Jags

There is zero chance anyone is paying QB prices to move up to 2 to take a receiver. MHJ isn't that much better than the next couple WRs in the draft.

I see where you're coming from, but it's not as linear as that. Let's say your guy runs a third of the time. He's spending a third less time in the pocket, so that's a third off the top right away. So the argument boils down to: "Do NFL quarterbacks get hurt more/worse while they're running or while they're in the pocket?" And people have studied that and the result is typically that running QBs don't get hurt more often, and it's problematic to try to quantify severity of injury because it depends on the hit. However, it seems logical to me that while they may not get hurt more often, their style of play isn't sustainable if those injuries pile up. A running QB that loses a step or two has to reinvent their pocket instincts entirely. They don't have the ESCAPE button they've had their whole lives, so they have to learn to be pocket passers or their efficacy plummets. Yeah, there's a lot of talk out there for sure, but there's also Steve Young the Buccaneer and Steve Young the 49er, y'know? But we're Equal Opportunity Destroyers of Careers here. We broke Smith and Fitzpatrick, too, and knocked Wentz around quite a bit. The only guy that could survive here was Heinicke running for his life with zero expectations from the crowd (which is why we loved him). And when we did have a guy worth keeping, we couldn't run him out of town fast enough. Now I personally believe that RGIII would have busted regardless because he was an egomaniacal douche. But lots of people have wondered what might've happened if he played for an organization that told him NO, you can't play hurt because we traded a mountain of value for a quarterback OF THE FUTURE. So we're going to be responsible and take care of you, and we're going to surround you with people who will drill into your head that Hero Ball is for morons. Plus, Kirk's playing pretty good. Sit down. Yeah, that's how I felt about it, too. Why not have two guys that might develop into a winner? But I'm no expert and the trade value was pretty damn good. I just wish it wasn't Mariota. If it's not about style of play and just helping a young QB navigate minefield of being an NFL starter, get Flacco. But I guess Mariota is a serviceable amalgam of the guy you'd be comfortable starting if you had to (Howell) and a respected, savvy vet that you hope doesn't play at all (Flacco).

I think it's closer than that, but the one thing you can definitely say is that Elway did it without the tools that Young had around him. Elway dragged that team to the playoffs and championship games by himself a lot of the time. Thank God they finally put a real offense around him at the end. Miami never did with Marino, who I think maybe had the best arm ever. But to each his own. I like the warriors, and Young and Elway are definitely on that list. Kelly comes to mind, McNabb had it for a while there... Anyway, the type of guys you'd choose to start a game for you with your life on the line; the ones that leave it all on the field, 24/7. Like receivers... Moss might be the best pure specimen ever, but that dude took games off; delighted in not putting in the effort when he got pissed. Screw that guy. TO came with a lot of drama, too, but he brought it on gameday every time. Rice. Megatron. Fitzgerald. Monk, for that matter. Gamers.

Right. Fun. I prefer the same kinds of QBs VOR does. Guys like Marino and Roethlisberger who would find the 1 square foot of space inside the pocket, stand on it, and get the ball where they wanted it to go, no matter what chaos was going on around them. But the duel threat guys are fun to watch. Then we got one and he was an egomaniacal injury machine and now I have PTSD and pleasepleaseplease don't put me through that again... I see your Elway and raise you a Steve Young. Legend. People don't talk about him enough.

I agree with everything in this post, and this sums it up nicely. I'm leaning Maye, too, but I won't be heartbroken if it's Daniels. I love football, and dual-threat QBs are fun. When I see one take off it's always, "go... Go... GO!!!!!" But when it's MY guy it's, "get down... Get Down... SLIDE!!!!!" Then I close my eyes and hope the announcers don't say, "Oh no... ... ...That's just... Gross... I mean, ew... They're not supposed to bend like that... [dry heaving sounds]... Sorry, Steve... How are they going to put him on a stretcher all twisted up that way?" And so on. That's what I'm talking about. Watching him with that W on his helmet was going to ****ing kill me. But then he showed up to his pro day looking like this and I'm thinking maybe I'll be able to survive it with a pacemaker cuz dude looked like an extra from Captain Phillips like 6 months ago...

And I would say the exact same thing. A fair difference. No hyperbole there. I agree. And then there's... ...hyperbole galore. Maye is tall. A quarter inch taller. Big difference? And built? Did you see him without his shirt on at his pro day? Not remotely built. Like barely at all. Now to be fair, he doesn't have to be. The wider meso frame is an advantage, and his actual build in terms of musculature is absolutely fine. He's well-proportioned with a great wingspan, and his arm talent shows his flexibility. But no, he's not built. In fact, it's kinda the other way around. Daniels has that ectomorphic build for sure, which isn't ideal. But he's pretty well built for a guy with that frame. He was definitely rail-thin last year, but look at the meat on his legs at his pro day. He's back to looking like he did a couple years ago... And yeah, I'm sure he went to McDonald's and hydrated his ass off, but that's what you do when you're making that change. There's no question he's been chasing that with workouts. You're right that he's thin comparatively speaking. But he's laid out the way you'd want a guy his size to be for sure, and no, Maye is no Adonis, even by comparison. Most of the weight difference is the mesomorphic frame. For the record, this is how I feel about it, 100%. I think his weight at his pro day was probably accurate and that he looked strong. Part of my concern with his frame is how top-heavy he seemed, so adding weight to his base (which was very evident that day) is a good sign. But I also agree that he's likely maxed out his frame for the most part. 220 might not be unattainable, but the worry with a high-metabolism ecto build is how hard he'd have to work in the gym to keep it on. I don't want my franchise guy putting those kinds of miles on his body in the gym, plus it's a great way to overdevelop and hurt yourself. If he can learn to better protect himself I'm not too concerned with his size.

Dude didn't miss a start in 55 games in college, despite his size and sack/hit tendencies. In his entire college career he missed like 15 minutes because he had to clear concussion protocol (and did). Now of course that's not the NFL, but it shows that he's been durable versus everything thrown at him so far. He did curb his reckless tendencies a lot the second half of last year, so it can be argued that he's already making that adjustment. And he had his best games late in the year, so those tweaks didn't slow down his results. The coaches don't make the decision, and none of the coaches are talking to the press at all, so that concern doesn't appear to have any real weight behind it. It's just connected to that fear that many have with Daniels -- they feel he'll be injured and that Maye is the safer pick, thus skewing the narrative in that direction. And that might be logical, but there's no actual info out there telling that story. So that quarter inch of height and 15 pounds of weight is THAT transformative? The difference between utter devastation and prototypical size is the weight of a bowling ball? I agree that the overall style of Daniels' game has never aged all that well in the NFL, but we're getting hyperbolic about the weight thing. Because a dude said the Commanders "really like" JJ on Twitter? There's a ton to "really like" about all the top QBs in this draft. You don't think the same guys really like Daniels, Williams, and Maye? Look, despite my responses to these quotes, I'm still leaning Maye. I just think it helps to be honest about the actual information we have, and to be careful to separate "actual info" from all the rampant speculation that goes on this time of year ahead of every draft. Daniels' size looked surprisingly good at his pro day, especially his legs. And Maye threw like an absolute beast on his pro day, showing very little of the issues people are harping on. The issues are there for sure, but he nailed a 70-throw script at a pace no one else even came close to during their throwing sessions. Lots of bogus narratives out there dominating the news cycle at the moment, in my opinion.

I didn't say that he's not humble or thinks he's perfect. I said his answer didn't demonstrate that humility, and that it could easily mean nothing. But Daniels' answers to that question have been pretty perfect. The only thing I think that proves is that there IS an upside to Daniels being older. He's more mature, better prepared, and understands what's expected of him in this process. Maye's answer -- if it's telling at all -- might show that he thinks of humility as a weakness. That's pretty typical of young men, especially in the sports world. Or he might just be getting inferior advice from the people around him helping him navigate the process. 🤷‍♂️ And look, there IS evidence to the contrary. Drake had to adapt to a new offense in 2023 and soldier through a big drop in talent around him. That shows an ability to change, and there was a lot to be said about his mettle and toughness in there, too. And even afterward. Make no mistake, sometimes it takes a big serving of humble pie to teach someone humility. Josh Allen didn't arrive in the NFL a changed man. It took a couple years in Buffalo to make him realize he was dissatisfied with his game. THEN he turned it around. I think the lesson there for us is to help our guy get to that place as early and often as possible, regardless of who we choose. There's at least two or three QBs floating around the league whose team quit on them before they even had a chance to turn it around. We can't be one of those teams. A #2 overall pick in a deep QB draft is ridiculously valuable. We can't waste that by refusing to be patient if it doesn't pay off right away.

It's a humility thing. He had the presence of mind to see that there were issues to solve, trusted the right people, went to Biometrics, and got it sorted out. There's certainly an intelligence component to it, too -- you have to be able to understand what you're being asked to do, why it's important, and follow the stops to fix it -- but the big thing is you can't be an egomaniac about it. You're not perfect. You're not a finished product, and the game is constantly evolving. If you're going to be any good at all, you'll be learning new things your entire career. Willingness and ability to change. As I said in my last post, I see more of that in Daniels than Maye, but that's based on very little info (cuz 100% of what I'm talking about takes place behind the scenes). It also doesn't help that they're selling themselves to teams right now, so a lot of what we DO see could easily be baloney.

Agreed. It's also one of the issues I have with Daniels. All this talk about the development time Maye might need because he'll need to retrain himself to blah blah blah. And I agree with some of that, but the process Daniels will have to go through to change his running/sack tendencies is no different, figures to take no less time, and might get him killed in the meantime... ...and this is one of the big things I like about Daniels. When talking about the things he might need to change, Maye hasn't said much of substance, and has been reiterating his confidence in his game and ability. Now that's most likely just pre-draft sound bites fed to him by his reps and not a big deal, but it sounds like the kind of bull**** you hear interviewing anyone for a job -- "My biggest weakness is that I work too hard and care too much." So it might be nothing, but it could be a lack of humility, and that's a real problem when you have issues that need fixing. Look no further than RG3's headstrong nonsense. Daniels, on the other hand, has been very humble (and seemingly more candid and genuine) when answering that question. He's talked a lot about the things he feels he needs to work on. Maye clearly has an impressive work ethic, but a willingness to work doesn't mean much if you can't look inward and identify your issues. All in all, being honest about each guy's strengths and weaknesses is just underscoring how complicated this process is and how different the candidates are in both style and substance. Very different, and yet somehow pretty equally talented and flawed... I'm super glad we have a front office that appears to be analyzing every option and detail.

Did he regress or did the offense overall? I think a lot of people would argue that throwing for 300 yards and 2 touchdowns per game is pretty good for a QB dealing with the installation of a new offense and a significant downgrade in both receiving and O-line talent. I mean, which season means more when you consider the transition they're about to make to shaky NFL teams: The guy who played in God Mode with a stacked offensive roster in his 5th year or the guy who adapted and dealt with a lot of adversity switching offenses and dealing with lackluster talent around him in his 2nd year? Daniels played versus superior talent, so that mitigates it a bit, but Maye just had a college year very similar to the year he's about to have if the team that drafts him has him start. Showing he could still thrive despite a new offense and weak O-line isn't nothing considering that's exactly what he's likely to be dealing with this year in the NFL. I'm certainly no expert, and I'm torn as to which guy figures to be better, but while figuring out how I feel about each candidate I've found that it helps to be honest. I don't think Maye regressed at all. I think he did the best he could despite the team around him disintegrating significantly year-to-year.

Why the 30 yard line? I always took the move to the 25 as giving an extra 5 yards to discourage running it out. And I hated it because 80-yard drives were the norm forever. Now it's the 30? Makes no sense to me. A touchback should still be the 20 no matter what. A 10-yard reward for being able to kick far is dumb. Get off my lawn! 😉

Makes me wonder how it'd feel if you were Maye, ended up going to the Giants, and then it comes out over time that, yeah, they did everything they could think of to tank your stock so they could draft you. If that happened to you, would you... Laugh it off and be flattered. Quickly realize that this immediately cost you $6 million and vow to get every penny back on your next deal, plus interest. Drag your new team on social media and act like the spiritual offspring of Johnny Manziel and Jaime Tartt, reality show and all. Not bother responding to silly questions on a sports message board in the first place. I believe that they're still undecided though. No sense having your minds made up when there's still plenty of opportunities to learn more. Seems similar to how they landed Quinn (unless you buy the narrative that they screwed the whole thing up and settled). Chose their candidates and went through a thorough process, not worrying too much about time and options coming off the board cuz those guys clearly didn't want this job anyway. Good way to get the right coach, might work for QB, too.

But remember our luck. We make that deal then can't move up to get JJ, maybe end up with Penix. And he's great, but remember our luck. Penix's leg falls off at his introductory presser, and we're left with Mariota missing or not seeing Jefferson for 17 games next year, still win enough to bork our draft position next year because of the other upgrades and coaching. And maybe we can come back from that, but remember our luck. Penix gets a weird necrosis from the bum limb that turns into the zombie disease we all know is coming, half the population gets eaten by their neighbors, we get hit hardest because we were at ground zero, so the team really sucks and we do manage to finally get a #1 overall pick just in time for like the worst (and smelliest) draft class ever. Maybe some of the flyover colleges will survive cuz they have all the preppers and guns, and we'll get some super elite stud QB from Bama or wherever. Prolly not though, because REMEMBER OUR LUCK. Or maybe it'll all work out fine. You do you.

I think some of these things are mitigated by the reality of their situations. You can say that a team failed to "get over the hurdle" but when that hurdle is the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs, you've gotta give a lot of that credit to the Chiefs. That particular hurdle is 12 feet high and wrapped in electrified barbed wire, y'know? Jackson's had to clear that same hurdle, and Hurts didn't get knocked out by nobody. Manning's hurdle being Brady/Belichick was often just as or more insurmountable. So I don't know how many of those are pure failures, or just the whole NBA appearing to suck whenever Jordan wanted a title. Lots of great players and teams barely sniffed a championship and never won because of the Bulls. Didn't make those players, coaches, or "styles" any less great. They just weren't enough to topple the best ever. What we're seeing in the NFL is the parity of the cap era. Every team can build a winner and many prove it every year. I don't think a particular style of QB play can't win it just because they can't unseat ridiculous generational greatness combined with brilliantly assembled teams. Marino could have had a ring for every finger if he played for an organization willing to build a team around him. Elway was the same story until they finally gave him a team at the very end. I don't think Montana would have had even remotely similar success as a Dolphin. A lot of the best examples of great teams or players not getting over the hump just boiled down to unfortunate circumstances. Sometimes the other team was built a hair better, and sometimes the ball just bounces weird that day. *shrug*