble this weekend. The franchise has a lot to consider moving forward to improve the QB, OL, LB, TE, and CB situations.

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FootballZombie

FootballZombie

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, BigDibbs31 said:

Try to enjoy one of the few seasons in the last 30 years where we can potentially make the playoffs

 

Or... We can complain about the QB that is setting reverse records right here in the QB thread. Seems like a great place to do so.

 

Man is out here achieving levels of suck I have never witnessed before and each week we get some new abhorrent metric or factoid to further quantify just how much suck is on display.

Any more suck-age and we will have a black hole on our hands.

 

 

If your setting low marks over a span dating back to the year 2000...

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