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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

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Renegade7

Renegade7

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14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Its hard to rebuild an entire OL in one off season. Plus we need more depth at CB including a real #1, and a quality starting TE.

 

Oh and yeah. A freaking QB.

 

Priorities then.

 

Honestly, I'm not buying the need for a true #1 corner anymore.  I like St-Juste enough that between him and Fuller depth is more important, imo.

 

Shutdown corners are more rare then the litany of WRs that can torch teams on any given Sunday now, NFL has won regarding its preference to passing offense.  In 2000, every pass defense allowed less then 3100 yards in a season, in 2020, only two defenses did that (us being one of them).

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/passing/2021/reg/all

 

Anyone can correct me on this, but if I'm reading this right the #1, #2, and #3 ranked corners this year are playing on the 7th, 4th, and 13th ranked pass defense respectfully (without a true #1 corner, Commies are already 8th).

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/stat/passing

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/cb

 

Reason why I'm dumping this in a QB thread is similar to what I'm going to say about TE, we only have so much resources cap wise and have to expect every dime we get back from cutting Wentz to go to his replacement if he's actually better. 

 

That's just the nature of the QB market and getting worse. 

 

TE isn't a strength, but I don't want a situation where we have to pick who to keep on offense at risk of losing one of our recievers, BRob, or Gibson.  If we want to keep the dline and safety combo together, some positions are jus gonna have to be weaker then others.

 

Is what it is, priorities, QB having to be #1 right now.  

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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6 hours ago, BigDibbs31 said:

Try to enjoy one of the few seasons in the last 30 years where we can potentially make the playoffs. Neither TH or CW is the answer long term.

I think we all desire to watch this team drag TH into the playoffs.  We are way past the point of playing for draft position.  I believe VoR as well as myself and many others would prefer to win and make the playoffs no matter how ugly it might be.  There isn’t much worse than the blue balls of winning too many games to draft high but not enough to make the playoffs.

 

But it will have to be just that, the rest of the team dragging TH into the playoffs.  

 

 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Priorities then.

 

Honestly, I'm not buying the need for a true #1 corner anymore.  I like St-Juste enough that between him and Fuller depth is more important, imo.

 

Reason why I'm dumping this in a QB thread is similar to what I'm going to say about TE, we only have so much resources cap wise and have to expect every dime we get back from cutting Wentz to go to his replacement if he's actually better. 

 

That's just the nature of the QB market and getting worse. 

 

TE isn't a strength, but I don't want a situation where we have to pick who to keep on offense at risk of losing one of our recievers, BRob, or Gibson.  If we want to keep the dline and safety combo together, some positions are jus gonna have to be weaker then others.

 

Is what it is, priorities, QB having to be #1 right now.  

 

I am. far from pollayana about this roster typically.  I am the same dude who trashed the Alex Smith trade at the time because I didn't think addong a decent QB to the roster at hand would amount to much -- too many holes where an slightly above average QB wouldn't make that much of a dent.  But to the credit of the move they did go 6-4, which was decent but it wasn't a team built to deal with a high powered team as was evidenced that year.  

 

Now, I can't recall being this high on the roster since the Gibbs 2 years and I think I like this roster better than that era. 

 

Some are cynical that this roster is good and or it can be fixed in an off season -- they have a right to that opinion.  But to me it feels actually oddly similar to the take from some on the FO thread months back who thought me and some others were nuts about the chances of Dan ever selling.  As I was saying on that thread, I get their pessimism.  Pessimism is a winning bet with this franchise and betting on the "usual circumstances" being our reality and saying those who see it otherwise are naive is typically the winning bet.  But it doesn't have to be.  Things can change.

 

I am not saying those who think the roster is "meh" are wrong.  It's an opinion and everyone's take is valid.   And lol, @Zim489 if you want me to call you out on this, fine.  I'll do it. I talked in generalities on this point before and you thought that post was cloaked as being directed just at you.  It wasn't.  And neither is this one but I am not shy to say your name if you want me to. 

 

But I am not thinking of you and not looking for a debate on it.  Also, you are at the fringe of this debate anyway, you want to blow it all up.  So not enough common ground for me and you to discuss it.  And I get the mindset you got, I used to have it rhyme and verse but not anymore -- not with this roster.  I am just using @Renegade7post to launch why I am hardcore on this point because I recall he agrees with most of the optimism about the roster. 

 

In short, IMO we can actually really be escaping the dungeon on this big time where the franchise turns a corner.  Not to jinx it but I think Dan is going to sell.  And yes I think this team is on the verge of being a perennial playoff team in the mode of the Titans not the Chiefs.   

 

I get riding that the default poisiton is its same old, same old.  But to me it isn't.  This defense is borderline elite.  I think we just need depth at LB and CB.  St. Juste ie emerging.  And strangely so is Danny Johnson.  Safeties are good.  Jamin Davis is now good.  The D line is becoming what we hoped it would be years back and that's without Chase contributing.  The weapons on offense are the best I can recall.  Dotson IMO has star potential.  I forgot whom but one national football observer was hyping this teams weapons as some of the best in the league.   Gibson and Robinson are one of the best RB duos.

 

They are winning with arguably the worst QB in the league and "meh" O line play.  The thing about the O line is no team has studs at every spot.   I like the depth of the O line -- Schweitzer, Lucas, Larsen.  IMO they need to release Rouillier, get the cap benefit from it.   Sign a FA.  Draft a couple of O lineman.  Hopefully their hype about Paul bears out.  I like Cosmi.  I can live with one of the other O lineman if need be Leno or Turner but not both.  Turner has played better now that he's healthy.

 

I don't buy that the team has gone from Masko is a genius who has a good O line no matter who is playing (ala his first two years) to now its hopeless situation where the insinuation is that Masko is now just a guy as a coach.  I think its a bit dramatic.  Also Taylor isn't the only QB in the league with some wiggle in the pocket.  You can find a more mobile QB than him.  A mobile QB who actually runs can freeze a D line's pass rush, we don't have that.  And we can get it.

 

But yeah i don't think its some wild dream that Masko can coach up Paul and lets say 2-3 new O lineman.  And we can find an upgrade over Heinicke.  It's not like we are now 2-15 and uncompetitive in games right now with these weakneses.   I get the pessimism if its all belak this season and we are getting blown out by teams and aren't compeititve. That's clearly not the case.  It's almost Christmas and we are still in the hunt with these supposed fatal weaknesses.  I think we can come out of the next off season with a team that's a force.    

   

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think we all desire to watch this team drag TH into the playoffs.  We are way past the point of playing for draft position.  I believe VoR as well as myself and many others would prefer to win and make the playoffs no matter how ugly it might be.  There isn’t much worse than the blue balls of winning too many games to draft high but not enough to make the playoffs.

 

But it will have to be just that, the rest of the team dragging TH into the playoffs.  

 

 

 

For me with Heinicke right now its simple.

 

They were in position where basically all they had to do is win one game, just one, against a reeling and less talented Giants team and we'd be in one of the best positions to get in the playoffs in Dan's full sad era of football.

 

And they didn't do it.  People talk about the 2016 season choke job in the last game against the Giants -- but this to me is way worse.  In 2016, it was just one game, people said well the Giants weren't playing for anything, maybe so, but they went full blast and played their starters for most of that game.  And the bad performance reeked thoughout the team that day. 

 

This was two games.  This team is more talented than the Giants.  The Giants haven't won in over a month.  And the defense did their part.  The running backs did their part.  Heinicke was somewhere from meh to sucked in both games.   He didn’t rise to the occasion

with everything on the line.   So the narrative that he's a gamer to me is out the window for now. 

 

Yes if they bounce back and make the playoffs, I'll go back to hey Heinicke isn't good but he's clutch.  But unless that happens, the clutch stuff is out the window for me with Heinicke, he's just a bad QB and isn't clutch either in my book if they miss the playoffs.

 

You can't be clutch when you can't beat a bad team -- not just once but twice with the playoffs on the line.  That's the definition of unclutch.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Listening to Keim's last podcast.  I could post this on the SF game but it might belong better here because of one of his key points.

 

He thinks tough match up.  Predicting they lose by 2 touchdowns.

 

A.  SF is great at stopping the run.  So the difference with the Philly game is Philly's struggles were stopping the run -- so they could major in what they do well against Philly but that likely won't work against SF.

 

B.  He feels there is some hangover in that locker room from the Giants game.  Senses they might be a bit deflated.  Had a big opportunity and they didn't do it. 

 

C.  Chase Young brings some energy and enthusiasm to the field so that might help. 

 

D.  He thinks Heinicke gets benched if they struggle to move the ball or convert points in the red zone.  He thinks if he has a bad half, they give him one more drive in the 2nd half and if that doesn't go well he thinks we will see Wentz.  

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

B.  He feels there is some hangover in that locker room from the Giants game.  Senses they might be a bit deflated.  Had a big opportunity and they didn't do it. 

This is a far cry from our QB being a galvanizing force to rally behind and everybody being “pissed off and ready” for the 49ers.

 

It would suck to get all this way and have a meltdown game on Xmas eve against a Purdy-led and Deeboless 49er squad that has already clinched.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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26 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is a far cry from our QB being a galvanizing force to rally behind and everybody being “pissed off and ready” for the 49ers.

 

It would suck to get all this way and have a meltdown game on Xmas eve against a Purdy-led and Deeboless 49er squad that has already clinched.

 

I know, yep.  I am rooting for the Heinicke "magic" to do something unexpected.   And I am certainly not ruling out that it happens. 

 

I usually calm down from a loss as the week progressed but for whatever reason I am more pissed anout this one the more I digest it.

 

If they don't make the playoffs, that Giants 2 game series to me is as big of a choke job with high stakes we've had here under Dan.  They were favorties in both games yet didn't win either and could have easily lost the first game.  We will be hearing about that series for years if they don't make the playoffs. 

 

Some people swing at Kirk for being a choke artist.  The response to that is hey the dude has had a ton of comeback games, actually among the most in the NFL -- and then the counter response by Kirk's critics to that is but hey it wasn't in the high stakes game, its Kirk does it against lower opponents in games that aren't do or die.  Kirk has actually come back in some high stakes games but agree that its not something he majors in.  

 

But, lets play with that same logic.  OK Heinicke can come back in a game against a bad team like the Colts when at the time it wasn't high stakes.  Against the Vikings ironically gets outdueled with the game on the line versus who some here think is a choke artist, Kirk.  And performs poorly twice in mega important games with playoff implications against the Giants.

 

If Heinicke doesn't pull a rabbit out of hat here in the end -- no freaking way I am I signing off on he might not be good but he's clutch.  If he is deemed clutch than its the same version of clutch that Kirk critics mock him for. 

 

The Eagles win was great but that was in they got nothing to lose element to that game.  No one thought they can win or make the playoffs then.  And he didn't major in that win, he minored, it was the running game.  But I'll give him that.  But that was not a high stakes with everything on the line type of game.

 

For a dude who is supposedly mr clutch, he just played meh to poorly in two of the most high stakes games I can recall this team having in a long time.   If Kirk did that, there would be 15 pages of diatribes about the dude. 

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I actually think our D will keep the game fairly close. Its gonna be like 10-3 going into the 4th quarter and then they'll fade and Heinicke will probably throw a pick 6 and we'll lose something like 24-10.

 

lol, 24-10 was Keim's prediction exactly.  Am thinking 30-14.   I don't think the defense folds but I think turnovers set up two scores for the 9ers.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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4 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

I just don't see how we have much of a chance tomorrow against this defense. Bosa is going to a nightmare for this OL. 

 

It's a perfect storm in theory at least.  This o line and offense in general is best at running the ball.  No team is better at stopping the run than SF.

 

As Keim said most teams ultimately abandon the run against SF over time when they see they can't move the ball on the ground so they have to let it fly with the passing game.  That's a nightmare for this offense.

 

The main thing i am hanging my hat on is sometimes ridiculous lopsided looking matchups surprise you and go the other way ala the Texans-Chiefs game.  Chiefs won but that one was a batlle.  Any given Sunday. 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I actually think our D will keep the game fairly close. Its gonna be like 10-3 going into the 4th quarter and then they'll fade and Heinicke will probably throw a pick 6 and we'll lose something like 24-10.

My gut says this.

 

There is a very small part of me, that I absolutely know better than to believe in, that thinks we could get some Christmas miracle Heinicke moxie magic behind a defense that will force Purdy into a bunch of sacks and picks.  But really that’s just hope, and this where hope goes to die.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My gut says this.

 

There is a very small part of me, that I absolutely know better than to believe in, that thinks we could get some Christmas miracle Heinicke moxie magic behind a defense that will force Purdy into a bunch of sacks and picks.  But really that’s just hope, and this where hope goes to die.

 

I think they got no shot agaiinst SF.  I think the beat the Browns.  And the last week is do or die versus Dallas.

 

Feels like 2016 season round 2 where they play a division rival who likely plays with nothing at stake but they enjoy knocking this team out of the playoffs anyway. 

 

I think the Lions and Seattle lose a game so that leaves that last week as the deciding game.  I bet they flex it to Sunday Night.  And my gut is the Cowboys defense suffocates Heinicke and the offense and we lose lets say 20-10.

 

Heinicke, judging by his rhetoric last season seems intimidated by the Cowboys defense.   I don't think I've ever seen a Washington player so effusive about another unit on another team, Heinicke's gushing about Dallas' defense gives the vibe to say that he sees them on the Bears 85 elite level.    I was a bit annoyed as I recall @Koolblue13 was last season reading his comments about the Cowboys -- you'd think he was saying we were Apollo going against Drago in Rocky 4 where we had no chance.

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Heinicke, judging by his rhetoric last season seems intimidated by the Cowboys defense.   I don't think I've ever seen a Washington player so effusive about another unit on another team, Heinicke's gushing about Dallas defense gives the vibe to say that he seems them on the Bears 85 level elite. 

I recall that, but also saw right through it as making it more about how good they were to deflect from how bad he was.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I recall that, but also saw right through it as making it more about how good they were to deflect from how bad he was.

 

He had two rounds of complements if i recall this was one -- but yeah you are right it sounds like he's saying yeah i sucked but who doesn't suck against the Cowboys?

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/washington-taylor-heinicke-praises-dallas-cowboys-beat-out-ass-trevon-diggs#:~:text=Washington quarterback Taylor Heinicke praised,"beat our ass twice."&text=It's never fun to compliment,comes to a divisional rival.

 

"You guys (have) seen it, that (Dallas) defense isn't just doing it to us, they're doing it to almost every team they play," Heinicke said.

To say Heinicke and his offense struggled against Dallas' defense would be an understatement. In his last two starts, both against the Cowboys, Washington was outscored 83-34. Overall, Heinicke completed just 18 of 47 attempted passes

 

..."I mean those guys get after it up front," Heinicke said. "They have a really good defensive line, probably the best in the league. They got some DBs that make plays, I mean (Trevon) Diggs has what, 12 picks this year? It's just a really good defense, and when you play a team like that and you get down quick and you've got to throw the ball to get back in the game it's tough, those guys want to pin their ears back and get after you. And they have a really good offense as well. They have a really good team. They beat our ass twice

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MrJL

MrJL

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5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Priorities then.

 

Honestly, I'm not buying the need for a true #1 corner anymore.  I like St-Juste enough that between him and Fuller depth is more important, imo.

 

Shutdown corners are more rare then the litany of WRs that can torch teams on any given Sunday now, NFL has won regarding its preference to passing offense.  In 2000, every pass defense allowed less then 3100 yards in a season, in 2020, only two defenses did that (us being one of them).

 

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/passing/2021/reg/all

 

Anyone can correct me on this, but if I'm reading this right the #1, #2, and #3 ranked corners this year are playing on the 7th, 4th, and 13th ranked pass defense respectfully (without a true #1 corner, Commies are already 8th).

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/s RD, TE ctats/team/_/view/defense/stat/passing

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/cb

 

Reason why I'm dumping this in a QB thread is similar to what I'm going to say about TE, we only have so much resources cap wise and have to expect every dime we get back from cutting Wentz to go to his replacement if he's actually better. 

 

That's just the nature of the QB market and getting worse. 

 

TE isn't a strength, but I don't want a situation where we have to pick who to keep on offense at risk of losing one of our recievers, BRob, or Gibson.  If we want to keep the dline and safety combo together, some positions are jus gonna have to be weaker then others.

 

Is what it is, priorities, QB having to be #1 right now.  

.

St. Juste and Fuller are definitely good enough and most of the depth is playing well.  When your offense has three startign WRs like ours, Robinson, Gibson and possibly still McKissic at RB, TE can be the fifth or sixth most important guy.  I'm fine with what we've got and maybe even releasing Thomas.

 

OL. we probably only need a couple guys

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Renegade7

Renegade7

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24 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

2 years left on deal and will be turning 30. They need a CB

 

What kinda corner?

 

You expecting a major drop-off before 32?

 

St-Juste I trust to be a fine #1, draft one, don't remake the mistake of signing Jackson for a lot of money and stunting development of people we draft.  Corners are expensive, especially good ones.

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