The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Mooka]

6 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Even if he did he would still be taking the hits are young QB would be taking and it would allow our young QB to develop for a year. Russell Wilson is not a bad QB. He had a pretty good year last year 26 touchdowns to only eight receptions with a 98 passer rating. He was able to compete for a wild card last year and would probably at least be able to do the same in a much weaker conference

 

Even if we did want Wilson, why would he want to come here? To be a punching bag and mentor for our face of the franchise #2 pick to replace him?

 

Just doesn't sound realistic on either side. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Peters in that Grant interview flat out said they'd be considering some high end FAs and bargain basement FAs, too.

 

I get the rhetoric about we want to build in the draft and not via FA.  Who doesn't say that?  Also, hey we aren't going to go nuts and spend big in FA.  Also most say that, too

 

But I get the sense at a minimum they will play it medium in FA. 

Edited March 1 by Skinsinparadise

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

My thing is, if hes that good, why not unleash him? I know Michigan had a great run game and D but a great passing game makes everything much easier. 

Why risk it if you are the coach of Michigan. A pass is always more dangerous than a run turnover wise. The goal was for the team to win a national championship not for JJ McCarthy to win a Heisman and gets selected first overall.

 

It’s hard to question a coach, who just won a national championship and an undefeated season

2 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

Even if we did want Wilson, why would he want to come here? To be a punching bag and mentor for our face of the franchise #2 pick to replace him?

 

Just doesn't sound realistic on either side. 

Russell will want to start. He would come here if we told him he would be starting for at least a year. Russell Wilson is a competitor, if you gave him a year in his mind, you’ve given him till he retires. That’s why he would come here. The chance to start.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is this roster any better than what the Panthers had for Bryce Young last season? I feel like Terry McLaurin might be the only thing that tips the scale in our favor. 

 

 

Not based on his target separation #'s last year. Your not wrong. Our roster is horrible, probably a touch better than Carolina's in terms of Robinson vs Chubba and Sanders, and I do think our WR's are better but really all of our combined WR/RB/TE groups compared to the rest of the league as a whole are probably 20th to 10th percentile quality comparatively speaking. The groups are straight garbage, period. That's why I have argued, this is a 4-5 win team, maybe next year, pending FA and the Draft. It is garbage all over the place and the few places it isn't are exiting the prime or close to exiting it. I think the ceiling is probably 7 wins, expectation is 5, floor is 2 or 3. 

 

People point to Houston, and its true, Houston's roster sucked too, but they play in a ---- division where everyone is garbage and had a weak schedule. We play in a solid division and never have a good easy schedule even when we finish last. Before Draft and FA, even if we do B level stuff this offseason, I think we go 5-12 next year, 6-11 tops, and I think there's a stronger chance it's more 3-5 then it is 5-7 in terms of wins. I'm okay w/that though, next years draft is probably not as good as this years from what I've heard, though it has to be better at RB, it's impossible to be worse (though I do like that we met with Brooks, the only high end prospect in the class), Im not sure if its a bad class or not, I'm only familiar with the offensive playmaker cohorts, and it has no Bowers, better RB's, worse WR's and much, much worse QB's, but if we can have top picks in back to back draft classes, that can only help rebuild this thing. I don't thin we'd be helped a lot by jumping quickly into a 9-8 or 10-7 team after this year, we need at least two, and probably 3 offseasons of out of the playoffs, 3-7 win seasons to really rebuild this thing, my guess, if we do this right, is we probably win 5 next year, 6 or 7, maybe 8 in '25, and then compete in '26. If it goes right. 

Edited March 1 by The Consigliere

[HigSkin]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to the PFF guys podcast. Sikkema and another guy.  It was about what they were hearing at the combine.  Some of it was...

 

A.  They echoed what Finlay, Tishler, Hoffman, Jeff Howe (Pats reporter) have said which is the talk there is Caleb is the clear #1.  Maye the clear #2.  Daniels the clear #3.  They were surprised a little (though those 2 like Maye better) that Daniels didn't have more momentum with personnel guys to go #2 referencing all the momentum he has with the draft media.

 

B.  They referenced talking to a bunch of people around teams and that Daniels only had 2 teams rated him ahead of Maye.  I gather from that comment they talked to a lot of people to say just 2.  And one of those 2 teams they hinted was the Raiders and the other was a team out of the top 10.

 

C.  They heard Washington is either picking 2 or trading up to 1, they aren't trading down.  They didn't rule out trading for Caleb and the Bears taking a Qb at #2, i am gathering Maye.  But they don't think the Bears will trade the pick but though Washington will likely give it a shot to trade up.

 

D.  Justin Fields will be traded.  And the trade market is dissappointing so far -- whatever that means

 

E.  They hear Bowers likely drops out of the top 10

 

F.  NE might trade down from 3

 

G.  Tampa likely secures their top FAs -- Evans and Mayfield

 

 

Add to this DJ just said on the NFLN combine coverage that Maye has been interviewing really well.  Teams like him and how he handles himself.

[mac8887]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I watched one college game this season, it was the Michigan vs. Ohio State game.  

 

McCarthy went 16/20 for 171 yards.  I had family over who live in Ann Arbor and are huge Michigan fans.  Like, they bleed blue.

 

Somewhere around the second quarter I turned to them and said, "McCarthy is a good college QB and is not going to make it in the pros."

 

I might be wrong.  But I watch the games with ONLY an NFL eye, because I don't watch college football.  What I saw was massively unimpressive when compared to what QBs have to do on Sundays. 

So you watched him go 16 for 20 for 171 yards against one of the best teams in the country without throwing an interception and getting the win, and your take is that is massively unimpressive? That’s nearly an 80% completion rate against one of the best teams in the country.

 

[illone]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The bolded part is all pure speculation though. That's why McCarthy is such a hard guy to really evaluate. Sure, he has some good traits, but it's not like he's some physical specimen monster who has insane upside but was never unleashed. For all we know, being a game manager is mostly what he'd be best at in the NFL as well. With such a small sample size it's just impossible to know whether he's a guy who can carry a team with his arm. It's a pretty risky bet for a top 5 pick.

 

The entire draft process is speculation, so I agree.

 

Also agree that JJ is a hard guy to evaluate. You're drafting a wild card. 

 

I watched him all year long and I wanted to hate him, I really did. But he kept beating teams on 3rd down, and when the game was on the line on the biggest stages, he delivered. That's why I believe he is worth the risk. 

[mac8887]

Just now, illone said:

 

The entire draft process is speculation, so I agree.

 

Also agree that JJ is a hard guy to evaluate. You're drafting a wild card. 

 

I watched him all year long and I wanted to hate him, I really did. But he kept beating teams on 3rd down, and when the game was on the line on the biggest stages, he delivered. That's why I believe he is worth the risk. 

Clutch is a gene

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

You are no professor. 

This hurts.

[illone]

17 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

Even if we did want Wilson, why would he want to come here? To be a punching bag and mentor for our face of the franchise #2 pick to replace him?

 

Just doesn't sound realistic on either side. 

 

 

I hate the wilson stuff, I really do. I cringe in horror when I hear him linked to Washington.

 

However, the one area where it might make sense is salary.

 

He has a scrooge mcduck salary for the next two years so he can go somewhere for Vet Min just to stick it to Denver, so in that regard I think he will find suitors.

[The Consigliere]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

My thing is, if hes that good, why not unleash him? I know Michigan had a great run game and D but a great passing game makes everything much easier. 

Especially when Harbaugh used Luck. Luck threw 776 passes his last two years, JJ threw 654. It's just odd. If he thought JJ was such a stud, why'ers there basically a 125 pass difference between them in two years combined? It's odd. 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, mac8887 said:

First things first, I’m not appealing to people on twitter, I don’t even have twitter. second this is coming from people that have actually played in the league, coached in the league, or were in some front office role. And finally, he has spent 3 years under the tutilge of one of the best coaches in football, not just in college, but in the pros as well. Harbaugh was able to take a 49er team, led by Colin Kapernick to a Super Bowl. Now I’ve never played in the nfl, so the smartest thing I could do is appeal to others who have.

 

But if your asking me what traits he probably gained from playing under Harbaugh in a more prostyle offense than the rest is

 

1. The ability to control a huddle and call the plays similarly to how other coaches around the NFL would use. Harbaugh coming back to coach college while running a prostyle offense, would be bringing pro style verbiage with him, and even though JJ wasn’t aloud to change protections and call hots, I’m sure it’s something that he has discussed with Harbaugh and at least had someone on staff that knew the ins and outs of a prostyle offense that he could lean on for information. They have been together 3 years, and he’s been starting qb for 2, I’m sure he’s soaked in as much knowledge as he possibly could of.

 

2. Cadence, one benefit of his offense that he ran is that they didn’t start every play with a clap of a hand. And while most will laugh at this and deem it unimportant, the importance of cadence has been discussed by many QBs, and during this last season during a pregame show, they had many QBs and past QBs including Eli, Peyton, Rodgers, and Dak discussing how important having good cadence really is. They also discussed how it isn’t easy to learn, it’s something that needs to be done perfectly every play to give the line the best chance at a good jump.
 

3. Though you degrade starting from behind center, and knowing how to properly do it, it’s actually very important. Not only does it give teams that option, it also keeps teams from having to run out of the pistol or shotgun in short yardage situations.

On top of that it helps a qb with his dropback footwork, it helps a qb learn to maneuver in the pocket, it helps the qb learn to plant and throw because there is not enough room or time to continue backing up out of the pocket to get around the outside to avoid pressure. How many times do you see these passers that can’t take snaps under center, drifting farther and farther back in the pocket until they are 12 yards behind LOS, both Caleb, Drake, and especially Sam Howell struggle severely with this.

Id argue it helps to build pocket awareness as well because you are already starting so close to the guys trying to sack you, at the very least at least you would be seeing the field and the pocket in a different way than someone who doesn’t take snaps from behind center, and that’s repitition experience that is impossible to teach without physically doing it.

 

4. His ability to feel comfortable in a muddied pocket, just by taking more reps in the pocket from behind center, he will already be used to the heavy pressure coming up the middle between the tackles. Some will say he had a great line, and that is true, being closer to the line of scrimmage due to playing under center, starts the play closer and ends the play closer to the LOS, thus making him closer to the guys trying to sack him

 

5. He will be more used to scanning the field while being closer to the line of scrimmage, and be more prepared to manipulate the pocket because of all the looks he has seen from the situations that he actually gained experience from while playing from behind center, that the others don’t have as much of. He will be more used to sliding up, left, or right, to open up throwing lanes because starting from behind center pretty much rules out an escape out of the back door by drifting really far back and getting around the defensive ends that way. 

Most of this is not that particular to playing under center—and the defensive looks you get playing from under center are not more difficult/akin to NFL looks, they’re actually easier than what the defense gives you when you throw from shotgun almost 70% of the time (we all made this point about EB making Howell’s life harder a million times this season). But I appreciate you at least answering the question and putting into words what it means to you for McCarthy to be a “pro style” guy. We don’t agree on most of it, but I appreciate the good faith answer. 

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

Especially when Harbaugh used Luck. Luck threw 776 passes his last two years, JJ threw 654. It's just odd. If he thought JJ was such a stud, why'ers there basically a 125 pass difference between them in two years combined? It's odd. 

I don’t think anyone in here is comparing JJ to Andrew Luck, Luck was truly generational. Also Stanford didn’t have the defense or offensive line Michigan had, and playing in the PAC 12, a lot of those games turn into shoot outs. Plus 125 isn’t that big, Eric Bienemy can make that up in 2 games

[mh86]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I watched one college game this season, it was the Michigan vs. Ohio State game.  

 

McCarthy went 16/20 for 171 yards.  I had family over who live in Ann Arbor and are huge Michigan fans.  Like, they bleed blue.

 

Somewhere around the second quarter I turned to them and said, "McCarthy is a good college QB and is not going to make it in the pros."

 

I might be wrong.  But I watch the games with ONLY an NFL eye, because I don't watch college football.  What I saw was massively unimpressive when compared to what QBs have to do on Sundays. 

Likewise, I watched that game and was equally unimpressed. Also, a close friend of mine is a huge Michigan fan, as well as a Vikings fan, and he doesn’t even want him anywhere near his team.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

Is there anyone that hasn't been a star this week in interviews? 😂😂

 

 

 

[Coopskin44]

37 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

I hate the wilson stuff, I really do. I cringe in horror when I hear him linked to Washington.

 

However, the one area where it might make sense is salary.

 

He has a scrooge mcduck salary for the next two years so he can go somewhere for Vet Min just to stick it to Denver, so in that regard I think he will find suitors.    
 

           I agree but Wilson’s mom is hot!So yes bring him in.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Is there anyone that hasn't been a star this week in interviews? 😂😂

 

 

 

Or thrown passes in the lobby?

 

It’s massively rare to find anybody say anything bad about a prospect.  It happens but very very very rarely.

[clskinsfan]

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Peters in that Grant interview flat out said they'd be considering some high end FAs and bargain basement FAs, too.

 

I get the rhetoric about we want to build in the draft and not via FA.  Who doesn't say that?  Also, hey we aren't going to go nuts and spend big in FA.  Also most say that, too

 

But I get the sense at a minimum they will play it medium in FA. 

They dont have a choice. The roster is like half full of bodies right now. They have to sign at least 25 players to reach the roster minimum. It is probably going to be the most hectic FA period in team history imo. 

[Conn]

57 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

JJ McCarthy is dynamite on third down. He was better on third down than any other quarterback in the country this last year.

This is where playing under center for a great running team that stays ahead of the sticks, that has a great play action passing game “hurts” him, in terms of evaluation. Yes, guys who play under center for a stacked team that is able to approach 3rd down as something other than an obvious passing down—they have it much easier. He should have been otherworldly productive on 3rd down in that situation. QB’s who play mostly from the gun on bad teams where 3rd down is usually an obvious passing down (and far more often it’s 3rd and 5+) have it much more difficult in terms of the looks they get from the D, the pressure they receive, etc. due to the defense knowing what’s coming. 
 

It would absolutely tank JJ’s eval if he wasn’t extremely productive on 3rd down, given that context. You’re double counting it in your own evaluation imo. 

[NYSkins21]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Fair enough. The number of holes just feels daunting on both sides of the ball

That’s where we really need to “trust the process”. We’re not going to fill the entire roster this off-season.

 

I for one am going to enjoy this entire process. So far it’s been the beginning of a beautiful piece of artwork. I’m going to appreciate the end result knowing that I watched it all come together from scratch.

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Add to this DJ just said on the NFLN combine coverage that Maye has been interviewing really well.  Teams like him and how he handles himself.

 

 

[HigSkin]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

This one too

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, mac8887 said:

JJ McCarthy is dynamite on third down. He was better on third down than any other quarterback in the country this last year. He is also very good at evading pressure. He is also very good at throwing on the run after evading pressure he has a strong arm has great ball placement and have I mentioned how unbelievably he played on third down and while under pressure

 

his mobility and ability to make plays off, schedule project him to be more than just a game manager at the next level. That is why he is the QB that is climbing up all the draft boards right now. 

 

 

You've used that 3rd down talking point now about 8,000 times. Do you have anything else? The rest of what you wrote is basically just opinion.

 

Again, there's zero way to know if he can do more at the next level, because he was on an insanely stacked team and never had to do more even at the college level. Being 100% sure about something like that is ludicrous.

[mac8887]

12 minutes ago, Conn said:

This is where playing under center for a great running team that stays ahead of the sticks, that has a great play action passing game “hurts” him, in terms of evaluation. Yes, guys who play under center for a stacked team that is able to approach 3rd down as something other than an obvious passing down—they have it much easier. He should have been otherworldly productive on 3rd down in that situation. QB’s who play mostly from the gun on bad teams where 3rd down is usually an obvious passing down (and far more often it’s 3rd and 5+) have it much more difficult in terms of the looks they get from the D, the pressure they receive, etc. due to the defense knowing what’s coming. 
 

It would absolutely tank JJ’s eval if he wasn’t extremely productive on 3rd down, given that context. You’re double counting it in your own evaluation imo. 

He was other worldly he was like 75% with 5 tds to 0 ints. It’s surprising that you are bashing him for doing something others can’t do, playing under center, and expect more from him than all of the other QBs, each of which had better receivers. All of which, JJ still excelled at. Other than having a better online, why is it fair to have to grade him on a higher scale?