The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[dunfer]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have exactly the opposite opinion of Simms.  I think mosy of his takes have been wrong and he’s a headline grabbing shock jock moron.

 

I haven’t watched the piece, I won’t, I have no idea what it says.  
 

But he’s most likely wrong because he’s not trying to be right.  He’s trying to be relevant 

trying to be different, so people like us talk about him

[ThatNFLChick]

1 hour ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

So Simms just released his annual rankings, which I was kinda waiting for because he usually gets the top ones right and has good, unfiltered insights throughout. So even if you disagree, he's exhaustive about what he's seeing and how he got to where he is with his rankings.

I knew he liked JD and had been critical of Maye, but wow...

 

He's got Maye as the #6 QB prospect behind Williams, Daniels, Nix, Penix, and McCarthy. He acknowledges the athleticism, talent, and potential, but says there's not enough refinement to project him right now as a franchise QB.

They keep the QB he's currently talking about at the bottom of the screen, so it's easy to navigate if you want to jump around.

 

Thanks. Simms rankings are always interesting. 

[mistertim]

Yeah pretty much every year Simms seems to either choose a popular QB prospect to trash or a less popular one to put on a pedestal. I'm not sure if he does it just for the hell of it or so he can get more clicks and views. Overall he's really not any more reliable than any other analyst throwing **** at the wall. 

[Mrshadow008]

Chris simms also had Zach Wilson ahead of Trevor Lawrence and I believe Kellen mond as his third best qb in the draft a couple years ago. Also had Will Anderson as the 5th or 6th best edge coming out last season you know the guy that went number 3 overall and won defensive rookie of the year last year. Just sayin 

[NoCalMike]

Predicting what QB's will or won't succeed in the NFL is extremely tough because there is just such a difference in the college game and NFL game.  I also think that the first 2-3 seasons of a QB's career can really make or break them depending on the organization, coaches, roster, etc etc......I think we see cases of QB's with a lot of talent get drafted into terrible situations that don't do a lot to benefit their development and by their third season they are already so behind the curve.  Sometimes it is that the QB turns out to just not be that good, but I think other times the environment of their early NFL career absolutely failed to foster success.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Thanks. Simms rankings are always interesting. 

Yep.  And generally wrong in every direction.

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Yeah pretty much every year Simms seems to either choose a popular QB prospect to trash or a less popular one to put on a pedestal. I'm not sure if he does it just for the hell of it or so he can get more clicks and views. Overall he's really not any more reliable than any other analyst throwing **** at the wall. 

No.  He’s much less reliable because he’s actively looking to be controversial.

 

I put him in the same category as that failure of a human being scumbag Collin Cowherd.  Except Simms probably isn’t a devil worshipping piece of human excrement.  But he’s the same category of media personality.  

[Jumbo]

Simms is the kind of media head that lessens the cred of the whole field. Impressive.

 

[Commander202]

3 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

He's not nearly the pass rusher he was, but he is valuable to them. He does a great job playing opposite Micah Parsons and keeping the QB penned in on that side for other pass rushers to have better shots at the QB. He's also their best Edge at run defense by far.

 

If they got rid of him, I think their Front 4 play noticeably worse. Or it could mean Dallas thinks Lawrence is starting to get washed up and his effectiveness will wake quickly. He has had some bad back injuries.

Serviceable for sure , I’d still would draft a DE . Health been an issue but that’s someone I can see Quinn jumping onto .hopefully we don’t sign a lot of 30 year old + players , I understood the Ertz move for sure .

[Conn]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Living in fear vs living in analytics and percentages. Last two #2 overall picks for Washington: RGlll, Chase Young. We'll see how this goes. Faith in our staff.

That’s the definition of anecdotal evidence. Not analytical research. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have exactly the opposite opinion of Simms.  I think mosy of his takes have been wrong and he’s a headline grabbing shock jock moron.

 

I haven’t watched the piece, I won’t, I have no idea what it says.  
 

But he’s most likely wrong because he’s not trying to be right.  He’s trying to be relevant 

 

I think he's wrong, because the same traits he cites as worrisome for one prospect become positives for a different prospect. I think his evaluations are inconsistent, which leads me to think bias is somehow creeping in.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have exactly the opposite opinion of Simms.  I think mosy of his takes have been wrong and he’s a headline grabbing shock jock moron.

 

I haven’t watched the piece, I won’t, I have no idea what it says.  
 

But he’s most likely wrong because he’s not trying to be right.  He’s trying to be relevant 

 

I watched the whole thing last night.  That's the 2nd spin of watching now of him about the QBs.  Not sure what happened to the dude.  Used to love his positive upbeat energy and humility.  In both segments he comes off like he is the ultimate authority about QBs.  He actually more or less said there is no way the rest of the NFL doesn't see it exactly the way he does.  So taking his position for example on Maye -- he suggests 100% chance the NFL will also rate him as the #6 QB.

 

look any pundit could say whatever they heck they want.  It's opinion.  And its all cool.  But when it comes to the hardest thing to judge in sports, the QB position, for a dude to believe they are the complete authority-verdict on talent -- they are absolute fools to be wasting their time on youtube -- if Chris is that confident about his skills he should be making billions running an NFL team since he's the first to crack the QB code.  The new Einstein of the NFL, trail blaizer, pioneer. Some dude had to crack the code eventually and Chris is the self proclaimed dude to pull off what was previously seen as the impossible feat.

Edited March 7 by Skinsinparadise

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yep.  And generally wrong in every direction.

No.  He’s much less reliable because he’s actively looking to be controversial.

 

I put him in the same category as that failure of a human being scumbag Collin Cowherd.  Except Simms probably isn’t a devil worshipping piece of human excrement.  But he’s the same category of media personality.  

Yikes. Tell us how you really feel about Cowherd. I assume that you won't invite him over for Easter dinner. 

[Est.1974]

I find some of these views on historical media QB predictions pretty interesting. 
 

Evaluating a QB pre draft is one thing. The success of that QB, once in the league, becomes a more complex discussion also driven by the circumstances of the team they land with, coaching staff, roster strength etc.

 

These are all arguments pretty much everyone on here uses about this team. Andrew Luck would have failed here because we suck and the organisation would have ruined him etc etc. That kind of thing. 
 

The short/medium term success of this years crop will be way more than just natural talent/ability. Get a ‘tier 2/3’ QB in the correct environment and he might just end up a winner…..

[OtisDriftwood25]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched the whole thing last night.  That's the 2nd spin of watching now of him about the QBs.  Not sure what happened to the dude.  Used to love his positive upbeat energy and humility.  In both segments he comes off like he is the ultimate authority about QBs.  He actually more or less said there is no way the rest of the NFL doesn't see it exactly the way he does.  So taking his position for example on Maye -- he suggests 100% chance the NFL will also rate him as the #6 QB.

 

look any pundit could say whatever they heck they want.  It's opinion.  And its all cool.  But when it comes to the hardest thing to judge in sports, the QB position, for a dude to believe they are the complete authority-verdict on talent -- they are absolute fools to be wasting their time on youtube -- if Chris is that confident about his skills he should be making billions running an NFL team since he's the first to crack the QB code.  The new Einstein of the NFL, trail blaizer, pioneer. Some dude had to crack the code eventually and Chris is the self proclaimed dude to pull off what was previously seen as the impossible feat.

I listened to this last night but also fast forwarded to the player breakdowns. He did not come across that way in that portion. Just a person who is excited about what he saw on tape for the players he talked about. I don’t think anyone looks at Chris Simms as gospel. The bias because he doesn’t stay with this website narrative is pretty wild. The bias against his track record is also crazy to me. He’s had Mahomes, Stroud, Allen number 1 QB prospects in the draft which were against the conventional thinking. His rankings do not mean much to me but they are something I will watch every year for quarterback. The other positions I won’t really pay attention to. My personal opinion is he is reaching with 3-5. The category should be if drafted by the right team or have franchise quarterback traits. For instance if Atlanta signed Cousins and still picked McCarthy at 8.

 

Here is his Mahomes take:

Texas Tech's Patrick Mahomes is a special, special talent. He has the potential to be an Aaron Rodgers-, Brett Favre-type quarterback in the NFL, and he'd be a good fit with the Buffalo Bills.

Edited March 7 by OtisDriftwood25

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I listened to this last night but also fast forwarded to the player breakdowns. He did not come across that way in that portion. Just a person who is excited about what he saw on tape for the players he talked about. I don’t think anyone looks at Chris Simms as gospel. The bias because he doesn’t stay with this website narrative is pretty wild. The bias against his track record is also crazy to me. He’s had Mahomes, Stroud, Allen number 1 QB prospects in the draft which were against the conventional thinking. His rankings do not mean much to me but they are something I will watch every year for quarterback. The other positions I won’t really pay attention to. My personal opinion is he is reaching with 3-5. The category should be if drafted by the right team or have franchise quarterback traits. For instance if Atlanta signed Cousins and still picked McCarthy at 8.

 

He said the first time he talked about at the combine, no chance NFL teams won't see it the same way as him.  In yesterday's segment he said it again.  As a contrast for example Trice who is a borderline zealot for Drake Maye doesn't go there is no chance the NFL doesn't see it the way he does.  Draftniks typically don't take it that far.  But Simms did.

 

All these guys or most of these guys will get some wrong, and some right as we all do even as amateurs on the draft thread.  Heck for me as an amateur, I had my share of picks that look great including Terry McLaurin and had to defend the pick here among others.   You pick enough players you'll get some right.  Just how it works.  If we cherry pick the best evaluations we've all had -- amateur or draftnik or whatever, we'd all look like geniuses.

 

Chris Simms is entertaining and is as good and as bad as an evaluator I've watched over the years.  I do like watching-listening to most of these guys but I don't take any of them uber seriously.  But I do prefer some humility.  Kiper for example gets some grief for his arrogance when he was younger but now he goofs on some of his bad picks and doesn't seem to take himself ultra seriously -- and for my taste, I like that.

Edited March 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I find some of these views on historical media QB predictions pretty interesting. 
 

Evaluating a QB pre draft is one thing. The success of that QB, once in the league, becomes a more complex discussion also driven by the circumstances of the team they land with, coaching staff, roster strength etc.

 

 

The biggest factors according to most coaches talking about this.

 

A.  Work ethic.  As Arians said its like a golfer you have to constantly work on your swing and that's how you develop consistency.  And defensive coordinators will work all week to foil the opposing QB, expose their weaknesses and the QB needs to put in the work in to respond in kind

 

B.  Visual processing.  Everything happens so fast.  You got to see the field and process the defense -- protections in 3 seconds or less.  As Arians says he can't tell that with certainty from watching college tape.  He needs these guys in the building actually doing it to see if they can.  I recall at the time an anaylist was saying during RG3's 2012 run that his luck might run out because studying him he didn't think he saw the field well. 

 

And the challenge is you can't really know about both variables until they are in the building working with the team.  Both Shanny and Gibbs for example said they know quickly once they have the player whether they have "it".  But they don't know that predraft with confidence.

 

That's part of the reason why evaluating college QBs is so hard.  It's a major guessing game.

 

Felt good to hear Quinn talk about how thorough Peters was in a QB session (he didn't say who they were watching) as to his level of detail and studying said QB.  He told his wife after that session that Peters is a stud.  Hopefully Peters evaluation skills do the trick but even with that you need a little luck it sounds like as to guessing right.

Edited March 7 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Simms gets some right. He gets some wrong. I won't kill him for his misses just as I won't laud him for his hits. 

 

There are a million different analysts/pundits etc. that will have a million different evaluations.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Simms gets some right. He gets some wrong. I won't kill him for his misses just as I won't laud him for his hits. 

 

There are a million different analysts/pundits etc. that will have a million different evaluations.

 

[RVAskins]

8 hours ago, Jumbo said:

Simms is the kind of media head that lessens the cred of the whole field. Impressive.

 

He does have Mike Florio by his side so that's quite a duo. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Yikes. Tell us how you really feel about Cowherd. I assume that you won't invite him over for Easter dinner. 

Ok, sorry for being vague.  
 

Collin Cowherd can go **** himself up the ass sideways with a scorching hot tire iron.

 

Dude basically came out after Sean Taylor was murdered and said he wasn’t surprised because he was a gang member.  (Slightly paraphrased.)

 

It was wrong, uneducated and irresponsible.  
 

Dude can burn in hell as far as I’m concerned.  There are forgivable sins and unforgivable sins.  To me, his comments were the latter.  

[mistertim]

38 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

The bias because he doesn’t stay with this website narrative is pretty wild.

 

It doesn't have to do with this website. Simms is basically a complete and utter outlier in his take on Maye vs either pretty much any other draftnick/analyst and, if the reports are to be believed at all, any NFL team's scouts. As the 6th QB that's basically saying he's a 3rd round prospect.

 

And as others have said, he's not even consistent. Josh Allen coming out had plenty of footwork inconsistencies and accuracy inconsistencies, like Maye. But Simms mostly breezed through that with him and instead focused on his physical traits. He basically did the polar opposite with Allen vs Maye.

 

Now, he got Allen right. But given his history of picks (or anyone's history of picks) that was quite possibly just pure luck of the draw. It doesn't change the fact that he seems to make criteria up on the fly and then discard that same criteria for other prospects.

 

I think being "controversial" is sort of part of his schtick as a media personality. That's why I watch his stuff but rarely take him all that seriously.

[DogofWar1]

One thing with Simms' rankings, at least his historical ones, is he doesn't have tiers beyond his 2023 picks, so it's hard to know how much of a hit/miss he's making.

 

For example, in 2018 his rankings were Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold.

 

At first glance, this could be good calls with roughly 80% hit rate (if he has Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson ranked highly, and Darnold ranked poorly) where he only missed on Rosen.

 

But at the same time, he could have as low as a 40% hit rate (if he has Allen and Rosen high, and Mayfield, Jackson, and Darnold low) where he only hit on Allen and Darnold.

 

So tough to judge his rankings, and my gut says he's no better or worse than any other random talking head at this.

[HigSkin]

Russini with Sheehan yesterday talked about challenges as a reporter, trying to discern between what is true and what is a team needing to use you as a mouth piece to achieve something.

 

Hate to be a conspirator but screw it.  What if Chris Simms, son of Phil Simms who played for the Giants is out there slinging shade on Maye, in hopes he drops to NY?

 

Sounds far fetched but the Russini thing was fascinating and it goes on a lot.  Case in point, the Bears chatter is now that people in the org are torn on keeping Fields.  Schefter said that but seems they are trying to drive up interest in Fields by saying that. 

[RandyHolt]

Go to first unread post.... then click ahead to the 2nd to most recent page. The new normal way to peruse this thread

 

I get the perception Maye's stock kinda seems to be dropping. I am happy to see it if true since there should NEVER be crystal clear consensus on a crapshoot dart throw. I am sticking to my guns predicting Caleb wont be the best QB in this class - nothing against him its just there is a solid pool of competition that may well end up better.

[Ghost of]

9 hours ago, Jumbo said:

Simms is the kind of media head that lessens the cred of the whole field. Impressive.

 

He's as good an analyst as he was a QB in the NFL.