The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[illone]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I touted JJ pretty early during the college season.  I wouldn't hate it.  I'd be slightly dissapointed because I think he's the lesser of those three prospects.  But I like his floor.

 

Having said that, JJ to the Commanders feels so 8 days ago .  It had a little life. For a few days. 

 

Then it got shot down by so many including some local and national reporters I trust, that i think the ones who are going to be dissappointed are the ones hoping that there is life to that story. 

 

 

those reporters have the same data that you and I have… “Limited” 😂
 

just remember, our favorite team isnt going to draft based on rumors or stories or any of that stuff. 
 

For the first time in two decades we get to experience a real football operation without leaks, rumors, or meddling owner with their own agenda undermining the fabric of football strategy. 
 

For the first time in two decades proven football minds are putting themselves in the best possible position to win. Not just now, but for the foreseeable future. 
 

Buckle up. What we think or expect isnt going to happen the way we think or expect it. And it certainly wont be something we learn from a reporter or media talking head. Those guys are paid to guess. We get to do it for free 😂

 

I can get used to this way of doing business. It just feels “right”. Time will tell of course, but if free agency is any type of indicator, this is going to be our best draft in two decades, regardless of the QB we land on. 
 

 

[cboatner]

JJ=202 lbs., per Kurt Warner, "never had to carry the team, win with his arm", concerns anyone?

[SkinsFTW]

8 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Time will tell of course, but if free agency is any type of indicator, this is going to be our best draft in two decades, regardless of the QB we land on. 

 

 

 

Well if they are drafting JD they better find a Kirk Cousins because somebody is going to break that dude in half.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, cboatner said:

JJ=202 lbs., per Kurt Warner, "never had to carry the team, win with his arm", concerns anyone?

He’s not actually in the conversation. People are just joking.

[illone]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Well if they are drafting JD they better find a Kirk Cousins because somebody is going to break that dude in half.

 

GMAP said the plan is to bring 4 qbs to camp…
 

I doubt JD is part of the discussion, but yea definitely need a “cousins” or “purdy” late in this draft either way. 

4 minutes ago, cboatner said:

JJ=202 lbs., per Kurt Warner, "never had to carry the team, win with his arm", concerns anyone?

 

Warner is flat out wrong. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

I want Maye and agree with just about everything you said and quoted in that... very detailed post 😋

 

EXCEPT some of the ideas/things in the small-ish quoted excerpt.

 

Daniels and McCarthy didn't have *everything* working in their favor. Daniels had the pressure of playing with the worst-by-a-mile defense of any of the top QB prospects, almost constantly under the gun to score-or-else. McCarthy was playing for a team with a bullseye on its back every single week; everybody they played wanted to take down Michigan/Harbaugh, just about every game was "The Big Game" for the other team.

 

In addition, I see a reference to Michigan's "elite running game" but nary a peep (see what I did there, Hoppy Easter!) about the fact Maye's sidekick in the backfield was 1,500-yard All-American RB Omarion (I'm proud of myself for not calling him Ontario again, sigh) Hampton, 5th in the nation in rushing yards, who led the ACC in every major rushing stat and was one of three finalists for the Doak Walker Award. Maye DID NOT "carry the team on his back" - we have to concede he had more than a little help there, especially when we've got folks bending over backwards to credit the success of Daniels and McCarthy, at least in big part, to teammates.

 

I also take issue with "inconsistent at times." Maye was consistently inconsistent for two full years. Good games mixed with meh-or-worse games both years (and coming up small in the biggest games, even in his breakout 2022 season, referencing the trial-by-fire criticisms); and multiple breakdowns/analyses of Maye have referenced a disturbing tendency toward headscratching decison-making and inexplicably-bad throws - which I am not convinced, as apparently is the case for at least some analysts, can all be laid at the feet (ha, I did it again, see that... okay sigh) of bad mechanics.

 

Notwithstanding those concerns, despite those concerns, no matter how we want to phrase it, I am super pumped about the possibility Washington drafts this still-very-young stud with, as Jerod Mayo put, "no ceiling."  I'm not convinced the decision-making can be coached out of him, but with his talent/ability it'll be exciting no matter what.

 

My comparison to Daniels in particular monster season to Maye's monster season (yes he had one) is 2022.  He didn't have much of a running game, it was OK, but his receivers were better.  He didn't have two Jerry Rices like Daniels did but they were better than 2023.  Heck you can argue Daniels 3rd receiver, Lacy is up there with Walker or Downs.

 

As for his "inconsistent" 2022.  I granted i didn't watch every game.  But its not easy to have a season with stats like he ended up with by having a roller coaster season.    11 games were around 270 yards or more. Only 3 were less than that.  11 games were 2 TDs or more.  only 3 games were less than that.   13 of his 14 games had a QBR of 60 or better.    11 were 70 or better.  Many of them were in the 80s and 90s.  Those are some sick stats even going through them individually. 

 

You are taking the word "everything" way too literally.  Sure, by that definition.  No QB in the history of the world has "everything" working for them.  Every team has a weakness.  But I think most know what I meant by that.  As a passer, they had a lot working in their favor to help.  Much more so than Maye.  It's not close.

 

McCarthy with just 332 attempts.   He played in a run oriented offense with at times even extra protection and a strong defense.   Even JJ's biggest advocates aren't arguing against this point.  What they say is yeah the game wasn't on his back.  But they think they can do it if the game was on his back.  As for your narrative that JJ felt the pressure because Michigan was playing big games.  That's fine.  That's a subjective narrative.  It's not subjective that McCarthy didn't have to carry their team -- the stats back the narrative.  

 

As for Daniels, he had good protection.  He had great receivers.  Not good receivers but great ones.

Edited April 1 by Skinsinparadise

[Jumbo]

3 minutes ago, cboatner said:

JJ=202 lbs., per Kurt Warner, "never had to carry the team, win with his arm", concerns anyone?

 

Yeah. Everyone here thinks he's overweight and that's a big reason for his slowness and we think he's never shown enough passing skill to beat teams that way. 

 

Btw, be alert for ne'er-do-wells being smart asses in response to your post. 💩😁

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, illone said:

 

those reporters have the same data that you and I have… “Limited” 😂
 

just remember, our favorite team isnt going to draft based on rumors or stories or any of that stuff. 
 

For the first time in two decades we get to experience a real football operation without leaks, rumors, or meddling owner with their own agenda undermining the fabric of football strategy. 
 

For the first time in two decades proven football minds are putting themselves in the best possible position to win. Not just now, but for the foreseeable future. 
 

Buckle up. What we think or expect isnt going to happen the way we think or expect it. And it certainly wont be something we learn from a reporter or media talking head. Those guys are paid to guess. We get to do it for free 😂

 

I can get used to this way of doing business. It just feels “right”. Time will tell of course, but if free agency is any type of indicator, this is going to be our best draft in two decades, regardless of the QB we land on. 
 

 

 

I hear you.  But there is a limit to the point IMO.  For example lets take the coaching search.  Them hiring Quinn wasn't a shock if you followed the bread crumbs of reports from Keim.  There wasn't a ton out there.  But I heard enough for example to have doubts that Slowik (pet favorite to some on the board) was not a strong contender among the 6.    Heard enough that Quinn was a serious contender from the jump.  i didn't mind Quinn but he was far from my favorite.  Also heard enough that Ben Johnson was no lock -- he's the one I wanted. 

 

Keim doesn't guess.  If it were just him, I'd say hey maybe Keim will be wrong, he rarely is, but once in a blue moon he is.  But getting that vibe from Keim AND 5 other reporters makes me pause about McCarthy.

 

I'll grant that things can change.  But that's how it feels to me based on those I trust talking about it.  The most I gathered from those I trust on McCarthy is maybe in a trade down but not at 2.

 

And lol, my favorite complement anyone has given me in my years here is that I don't just say I am hearing such and such and filter it to fit my predispositions.  I like to know what I think will happen versus what I want to happen.   So on that front, Daniels is my #2 guy.  Maye #1.  Yet I've been saying it feels at this given time bread crumbs seem to that Daniels is the lean.  Keim flat out said so.

 

Maybe it all ends up BS.  I'll grant you.  But in my years following the draft, Keim is rarely wildly off. 

 

I think the best rebuke of all of this IMHO even if these guys are right about the lean whereever its coming from or that they don't want McCarthy at #2 -- that can all change.  Considering the other consistent point from reporters I trust is they have not decided.

 

But I do think Keim's inklings might not be full shots in the dark.  they were closed vested about the coaching search.  Yet Keim's bread crumbs proved to be on the money.  I think though the rumors will be more likely to be on the money or close as the draft approaches.  And I am not saying Keim or anyone will nail it.  But if some think its "not" going to be this or that guy, I take that more seriously than someone guessing who it will be.

Edited April 1 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think you are going down the wrong path if you want to bring Maye down a peg.

 

Arguing his supporting cast was plenty good enough is a tough road that few would go on including his critics.

 

But to play along, Josh Downs who was a third rounder 2 years ago and would be at best the #3 WR at LSU last year -- Maye had a monster year with him. 

 

Walker IMO isn't as good but even if he were he missed some of last season.  What stud RB are you thinking Maye has had?

Josh Downs had a very good rookie year, under drafted a redo he might be a 1st. With that said you are most likely right about him being no.3. still. That's a heavenly advantage for J.D he should have great numbers. It showed in the bowl game without Daniels, they did not miss a beat. Clearly this year's N.C. team lacked talent, Tez can't catch is true. And everybody keeps saying how great a team J.J. had around him? Did he have Bama, F.ST. Georgia,OH.ST.,Texas, Wash.  talent around him?  Roman and not much else at WR (3rd.rd.?)  2 day 3 OL,1day 2RB. Very good D. I cannot see a 1st. or 2nd. rd. OFF player in the draft other than McCarthy. The best coach that's a big plus over the others. Better talent overall then the other 3 except LSU OFF. but not great.   

1 hour ago, DogofWar1 said:

Keep in mind Tez was out the first 6 games.  And as has been mentioned he's really not all that good.  He's fast, yay.  He was also part of a unit that iirc had like an 8% drop rate.

 

Also keep in mind that UNC's defense was pretty bad, 74th in points allowed (27.1 per game).  So as great as their running back was, he's not gonna get that team to victory alone, with that many points against it's always gonna fall to the passing game.

 

JD's LSU was 80th in points allowed, 27.8, but given his weapons in the passing game it's a lot easier for JD overall.

 

Maye had it the hardest by several country miles.  We can admit that and still find reasons to support the other guys.

And the second half of the season is when they flopped. 

[illone]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But I do think Keim's inklings might not be full shots in the dark. 

 

Yea there is a reason why everyone likes that guy. He is well respected in and outside of the beltway. 
 

I usually watch his stuff a day late because I prefer the video version of his pod. 
 

What I’ve gathered from his draft stuff is that nobody knows 😂
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

@Dah-Dee

 

To respond to your laugh emoji.  Point taken that Hampton was really good last season.  I think though we are talking about two different things with the running game as to my macro point. 

 

Does the QB rely on the RB to carry the offense?   Yes in McCarthy's case.  The numbers back it.  Did Drake Maye rely on the running game?  Nope.   10 out of 12 games Drake threw the ball for 30 times or more.   McCarthy threw for 30 or more three times.  He had 8 games that was 15 attempts or less.  It's no comparison. Maye had almost 100 attempts more last year than McCarthy.  That's like 4 games more of passes.

 

I gather your point Omarion Hampton is fantastic and I am not giving him his due.  I'll take your word for it.  When I've watched Maye I admittingly paid no attention to him. So my bad on that -- kudos to Hampton.  And I don't mean that sarcastically.  Great stats from him.  He will be on my watch list next year for the draft thread.  Years back I liked their two headed monster RB duo Williams and Carter.  But my point is that offense was on Maye's back.  If you want to say he had a great RB.  OK, cool.  He didn't in 2022 and had his best season without one.

 

I am not the only person who wonders what Maye would do with Thomas and Nabers.   Plenty draftnik types made the same point.  I was one of the bigger Josh Downs people in that draft 2 years ago.  But he's not Thomas and Nabers. 

 

Also i am one of a select number of people on this thread who I gather actually likes all three QB prospects or maybe 2 of the three   but I don't dislike the third.  And not in that I'll swallow that dude if I must manner or I'll just trust whomever Peters picks.  I am actually sold on them.  I'd be jazzed.  I admit though much more for Maye and Daniels than McCarthy but I wouldn't hate it if its him. 

 

Daniels -- I was one of the first pushing him here.   Exciting player.  I am not quite as zealous as @wit33 on the dual threat QB.  But i am not a mile off.  I've by default typically liked QBs with wheels and the threats they pose to defenses.

 

McCarthy -- beginning of the college season last year, i wrote a longish thread about him after watching the Ohio State game, I was impressed.  I like what I've read about his makeup.  He's my 2nd fav QB in this class as to making plays off platform

 

Drake Maye -- I've said plenty about him today alone where there is no need to repeat. 

 

I don't think any of the three QBs flaws are likely fatal.  I have probably more concerns about Daniels from the context of durability.   I actually think McCarthy can emerge as a good QB -- but I do believe the team wasn't on his back -- I don't think that's hyperbole.  But lol, the dude meditates, I bet he will handle pressure fine in the pros. 

Edited April 1 by Skinsinparadise

[TheBigJourney]

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/commanders-seven-round-mock-draft-yes-theyre-taking-a-qb-but-thats-just-the-start
 

 

It was hardly a bombshell announcement last week when Dan Quinn revealed that it's "fair to envision" the Washington Commanders taking a quarterback in the first round. Because of course they are. And they are almost certainly doing it with the No. 2 overall pick.

 

The only worst-kept secret in the NFL these days is that the Chicago Bears are using the first overall pick on USC quarterback Caleb Williams. And that will leave the Commanders to choose from the next three — North Carolina's Drake Maye, LSU's Jayden Daniels and Michigan's J.J. McCarthy.

 

So which one do the Commanders prefer? Now that answer would really be bombshell news.

"If somebody thinks they know," said Quinn, the new Commanders' head coach, "they'll have to fill me in. Because (GM) Adam (Peters) and I, we're not there yet."

 

No, they're really not, according to a team source, despite the rampant speculation that they've made up their mind.

 

First round, 2nd overall: North Carolina QB Drake Maye

 

Sometimes the first answer is the best answer. All during the college season, scouts and NFL talent evaluators talked about Williams and Maye as the clear two best quarterbacks in this draft. Some even thought the actual order was debatable. Now, after a full season, after a few months of evaluation, and after the Bears have locked in on Williams, some of those same people are talking themselves out of Maye.

 

What about the Commanders? Multiple NFL sources believe Maye is still high enough on their draft board to be their possible — maybe even probable — choice, though there is also a belief that Peters is also strongly considering McCarthy. Daniels can't be ruled out either, but the Commanders aren't going to draft their long-term franchise quarterback because he's supposedly a better fit for their current offensive coordinator's scheme. They're going to take the one they think is the best prospect.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Yea there is a reason why everyone likes that guy. He is well respected in and outside of the beltway. 
 

I usually watch his stuff a day late because I prefer the video version of his pod. 
 

What I’ve gathered from his draft stuff is that nobody knows 😂
 

 

 

If it was like the coaching search, no one knows (Keim would say the same) who they are about to hire.  But Keim's hints on that search as if we going on -- all of them were proven correct.

 

So to use a food analogy.  We don't know what they will buy for dinner.  That could very well end up lets say eating pasta, pizza or lasagne.   Keim I don't think will be bold enough to pick one.  But if he starts saying it won't be Chinese food, we can rule that out.  And they are down to pasta and pizza.  Good chance Keim will be in the ball park of being right.

 

But to your point, he's saying its a moving target right now.

 

I agree with those here (many) who say the odds are good they have a preference even if they aren't decided right now.    If so, how well they are hiding that preference and or whether that preference sticks, will see.

 

And heck I'd bet against many reporters as to getting this right.  But especially as we get closer to the end if Keim paints some general idea of what they are likely to do, Id guess he's close to being on the money.  But will see.

Edited April 1 by Skinsinparadise

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think you are going down the wrong path if you want to bring Maye down a peg.

 

Arguing his supporting cast was plenty good enough is a tough road that few would go on including his critics.

 

But to play along, Josh Downs who was a third rounder 2 years ago and would be at best the #3 WR at LSU last year -- Maye had a monster year with him. 

 

Walker IMO isn't as good but even if he were he missed some of last season.  What stud RB are you thinking Maye has had?

I wasn’t trying to bring Maye down a peg. The poster asked if there was ever a player that Maye played with that had been drafted in the first 3 rounds, so I answered his question. I’m confused on how you saw that as an attack against Maye?

[FootballZombie]

Just got back from Godzilla/Kong.

It would be awesome to have a QB that practically every SEC player polled said put similar levels of fear in their hearts.

 

 

 

 

[gooseneck]

Just now, FootballZombie said:

Just got back from Godzilla/Kong.

It would be awesome to have a QB that practically every SEC player polled said put similar levels of fear in their hearts.

 

 

 

 

From what I hear Kong is the better Quarterback on the run and Godzilla is better from the pocket.

[TheBigJourney]

At least from the Fox sports article I posted as well as the other reports about him, I get the vibe that Peters likes McCarthy a lot more than people think. He possesses a lot of intangibles that are crucial to a franchise QB and has room to grow as a 21 year old. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s viewed as Kirk Cousins with better mobility, and we know how much that 49ers front office wanted Kirk back in 2017.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I wasn’t trying to bring Maye down a peg. The poster asked if there was ever a player that Maye played with that had been drafted in the first 3 rounds, so I answered his question. I’m confused on how you saw that as an attack against Maye?

 

OK sorry. read the post where you were responding to someone who said that the other Qbs had the higher talent.  You responded about Maye's RB, receivers and even his TE in another post -- so it came off to me that you were saying Maye had plenty of talent. 

 

But if you were just responding specifically to he had a receiver taken a 3rd round -- cool, got it.

Edited April 1 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[TheBigJourney]

8 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Wow. Too bad they probably don’t have a trade partner for it.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Yeah, sorry Minnesota. We can’t just let you have any quarterback that you want. I’m sure that sounds really great to you but that’s just not gonna work for me.

[MisterPinstripe]

2 minutes ago, TheBigJourney said:

Wow. Too bad they probably don’t have a trade partner for it.

Yeah it's funny. If the team picking high already had a QB then sure you can trade. But you have 3 teams at the top all needing a QB in a great QB draft. Why the heck does anyone think they can trade up because they need one. Good luck, just like you can't trade back without a willing party, can't trade up just cause you want to. 

[DiscoBob]

16 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Suck it KOC, you can't have him!

 

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Yeah, sorry Minnesota. We can’t just let you have any quarterback that you want. I’m sure that sounds really great to you but that’s just not gonna work for me.

 

Yeah **** them.  If they wanted Drake, they should have sucked more.

[DiscoBob]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah **** them.  If they wanted Drake, they should have sucked more.

 

Damn straight! You need Riviera Del Taco level of suckage.... sorry you Viking freaks, you can't compete with our historic dumpster fire!!!!!