The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DogofWar1]

If the Fields market is very crappy it's possible the rumors of a Howell market are much exaggerated, so we may be just rolling with Howell in the "early season starter then draftee's backup" role.

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

If the Fields market is very crappy it's possible the rumors of a Howell market are much exaggerated, so we may be just rolling with Howell in the "early season starter then draftee's backup" role.

Yeah I doubt Howell has that much value league wide. I mean Fields stinks but if he can't even fetch a 3rd then its unlikely Howell can net even a 4th.

[Command The 414]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I doubt Howell has that much value league wide. I mean Fields stinks but if he can't even fetch a 3rd then its unlikely Howell can net even a 4th.

Totally agree, and despite not being much better imho I do think Fields has more upside and more value league wide then Sam does

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Eh, I think it takes good coach + good QB.  
 

You need both.  And coaching develops players.  
 

Some really good QBs get stuck in purgatory with bad teams and bad coaching.  

I think its far more players than coaches. I think the great coach, is like having some great DB's, it's a part of a build, but nowhere close to having an elite QB+a good team around them. I don't think coaches do much developing of players, when they get to the NFL, they are typically 21-22. They aren't 8-12. I think coachcentric analysis of success has been largely proven to be ridiculous based on whats happened to these HOF coaches when they had to move on to teams w/o the QB piece. Noll became nothing after Bradshaw, Shula was very ordinary without Griese and even with Marino, Bilicheck sucked without Brady, Parcells was very above average to average without Simms, Andy Reid was meh with Bad McNabb and Alex Smith, Jimmy Johnson left Aikman and was never better than .500+ with Miami. You can go on and on and on. Gibbs is one of the truly rare exceptions which defensive fan bases of their dynasties refuse to acknowledge. Never had a HOF QB, and rarely even had good ones, and won anyway. It's damn near impossible to think of another example that did it without the QB. But a ton of guys have done it with the QB, then not had the QB, and been immediately mediocre or worse. That's telling to me. 

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That might be more because Brissett doesn’t want to come back and wants to go to a team where he has a legitimate shot to play.

 

I think they’re going to try and find a backup who has some experience with the air raid offense terminology, either college or pro, assuming they will use Kingsbury’s base offensive terminology for the offense before they modify it.

 

I don’t know who that is but it’s my guess.

This is my concern with Kliff: how many guys in the league have run his system? I don't even remember who Kyler's backup was when he was HC.  

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, dunfer said:

If sam was 6'3 id run it back and trade down.

 

Sam is still here and has every opportunity even if we draft a guy at 2. Sam is going to be able show all these new coaches hes the guy if he is. Still dont think a short qb works for long though

It's more about us landing the 1.02 than anything. If we had finished 7-10 or 6-11 or whatever and landed a pick in that 7-12 zone, I'd be about stick with Sam, trading down for Penix and OL help etc pending the cost of climbing to 1.03.

 

But we didn't, we tanked perfectly and our opponents in tanking were idiots (like we usually are) and typically won an extra 2-3 games the last 6-7 weeks one wouldn't expect, pushing them behind us, and us upward in the slotting order, gifting us a chance at a franchise QB.

 

It's really that simple. If you don't have a QB that either is a franchise QB, or clearly has a strong chance of becoming one based on available evidence, you have to pick one in the draft if you have a chance. 

 

In this situation, we simply have to take our shot, and swing that bat. Doesn't mean Howell isn't one, he could become one, but the data from this season was more suggestive of a QB with an average to slightly above average ceiling, rather than an elite ceiling, and as such, I'm perfectly fine with keeping Howell around, more than half of starters missed time last year after all, and who knows, maybe he shows me I was wrong, and we have two franchise guys, or the guy we take busts and he hits, who knows, but the one thing I absolutely am not doing, is pretending a franchise QB is clearly in house, and we should build the rest. I'm a huge Matt Kelley supporter at playerprofiler, generally speaking, he's on point, but he makes the same trade down point King and others have made and they're all just wrong. I understand why Matt makes it, his view is pretty simple, you ramp up a QB's bust potential by saddling him with a crappily built team without an OL or playmakers. But the reality is, building everything else first works under the assumption that you can either produce a bottom 1 to 3 season easily after building up the rest of the team (farcical idea) or that you can hit a Mahomes/Watson/Allen Grand Slam in the late top 10 to mid first round any time you want, whene the truth is, those guys, are legit THE ONLY guys picked in the mid-1st in the last 20 years to have actually become franchise guys, and Watson himself flamed out, so it's really just 2 guys. Pretending you can just tank, after fixing everything but QB, is idiotic, teams typically force a bridge QB signing to guide the built up team to .500ish seasons, guaranteeing you aren't in the blue chip zone in later seasons and #2 hitting on franchise QB's in the teens is largely a fools errand. It is exceptionally rare. Far more often you just get Josh Freeman's, Dwayne Haskins, Jake Lockers, Christian Ponders, EJ Manuels and on and on and on. 

 

When you're rebuilding and trying to address the most important position to get right, your plan shouldn't require "blind luck", "a trade scenario that happens once every 10-15 years," or a team to trade down with you even though, you know, they'd really rather just pick Joe Burrow, or Caleb Williams, or Andrew Luck, themselves".

 

Simply put, it's idiotic, and has infinitely less chance of success, than simply taking your swing, and building up your OL and playmakers as fast as possible before and after drafting said QB. To help Maye or Daniels, we need to heavily use the '24 and '25 draft classes on OT, IOL, WR, TE, RB as well as FA. We have in Stromberg the equivalent of a 3rd round IOL already thrown in to our '24 class after he missed '23 to boot, so guaranteed, I fully expect the FO to add at least least 3 day 2/early day 3 prospects, and at least 2-3 starters and reserves to the OL this offseason, period. That should help avoid the David Carr/Sam Howell pit fall. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

One guy they do have on staff (asst QB coach) is David Blough.  Makes one wonder if they even plan to have an active roster mentor.

 

 

I just posted this in the FA thread: Sorry to those of you that had to read in twice lol

 

Bough will be the “vet presence” for Maye/Daniels and Howell will be the backup.
 

If Maye/Daniels isn’t ready to start week #1 then Howell will and they can learn plenty watching him whether he does well or not.

 

Any questions from Maye/Daniels about “why is” or “why that” concerning all things QB play can be answered by Blough/Prichard/Johnson/Kingsbury.

 

There is no need to bring in a vet imo. 

 

 

[RWJ]

Swaying back and forth and coming back around to the QB those who thought from day one would be the QB selected at #2

 

Commanders Projected to Draft 'Perfect' Quarterback Option (msn.com)

 

Story by David Harrison  • 23h 

 

The group who believe the Washington Commanders will move forward with Sam Howell as the team's starting quarterback is dwindling down to near zero. 

 

While the amount of people who feel the Commanders should stick with Howell is still larger than most realize, there isn't a whole lot of actual belief behind the desire.

 

Instead, most believe Washington will likely do what it failed to do in 2020 when the team passed on quarterback Justin Herbert and drafted defensive end Chase Young with the No. 2 pick.

 

North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye. Bob Donnan-USA TODAY Sports© Provided by Washington Football on FanNation

Who that quarterback is, however, is also up for debate. The latest speculation into that conversation - this time coming from The Athletic - has the Commanders taking North Carolina's Drake Maye to replace good friend and former teammate Howell.

 

"Jayden Daniels would not surprise me at No. 2 either but I’m predicting the North Carolina star for now," The Athletic says. "If the Vikings lose Cousins and were willing to trade up from No. 11 to No. 2 or No. 3, I like them as a destination, too, especially since new quarterbacks coach Josh McCown actually coached Maye in high school. But Maye is a perfect quarterback for the new regime in Washington to build around. (Dane) Brugler compared him to Justin Herbert.

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I doubt Howell has that much value league wide. I mean Fields stinks but if he can't even fetch a 3rd then its unlikely Howell can net even a 4th.

Howell's numbers were much better than Fields who played behind an underperforming, often injured OL and OC whose play calling was under average at best.  Comparing Field's number and his OL and OC to ours makes Howell easily worth a early 3rd, IMO and I think it gets offered.  Two things.  Does Peters make the trade for an early 3rd or keep Howell in hopes of a revival, so to speak of his play.  

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Keim said in his FA podcast that he didn't think they'd bring Brissett back.  

I agree, HigSkin.    He will want more than he got last and I don't think he gets it but with lack of QBs who knows.  Peters won't pay him.  Again, Blough might be player/coach.   

[FrFan]

Mark Schlereth Explains Why J.J. McCarthy May Be More Pro-Ready Than Other QBs in Draft

 

J.J. McCarthy is a popular name during NFL draft season this year, as the Michigan quarterback has climbed up boards to become a possible top 10 pick. While many fans are left wondering what NFL teams are seeing in McCarthy compared to other top quarterbacks in the draft, one analyst believes that McCarthy has one attribute that gives him an advantage over the rest.

Mark Schlereth explained on the Stinkin’ Truth Podcast that McCarthy’s experience in Michigan’s pro-style system means he is more ready to enter the NFL than other quarterback prospects.

 

“He’s one-of-one as far as I’m concerned when it comes to quarterbacks who operate at the line of scrimmage in a pro-style system,” Schlereth said. “He’s in control at the line of scrimmage. He’s not just looking at a card saying ‘barn, rooster, chicken,’ he’s actually operating and changing strength calls.”

McCarthy was coached by Jim Harbaugh for three years, and Harbaugh’s experience as an NFL coach likely benefited McCarthy’s development. In two seasons as a starter, McCarthy threw for 44 touchdowns to just nine interceptions, although his production was more inconsistent than other top quarterbacks.

Schlereth added that he was taught how a quarterback’s college production isn’t as important for scouting as displaying NFL traits. While top prospects like Caleb Williams, Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels all thrived in college, their offensive systemes were different than McCarthy’s.

“When I look at these quarterbacks, I’m looking for transferable skill sets,” Schlereth. “That’s why I said J.J. McCarthy is shooting up the draft board because he’s the only guy who is operating pre-snap.”

 

NFL draft season always features at least one quarterback that impresses teams through the process, and McCarthy seems to be the choice this year.

[Voice_of_Reason]

44 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

This is my concern with Kliff: how many guys in the league have run his system? I don't even remember who Kyler's backup was when he was HC.  

Well, Colt McCoy for the last 2.  
 

In college, Mahomes ran it.  Howell and Maye both ran versions of the Air Raid offense at UNC.

 

You’d have to go back to college for a lot do them, but a lot of college programs use the air raid offense as the base terminology.  There is a tree there.  

And I don’t think we’re going to run the air raid.  They didn’t run it in Arizona.  But the base terminology might be similar 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[mudhog]

11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I don't understand how to interpret this data.

[Command The 414]

43 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Mark Schlereth Explains Why J.J. McCarthy May Be More Pro-Ready Than Other QBs in Draft

 

J.J. McCarthy is a popular name during NFL draft season this year, as the Michigan quarterback has climbed up boards to become a possible top 10 pick. While many fans are left wondering what NFL teams are seeing in McCarthy compared to other top quarterbacks in the draft, one analyst believes that McCarthy has one attribute that gives him an advantage over the rest.

Mark Schlereth explained on the Stinkin’ Truth Podcast that McCarthy’s experience in Michigan’s pro-style system means he is more ready to enter the NFL than other quarterback prospects.

 

“He’s one-of-one as far as I’m concerned when it comes to quarterbacks who operate at the line of scrimmage in a pro-style system,” Schlereth said. “He’s in control at the line of scrimmage. He’s not just looking at a card saying ‘barn, rooster, chicken,’ he’s actually operating and changing strength calls.”

 

McCarthy was coached by Jim Harbaugh for three years, and Harbaugh’s experience as an NFL coach likely benefited McCarthy’s development. In two seasons as a starter, McCarthy threw for 44 touchdowns to just nine interceptions, although his production was more inconsistent than other top quarterbacks.

Schlereth added that he was taught how a quarterback’s college production isn’t as important for scouting as displaying NFL traits. While top prospects like Caleb Williams, Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels all thrived in college, their offensive systemes were different than McCarthy’s.

“When I look at these quarterbacks, I’m looking for transferable skill sets,” Schlereth. “That’s why I said J.J. McCarthy is shooting up the draft board because he’s the only guy who is operating pre-snap.”

 

NFL draft season always features at least one quarterback that impresses teams through the process, and McCarthy seems to be the choice this year.

I love his podcast… and I just watched this podcast where he mentioned JJ, and to be honest, I totally agreed w/every word he said… he mentioned the guy Laser and think about it, it’s not always the best but the best suited for the NFL… JJ ran the offense that pretty much mirrored that of a NFL style scheme… I’ve been saying it for awhile now (even before the combine) I think when the dust settles and years go by McCarthy will be the best QB taken from this draft… also a side note, watch some of the other podcasts where he talks about the combine being useless, and where the WR have doped the NFL in paying them more then they’re worth… both very good podcasts

Edited March 9 by Command The 414

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, mudhog said:

I don't understand how to interpret this data.

QBs who have been able to overcome bad situations are near the bottom. No coincidence that most of the top QBs in the league can be found there. Shows what an elite QB can do to help make up for deficiencies elsewhere. 
 

Small sample size, of course. 
 

 

Edited March 9 by HTTRDynasty

[moondog]

6 minutes ago, mudhog said:

I don't understand how to interpret this data.

It’s hard for any QB or team to win a game when their defense doesn’t generate a single turnover. It’s more about the defense’s inability to take the ball away than anything. 
 

It’s another way of saying how important winning the turnover margin is. And emphasizing how excited we should all be for our defense given Quinn and more specifically Whitt’s ability to generate turnovers. Whitt has capitalized specifically on interceptions everywhere he’s been regardless of draft stock invested in the secondary. I’m excited to see what he can do and if he can maximize Forbes, Martin and Forrest who have all shown a penchant for creating turnovers at some level. Combined with their proven track record of maximizing defensive talent I’m excited for all the guys on that side of the ball. 
 

If the guys above plus Davis and St Juste don’t look drastically better this year I doubt they’re ability to be good anywhere. I can’t speak for the offense but I expect a very sharp defense this year that gets the ball back. And for them to look as good as they have since Gibbs 2.0/Gregg Williams. 

[Warhead36]

That Sharp analysis would be better if it were turnover margin instead of takeaways. You can have 0 takeaways but if you commit 2-3 yourself, you're gonna lose. 

[mudhog]

1 minute ago, moondog said:

It’s hard for any QB or team to win a game when their defense doesn’t generate a single turnover. It’s more about the defense’s inability to take the ball away than anything. 
 

It’s another way of saying how important winning the turnover margin is. And emphasizing how excited we should all be for our defense given Quinn and more specifically Whitt’s ability to generate turnovers. Whitt has capitalized specifically on interceptions everywhere he’s been regardless of draft stock invested in the secondary. I’m excited to see what he can do and if he can maximize Forbes, Martin and Forrest who have all shown a penchant for creating turnovers at some level. Combined with their proven track record of maximizing defensive talent I’m excited for all the guys on that side of the ball. 
 

If the guys above plus Davis and St Juste don’t look drastically better this year I doubt they’re ability to be good anywhere. I can’t speak for the offense but I expect a very sharp defense this year that gets the ball back. And for them to look as good as they have since Gibbs 2.0/Gregg Williams. 

OK. I get this explanation. Thanks ya'll.

[skinny21]

14 minutes ago, mudhog said:

I don't understand how to interpret this data.

Man, I thought it was obvious:  this proves Heinicke is the 8th best qb in the league 😜

[Conn]

55 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Mark Schlereth Explains Why J.J. McCarthy May Be More Pro-Ready Than Other QBs in Draft

 

J.J. McCarthy is a popular name during NFL draft season this year, as the Michigan quarterback has climbed up boards to become a possible top 10 pick. While many fans are left wondering what NFL teams are seeing in McCarthy compared to other top quarterbacks in the draft, one analyst believes that McCarthy has one attribute that gives him an advantage over the rest.

Mark Schlereth explained on the Stinkin’ Truth Podcast that McCarthy’s experience in Michigan’s pro-style system means he is more ready to enter the NFL than other quarterback prospects.

 

“He’s one-of-one as far as I’m concerned when it comes to quarterbacks who operate at the line of scrimmage in a pro-style system,” Schlereth said. “He’s in control at the line of scrimmage. He’s not just looking at a card saying ‘barn, rooster, chicken,’ he’s actually operating and changing strength calls.”

 

McCarthy was coached by Jim Harbaugh for three years, and Harbaugh’s experience as an NFL coach likely benefited McCarthy’s development. In two seasons as a starter, McCarthy threw for 44 touchdowns to just nine interceptions, although his production was more inconsistent than other top quarterbacks.

Schlereth added that he was taught how a quarterback’s college production isn’t as important for scouting as displaying NFL traits. While top prospects like Caleb Williams, Drake Maye and Jayden Daniels all thrived in college, their offensive systemes were different than McCarthy’s.

“When I look at these quarterbacks, I’m looking for transferable skill sets,” Schlereth. “That’s why I said J.J. McCarthy is shooting up the draft board because he’s the only guy who is operating pre-snap.”

 

NFL draft season always features at least one quarterback that impresses teams through the process, and McCarthy seems to be the choice this year.

What? Is Schlereth doing the thing that misguided posters here were called out for—assuming that being in a “pro style” offense means McCarthy has control at the line of scrimmage? He absolutely does not. He has no authority before the snap, he straight up said it in his Combine media availability. He “wished” he did. Schlereth just got caught in 4K not actually studying these guys imo. 

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, moondog said:

It’s hard for any QB or team to win a game when their defense doesn’t generate a single turnover. It’s more about the defense’s inability to take the ball away than anything. 
 

It’s another way of saying how important winning the turnover margin is. And emphasizing how excited we should all be for our defense given Quinn and more specifically Whitt’s ability to generate turnovers. Whitt has capitalized specifically on interceptions everywhere he’s been regardless of draft stock invested in the secondary. I’m excited to see what he can do and if he can maximize Forbes, Martin and Forrest who have all shown a penchant for creating turnovers at some level. Combined with their proven track record of maximizing defensive talent I’m excited for all the guys on that side of the ball. 
 

If the guys above plus Davis and St Juste don’t look drastically better this year I doubt they’re ability to be good anywhere. I can’t speak for the offense but I expect a very sharp defense this year that gets the ball back. And for them to look as good as they have since Gibbs 2.0/Gregg Williams. 

 

As excited as I am about this defensive staff and it's penchant for creating turnovers it is also a mild concern of mine, kind of a live by the sword die by the sword thing.

 

 

[skinny21]

Dang, Goff with 9 out of 44 games in which his D didn’t get a turnover.  Meanwhile Howell with 7 out of ~ 16?

[Conn]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

 

As excited as I am about this defensive staff and it's penchant for creating turnovers it is also a mild concern of mine, kind of a live by the sword die by the sword thing.

 

 

Only if you think creating turnovers must necessarily come at the expense of playing fundamental tackle football on defense. I find it’s the opposite—defenses that obsessively flow to the ball and swarm tend to be the defenses that have guys in position to create and take advantage of turnovers. Your post above makes it sound like you’re tunnel-visioned on the idea of DB’s “gambling” for INT’s and sometimes getting toasted if they don’t get them. That’s not really what an emphasis on turnovers in hunt + hit defensive football means imo. It’s punch-outs, it’s ball awareness at all times, it’s good fundamental tackling that allows teammates to go for the kill, turnover wise. It doesn’t have to be feast or famine with good coaching and scheming imo. 

[mistertim]

I'm not really convinced that playing in a "pro-style" system in college should be all that high up on the list of evaluation and projection criteria. Does it mean the guy may be more comfortable starting sooner when he gets to the NFL? Sure, possibly. But there are ways to mitigate that and ease a guy who's getting used to that type of system into the game as he goes (if you want him to start right away).

 

And it's not like guys from non pro-style offenses in college can't learn NFL style offenses. They do it all the time. So to me it's lower down on the list of what to look for. Behind things like work ethic/leadership, traits, overall football IQ, processing speed, etc.

 

To me the more interesting question would be less "Did he run an NFL pro-style system in college?" and more "Did he regularly make NFL type throws in college?" You can learn the system, but being able to make those throws in college (from a physical and mental standpoint) says more IMO.

[NOLA2DC]

49 minutes ago, Command The 414 said:

I love his podcast… and I just watched this podcast where he mentioned JJ, and to be honest, I totally agreed w/every word he said… he mentioned the guy Laser and think about it, it’s not always the best but the best suited for the NFL… JJ ran the offense that pretty much mirrored that of a NFL style scheme… I’ve been saying it for awhile now (even before the combine) I think when the dust settles and years go by McCarthy will be the best QB taken from this draft… also a side note, watch some of the other podcasts where he talks about the combine being useless, and where the WR have doped the NFL in paying them more then they’re worth… both very good podcasts

I saw him on someone's show the other day, and my response is always Brady Quinn. I remember Charlie Weiss talking about how well Quin would do because he ran a pro offense at ND but in the end, that did not help. I think as long as you have mental and physical talent to be a pro QB that's all that matters. Also, gone are the days of trying to fit a QB into a system that doesn't work for them. If you select a guy high, you need to adapt the system to them and highlight his strengths. I think JJ  is being hyped too much, Nix and Penix actually have the stats, while JJ is a projection from a running team.