The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Agree and I fully understand its long standing NFL traditional that only 1 QB can ever be groomed at time.... yeah maybe ignoring the best QBs we had in recent memory were drafted in the same year, one for spite.

 

I just hate that same tradition just can't seem to develop QBs with any sort of regularity.  The NFL burns through young QBs which allows the meh old ones to stick around forever.  As a compromise I'd propose NFL teams have 3 QBs until they find a franchise guy. One "cant miss" young QB undisputed starter handed the job no competition, the token mandated "vet" backup for when the starter chokes, and then the 3rd QB a late round developmental QB as a dart throw. Like Howell. Yep it eats a roster spot but IIRC rosters are more expanded than ever.

I don’t think it’s that hard to figure out personally. The draft value we got out of trading Howell outpaced his value on our roster, in the eyes of our decision makers. His career will likely bear that out, but with young players you obviously can never be sure. He was already going into the 3rd year of his rookie contract. It was time to **** or get off the pot, and a totally new staff bringing in their own guy was a good excuse to salvage some value out of him. More than most expected to be able to get, btw. Not every player can be developed into a good starter. There’s nothing to lament here, and it’s weird to still be stuck on it with a new QB on the way. We will eventually acquire another young developmental QB to have as a backup or 3rd stringer. The way the timeline and trade value worked out, it wasn’t necessary for that to be Howell. 

[HTTRDynasty]

"Make throws off schedule and on the run".  Is this a joke?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

The idea that they'd take McCarthy because he reminds some of Purdy and hence Peters-SF, etc, seems to be the favorite narrative of those few who are predicing McCarthy to go here.

 

He's my third favorite among Maye and Daniels.  But among those three, he's my favorite personality.  He comes off really smart and articulate and at least on youtube the more impressive interview by a decent margin over Maye and Daniels.  He'd be my favorite also in the context of highest floor.  I think there is more bust in Maye and Daniels than McCarthy.  Also my fav among the three as making off platform throws.

 

But i want to swing for the fences.  Maye and to some extent Daniels too feels like a swing for the fences move.  McCarthy feels like swinging for a double.  

 

 

Edited April 3 by Skinsinparadise

[CommanderInTheRye]

15 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

 

 

Ahhh, the triumphant return of Jason LaConfora, the "finest" sports reporter to (dis)grace the pages of the venerable Washington Post...

 

From the article fwiw...

 

 

 

J.J. McCarthy, Washington Commanders, No. 2 overall

Return to menu

Sometimes the betting markets reveal impeding reality, and I am inclined to believe there is merit to the Michigan QB’s rising odds to go second overall. McCarthy being a top-five pick shouldn’t come as a shock if you’ve been reading along — even with his opportunities limited by Michigan riding its running game — and his maturity, coachability and overall quality are shining through in the staged environment of scripted spring showcases.

 

When I asked the second evaluator for comparisons for the top four QBs, he said this about McCarthy: “Looks like another [Brock] Purdy to me.” Commanders GM Adam Peters was part of the brain trust that took Purdy in San Francisco, although that was in the final round.

[zCommander]

22 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I don't know who Adam Rank is but his takes certainly are.

 

For a guy who has been an NFL analyst and writer since 1995 makes no sense. I wonder who many joints he smokes in one day lol

[DogofWar1]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

"Make throws off schedule and on the run".  Is this a joke?

 

 

 

Saw that tweet yesterday and had the same reaction.

 

Like uhhhh are you sure Mr. "Throws only 20% of the time when forced off the spot" has throwing off schedule as a strength?  Are you sure sure?

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The idea that they'd take McCarthy because he reminds some of Purdy and hence Peters-SF, etc, seems to be the favorite narrative of those few who are predicing McCarthy to go here.

 

He's my third favorite among Maye and Daniels.  But among those three, he's my favorite personality.  He comes off really smart and articulate and at least on youtube the more impressive interview by a decent margin over Maye and Daniels.  He's be my favorite also in the context of highest floor.  I think there is more bust in Maye and Daniels than McCarthy.  Also my fav among the three as making off platform throws.

 

But i want to swing for the fences.  Maye and to some extent Daniels too feels like a swing for the fences move.  McCarthy feels like swinging for a double.  

 

 

Good points SIP, I agree - highest floor IMO too, less chance to bust.

 

Swing for the fences, I think that’s the main discussion point. Projecting where JJ could get to is more of an unknown. What really is his ceiling? I think you can gauge that better with the others. It might be that in reality he has a comparative ceiling, and highest floor….but which, if any, GM and FO is going to assess it that way…

 

That’s very difficult to predict, from our view point. 
 

That said, JJ at #2 doesn’t really sit right does it
 

[Warhead36]

Taking JJ 2nd would have me IMMEDIATELY question Peters competency and hed lose any and al good will or benefit of the doubt with me.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

Saw that tweet yesterday and had the same reaction.

 

Like uhhhh are you sure Mr. "Throws only 20% of the time when forced off the spot" has throwing off schedule as a strength?  Are you sure sure?

 

Yeah this is just getting weird. It's like talking about a baseball prospect and touting how good he is at hitting home runs when there's plenty of data which directly indicates that's something he actually kind of sucks at. And then touting that player over another guy who actually does hit home runs.

 

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Taking JJ 2nd would have me IMMEDIATELY question Peters competency and hed lose any and al good will or benefit of the doubt with me.

I wouldn’t question the selection of any of the 3 QBs likely available. There is so much conjecture around each one that it’s quite the statement to say you would question our GMs competency over it. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't think the staff liked the Maye/Howell dynamic and decided it was better to get rid of Howell, and the value from the Seahawk trade was too good to pass up.

It's also worth noting that Howell was definitely gone and the only time you'd get value in a trade was this offseason, next offseason with 1 year left on his deal, it probably would have been a late day 3 pick. 

 

Instead we turn an early 4th (102) into an early 3rd (78th), and an early 6th (179th) into an early 5th (152nd), 24 slots of movement on day 2 more or less, and 27 slots of movement relatively early in day 3. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. 

 

I would have rather kept Howell if the best we could get was a 5th or 6th rounder, instead we turned a 4th into a 3rd and a 6th into a 5, that's something I can deal with in a draft that's clearly this attractive, particularly in positions of need particularly considering that Howell was highly unlikely to stick around after a his first contract. Turned that '22 5th rounder in a meh draft into some nice draft capital this year as we're bottoming out in '23-'24. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Taking JJ 2nd would have me IMMEDIATELY question Peters competency and hed lose any and al good will or benefit of the doubt with me.

 

 

I feel you, but I wouldn't go that far.

 

I agree with SIP that McCarthy has the personality, charisma, and attitude that you look for in your behind center  team leader.

 

In fact, I would rank him number one, of all the rookie qbs, with respect to those specific  attributes. So I get the allure.

 

I just don't know that he's on par with Daniels or Maye as a pure passer and he would not be my preferred choice at 2 overall.

 

However, I know that I don't know a damn thing about how to evaluate and project qb play from college to the NFL, beyond the superficial.

 

If Peters, Quinn, abd Kingsbury decide that McCarthy's their guy, I will back them 100% for now, and reserve judgement until I see how he, and the qbs we don't choose, perform on the field.

 

This would be one hell of a bold ballsy move and they're not going to make it lightly.

 

God help them if they don't get it right and either one or both of the other two qbs turn into great players.

 

 

Edited April 3 by CommanderInTheRye

[Rolo Tomasie]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

1. Comes of of 1v1 coverage on the outside, he might have been reading rb but still had a reciever 1v1 to the outside to the left. reciever slips a little but it looks like he came off the route before the slip. The receiver ends up open. This should have been the throw, but it looks like he had made his mind up pre snap and started the snap looking left to move the middle linebacker. Slot flashed open right in front of him but he passes on that route as well. If he puts it right on him, especially slightly back shoulder, the receiver is able to cut right up field, there is enough room there for the first down. Finally Maye decides to throw to a guy that is bracketed in double coverage to the left and right side. The guy falls and Drake is able to hold the ball and gets sacked. If he makes the throw here there is a high chance of an interception. Maye shows amazing hand strength here being able to tuck the ball. This was not a good play by Maye, he passes up 2 open throws and then intends to try to squeeze in a very difficult throw to a guy that is double covered. 
 

2. Has a receiver that broke free past the zone coverage and the safety was late to help, a good throw to him equals a Td, but instead Maye tries a very difficult throw into double coverage. Not a good decision here.

 

3. blitz coming from Mayes right, line picks it up pretty well, Maye rolls left getting away from pressure, delayed blitz coming from left now that Maye starts to roll, looked good rolling left and buying himself some time, but then throws a dirt ball to an open receiver. He could have led him or put it on him for a completion but instead short hopped him Horribly inaccurate pass.

 

4. Nice job after slipping to get his composure and run for a few yards. Then he fails to get down takes a big hit and fumbles. turnover.

 

5. drifts into the rush a little bit and is late on the throw. Made the right read but because he drifted into the rush and was late on the throw the defender had enough time to close the space making a completion nearly impossible.  This one could’ve and should’ve been a completion. Not a good play by Maye.

 

This is all I got time to do on my lunch break.

 

I do appreciate you putting in the time to do this for us, it’s a long process. And I appreciate your hard work. I just wanted to post this to show how people can see things a little differently. If I get time later I’ll try to review the rest of the game. 
 

Again I thank you for your post.

 

 

I can't really thank you in return for your own post. Because it's kind of condescending garbage. Sorry man.

 

For one you missed the point of my post so badly that I'm positive you didn't even read it. I was much more talking about the total picture of Maye, Tez, Wilson and others. Jesus you were so intent on delivering an angle you missed the forest for the trees. Secondly I was actually pretty critical of Maye on the plays where he deserved it. I used words like "this is a bad play by Drake." I think judging by your very slanted response that you just assumed my post was all Drake ass-smoke. I actually ciriticized some of the same stuff you did....at least where you stuck within reality.

 

From play one, thanks for pointing out that I missed that the outside left wideout also slipped and nearly fell! WHich is really why I enjoyed breaking down this game, all the crazy **** happening all over the field. And this play is also very clearly not a sack as he gains a couple yards (though there is a holding call). Your own take is so biased you can't see that, you describe it as a sack. And you're gonna fault Maye for coming off a first read where the wideout slips to start his route?

 

On plays 2 and 3 I criticized the same thing you did!!!! See I actually read yours, you should go back to mine. I actually described play 3 with the words "Negative pocket movement and negative throw." 

 

So spare me the "I appreciate you I really do" BS and go back and read it.

 

Can't wait til you finish this awesome deep dive going beyond the first 5 plays, which as you know are some of Maye's worst of the game, and also when you apply this same scrutiny to JJ's worst game (cough TCU).

[Jags]

15 hours ago, mistertim said:

The running QB has a higher chance for injury because he can get hurt in the pocket, like any QB, but he can also get hurt when he turns into a running back outside of the pocket and gets hit.

 

I see where you're coming from, but it's not as linear as that.  Let's say your guy runs a third of the time.  He's spending a third less time in the pocket, so that's a third off the top right away.  So the argument boils down to:  "Do NFL quarterbacks get hurt more/worse while they're running or while they're in the pocket?"  And people have studied that and the result is typically that running QBs don't get hurt more often, and it's problematic to try to quantify severity of injury because it depends on the hit.

 

However, it seems logical to me that while they may not get hurt more often, their style of play isn't sustainable if those injuries pile up.  A running QB that loses a step or two has to reinvent their pocket instincts entirely.  They don't have the ESCAPE button they've had their whole lives, so they have to learn to be pocket passers or their efficacy plummets.

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

"He gets up when the stock market opens and he's working until 4:30 when the stock market closes," Maye said. "He's doing after-hours stuff. It's kind of that obsession over something that he tries to instill in us. If we find something we love, then he tells us to put the maximum effort into it."

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Benkert has been in the tank for Daniels for a while. I noticed that too when watching his analysis of Daniels vs Maye. For Daniels he seemed to make every excuse under the sun for why negative plays were someone else's fault: it was the OL, it was the receiver, it was the play calling. Neither Maye nor Williams got anything close to that luxury from him, especially Maye.

 

Yeah, there's a lot of talk out there for sure, but there's also Steve Young the Buccaneer and Steve Young the 49er, y'know? 

 

4 hours ago, Tress Is The Way said:

JD5 will get thrust into the starting line up way too soon and behind our porous (and believe me, it IS very poor) offensive line, his body type, it's got RG3 written all over it. Stellar first year, gets injured, flames out and becomes an espn analyst. We've seen this story before, and we got BURNED. Why oh why would this fan base want to go through the same thing over again? 

 

But we're Equal Opportunity Destroyers of Careers here.  We broke Smith and Fitzpatrick, too, and knocked Wentz around quite a bit.  The only guy that could survive here was Heinicke running for his life with zero expectations from the crowd (which is why we loved him).  And when we did have a guy worth keeping, we couldn't run him out of town fast enough.

 

Now I personally believe that RGIII would have busted regardless because he was an egomaniacal douche.  But lots of people have wondered what might've happened if he played for an organization that told him NO, you can't play hurt because we traded a mountain of value for a quarterback OF THE FUTURE.  So we're going to be responsible and take care of you, and we're going to surround you with people who will drill into your head that Hero Ball is for morons.  Plus, Kirk's playing pretty good.  Sit down.

 

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

I kind of agree with this. For me Howell would have been a better (and cheaper) backup option than Mariota. Mariota is not a guy who has exhibited great 'vet leadership' recently either. 

 

Yeah, that's how I felt about it, too.  Why not have two guys that might develop into a winner?  But I'm no expert and the trade value was pretty damn good.  I just wish it wasn't Mariota.  If it's not about style of play and just helping a young QB navigate minefield of being an NFL starter, get Flacco.  But I guess Mariota is a serviceable amalgam of the guy you'd be comfortable starting if you had to (Howell) and a respected, savvy vet that you hope doesn't play at all (Flacco).

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I feel you, but I wouldn't go that far.

 

I agree with SIP that McCarthy has the personality, charisma, and attitude that you look for in your behind center  team leader.

 

In fact, I would rank him number one, of all the rookie qbs, with respect to those specific  attributes. So I get the allure.

 

I just don't know that he's on par with Daniels or Maye as a pure passer and he would not be my preferred choice at 2 overall.

 

However, I know that I don't know a damn thing about how to evaluate and project qb play from college to the NFL, beyond the superficial.

 

If Peters, Quinn, abd Kingsbury decide that McCarthy's their guy, I will back them 100% for now, and reserve judgement until I see how he, and the qbs we don't choose, perform on the field.

 

This would be one hell of a bold ballsy move and they're not going to make it lightly.

 

God help them if they don't get it right and either one or both of the other two qbs turn into great players.

 

 

 

Yeah I wouldn't completely lose faith in the FO if this happened. I'd still trust them for now, but I'd be dubious about the pick. So I mostly agree with what you're saying here, except for one thing. I don't think McCarthy would be a "ballsy" move, football wise. I think it would be a somewhat safe move because IMO he has a higher floor but lower ceiling than Maye and Daniels.

 

(Though there could certainly be validity to the idea of it being a ballsy move from a fan sentiment standpoint)

Edited April 3 by mistertim

[mac8887]

5 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

I can't really thank you in return for your own post. Because it's kind of condescending garbage. Sorry man.

 

For one you missed the point of my post so badly that I'm positive you didn't even read it. I was much more talking about the total picture of Maye, Tez, Wilson and others. Jesus you were so intent on delivering an angle you missed the forest for the trees. Secondly I was actually pretty critical of Maye on the plays where he deserved it. I used words like "this is a bad play by Drake." I think judging by your very slanted response that you just assumed my post was all Drake ass-smoke. I actually ciriticized some of the same stuff you did....at least where you stuck within reality.

 

From play one, thanks for pointing out that I missed that the outside left wideout also slipped and nearly fell! WHich is really why I enjoyed breaking down this game, all the crazy **** happening all over the field. And this play is also very clearly not a sack as he gains a couple yards (though there is a holding call). Your own take is so biased you can't see that, you describe it as a sack. And you're gonna fault Maye for coming off a first read where the wideout slips to start his route?

 

On plays 2 and 3 I criticized the same thing you did!!!! See I actually read yours, you should go back to mine. I actually described play 3 with the words "Negative pocket movement and negative throw." 

 

So spare me the "I appreciate you I really do" BS and go back and read it.

 

Can't wait til you finish this awesome deep dive going beyond the first 5 plays, which as you know are some of Maye's worst of the game, and also when you apply this same scrutiny to JJ's worst game (cough TCU).

Actually I was being candid in my thanking you for your post, I know you put hard work into it. I wasn’t trying to bash you or your post in any way, I had enough time during lunch to do 5 plays. I actually did a whole game of Jayden about 40 pages back and it was a lot of work so I don’t plan on doing another. Like I said earlier I actually appreciate your post. You very well could be more right on your assessment than i. I’m no scout.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

It was probably posted yesterday and I just missed it, but Cynthia Freulend on NFL Network said the Bears should take Jayden Daniels. The segment was about the best fit for success, and that was the choice she suggested for Chicago, which then left her with Caleb Williams to Washington. That would be a hell of a curveball if that's how it unfolded.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It was probably posted yesterday and I just missed it, but Cynthia Freulend on NFL Network said the Bears should take Jayden Daniels. The segment was about the best fit for success, and that was the choice she suggested for Chicago, which then left her with Caleb Williams to Washington. That would be a hell of a curveball if that's how it unfolded.

 

So replace Fields with a skinnier Fields? Brilliant.

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It was probably posted yesterday and I just missed it, but Cynthia Freulend on NFL Network said the Bears should take Jayden Daniels. The segment was about the best fit for success, and that was the choice she suggested for Chicago, which then left her with Caleb Williams to Washington. That would be a hell of a curveball if that's how it unfolded.

Our Caleb Williams index card would be delivered to the Commish faster than any pick in history if that were to happen.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Rank often ranks this team as the worst in the NFL, he finally was almost right last year on that.

 

Weird take.  I think it was a PFF guy recently thinking its comical that some push the idea of teams passing on Qbs to trade down -- so hard to find that franchise QB that its insane to just pass that over as if it just materializes when the time is right. 

What I find odd is how many insiders/contacts in the NFL think the Patriots should trade down but we shouldn't. Why should we stick but not them? Honestly? I'm not with Est. on the trade down idea, but I find it odd that despite both teams having fully earned their horrible draft slotting, the Patriots are assured that a trade down makes the most sense for them, while it would be stupid for us. I think quite simply, a trade down is idiotic, period. The Patriots and Commanders have nothing worth a damn at QB on their respective rosters. Both OL's are at best, below average and possibly quite worse, and while we have the only good WR between the two squads, neither squad is talent rich at any playmaking position. The Patriots are slow and crap at WR, the only speedster on NE being seeming bust Tyquan Thorton (I still think he might pan out, he's been injured and his QB's have been trash), both RB rooms are slow as hell and untalented, although the Patriots got Gibson who is the only quality athlete between the two teams that isn't old, the TE's on both rosters suck, and both teams have some talented defensive players, but only one of them has a track record of performing adequately as a unit recently (NE). Basically, both teams have multi-year builds ahead of them, and both teams are staring at a miserable QB class in '25 compared to the '24 group (In fairness, I think '25 is more like '11 than say '19 or '22 which were just hot garbage. '11 had a lot of guys that were worth a 1st, but only one that was elite, for now '25 looks like no elites, but probably 3 or 4 worth a 1st dart). 

 

But anyway, how does NE fix QB if they don't do it now? How do the Commanders? The '25 class probably doesn't have the answer and if it does, it would be at the 1.01, New England is too good defensively to earn a 1.01, and the Commanders probably did enough in FA to win too many games in '25 to pick at the top of the class, so it's now or never for both. The Arch Manning pipedream in '26 is just that, it isn't happening. So its now or never. Why are people recomending NE trade down? It makes no sense whatsoever. Both teams will stink next year too, and both will get draft capital to address issues both in this class and next from having sucked this year and next, but only one of these classes likely has answers at QB? The idea that NE should trade down is just absurdly stupid.

 

As for us, I'll be straight, if I knew we were going to take Daniels at 1.02, I'd trade down simply because I think Penix has a better chance of being an NFL caliber QB that can do the job, than Daniels. I'm a huge Daniels skeptic, and I'd rather have draft capital via trade down and Penix, than just Daniels. But Maye? Maye I'd take all day at 1.02. But that's a different topic, what I'm really trying to figure is why teams think NE should trade down when they have the same problem as us:

The Team is horrible

The QB room is empty

The playmaker suck

Entire position groups are subpar

The '25 QB class has few if any answers

 

How to fix that? Take a QB and then hammer the other positions on day 2 and early day 3. New England has the 34th pick, the 68th pick, the 103rd pick. Plenty ammo to attack WR or OL or D. 3 Top 68 picks. Get the QB, get yourself a legit WR, and hit OL with your 2nd or 3rd. Boom. Next year, hit the rest. Use your 4th probably on OL or D. 

 

I'm just baffled by the advice for New England. Makes zero sense to me to reccomend totally opposite strategies to teams that have similar problems and similar building block assets. 

[Jumbo]

40 minutes ago, Rolo Tomasie said:

I can't really thank you in return for your own post. Because it's kind of condescending garbage. Sorry man.

 

For one you missed the point of my post so badly that I'm positive you didn't even read it. I was much more talking about the total picture of Maye, Tez, Wilson and others. Jesus you were so intent on delivering an angle you missed the forest for the trees. Secondly I was actually pretty critical of Maye on the plays where he deserved it. I used words like "this is a bad play by Drake." I think judging by your very slanted response that you just assumed my post was all Drake ass-smoke. I actually ciriticized some of the same stuff you did....at least where you stuck within reality.

 

From play one, thanks for pointing out that I missed that the outside left wideout also slipped and nearly fell! WHich is really why I enjoyed breaking down this game, all the crazy **** happening all over the field. And this play is also very clearly not a sack as he gains a couple yards (though there is a holding call). Your own take is so biased you can't see that, you describe it as a sack. And you're gonna fault Maye for coming off a first read where the wideout slips to start his route?

 

On plays 2 and 3 I criticized the same thing you did!!!! See I actually read yours, you should go back to mine. I actually described play 3 with the words "Negative pocket movement and negative throw." 

 

So spare me the "I appreciate you I really do" BS and go back and read it.

 

Can't wait til you finish this awesome deep dive going beyond the first 5 plays, which as you know are some of Maye's worst of the game, and also when you apply this same scrutiny to JJ's worst game (cough TCU).

 

I held back a response to Mac because I was a little blunt with him awhile back (only appropriately, as to how I always address forum participation). But when I read it I thought it was a great example of an obviously biased and uselessly incomplete "rebuttal." 

 

Calling it garage as you did may be a little harsh, but I get it. But I think Mac's intentions are those of a good guy overall.

 

I will say something else I've held back awhile. There's an old saying in classic debate circles about judging two competing  sides of an argument: "you can often tell the merits of an argument by noting who has chosen to support it." 

 

While it may sound like it's making the supposed "error" of "confusing the quality of the  message with the messenger", it's not.

 

It's about bias, almost always manifesting from some emotional (not objectively analytical) component as a main driver behind the position taken.

 

I. E. Favoring or liking one "side" of a matter based on early onset "feelings", "instinct", "beliefs", etc on the matter first, and then seeking to use arguments to justify the choice.

 

This as opposed to arriving at the matter with a neutral position initially and then taking in valid credible and relevant data and arriving at a conclusion.

 

I noted long ago that a handful of posters here, some new to the forum, or having only recently re-engaged to primarily talk about the QB choice, seem to have brought a biased or even "fanboy" type of presentation, all choosing JD as their preference. I think I still see that to some degree. But it's not that bad.

 

And I've consistently posted, I can see it as a real fair debate, even if not everyone wasn't  originally or truly neutral in the beginning.

 

As for the sources, I'm also consistent. The best ones offering useful data are of value to me.

 

The opinions, whether from ex pro QBs or media pundits I treat only as entertainment conversation if even that.

 

With the exception of a few specific, limited, instances, they mean little or nothing to me as data points. 

 

Most coaches and scouts are saying things of which, again, I would only assign a limited value to in very specific instances because of the audience I'm in-----we are all outsiders.

 

All these guys have all kinds of motives behind what they're choosing to say to media and I doubt that their sole intent or top priority is to honestly convey their most honest, thoughtful, informed,  neutral analysis.

 

Now, I'm going back to tossing pigeon bones in my back yard, a process that has never failed me in arriving at the right answer in any matter. 🤡

 

 

 

[DogofWar1]

Everyone be nice to each other.

 

There will be plenty of time for being mean to each other once the guy we draft fails.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I’d be more inclined to believe JJ McCarthy is a great driver if mom and dad would’ve trusted him with the keys a little more often.

[HTTRDynasty]

He was the team. 
 

 

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Our Caleb Williams index card would be delivered to the Commish faster than any pick in history if that were to happen.

Nothing will ever beat the Orakpo pick.