The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

2 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Yeah I don't think I move Howell for a 4th.  If you can somehow get a person you think can start for the first 8 games while the rookie sits and learns, then grab em and you can deal Howell, but without that, you keep Howell and don't move him for less than a 2nd probably (which no one will pay).

 

Yeah absolutely nobody will give us a 2nd. 

 

So are you assuming Howell will start 8 games this season and the rookie sit behind him for half the season?

 

Howell only has 2 years left on his rookie contract and if he doesn't play this season his value drops to basically nothing. 

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 minutes ago, dunfer said:

id try to get something extra in 2025, but if we go qb at 2 and dont trade down id be welcome to negotiate any trades. wed need to keep jacoby though

My though is I'd ask for less now but ask for a conditional pick in two years. If he does almost nothing, it'd be a 7th, but if he played a lot and really played well it would go a lot higher. 

[Warhead36]

I'd happily trade Howell for a 4th. We don't need two young developmental QBs and I don't like the Maye/Howell friendship dynamic. Could make things awkward in the meeting rooms.

[DogofWar1]

14 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Yeah absolutely nobody will give us a 2nd. 

 

So are you assuming Howell will start 8 games this season and the rookie sit behind him for half the season?

 

Howell only has 2 years left on his rookie contract and if he doesn't play this season his value drops to basically nothing. 

More or less.

 

I want someone on staff who we can potentially have start for a chunk of the first season while we prep and train the new guy.  Howell is the obvious guy there, since he's already under a cheap contract.

 

If Maye/Daniels/mystery 3rd person comes in and blows everyone away and wins the starting job by a mile, then fair enough, start the new guy, but there's value in at least having the option of letting the new guy ease into it.

[Dirt]

Which first round QBs, let alone top 3 picks,  have sat their first year in like, decades?  Rodgers and Love?  GB does their own thing lol.  Actually good old Jason Candle sat a year I think?   I'm sure I'm missing another or two, just saying, we're getting bored if we're having that discussion.  #2 overall is having the offense...especially our new offense under new coaches..built around him and he's starting.  

[DiscoBob]

27 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I would normally find a witty animated gif to say "yeah - no."  But I'm going to be lazy and just say, "yeah - no."  Pretend there is a witty animated gif here.  

 

I'm sorry @Voice_of_Reason I try to be a reasonable poster, but if you can't "gif me back" I'm gonna have to ignore your post.... sorry union rules

 

We have standards to uphold around here 🤷

 

 

Edited February 19 by DiscoBob

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, Dirt said:

Which first round QBs, let alone top 3 picks,  have sat their first year in like, decades?  Rodgers and Love?  GB does their own thing lol.  Actually good old Jason Candle sat a year I think?   I'm sure I'm missing another or two, just saying, we're getting bored if we're having that discussion.  #2 overall is having the offense...especially our new offense under new coaches..built around him and he's starting.  

And how many of those QBs flopped? Or took years and change of scenery to develop into anything worthwhile?

 

But I guess getting nothing out of that QB is fine because "HE HAS TO PLAY" for whatever nonsense reason. 

[method man]

19 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Yeah absolutely nobody will give us a 2nd. 

 

So are you assuming Howell will start 8 games this season and the rookie sit behind him for half the season?

 

Howell only has 2 years left on his rookie contract and if he doesn't play this season his value drops to basically nothing. 

 

If Howell can give you solid backup level play, you are saving a few mil each of those two years to use elsewhere. 

[wit33]

40 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Crazy stat…

 

 

How crazy is this really? Any comparative analysis provided? 

[method man]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Because Kingsbury said, rather adamantly, he is not running the Air Raid offense here?

 

 

 

First off, do you see him doing a complete 180 from the way he has done offense so far? Probably not and he is likely mixing Air Raid concepts with pro concepts, which still means Sam has a base to start from in this hypothetical discussion. The names thrown around were Tannehill and Wilson. The first guy went on the record and poo pooed the idea of mentoring Willis. The second guy is a well known diva. Could be a great mentor but seems unlikely

[DogofWar1]

3 minutes ago, Dirt said:

Which first round QBs, let alone top 3 picks,  have sat their first year in like, decades?  Rodgers and Love?  GB does their own thing lol.  Actually good old Jason Candle sat a year I think?   I'm sure I'm missing another or two, just saying, we're getting bored if we're having that discussion.  #2 overall is having the offense...especially our new offense under new coaches..built around him and he's starting.  

 

I mean, in fairness, the teams picking 1-3 tend to not be very good and are drafting a QB out of desperate need.  It being the norm that QBs start year 1 doesn't make it the optimal choice.

 

Mahomes sat pretty much the first whole season, Jackson sat roughly half of one, Allen sat for like 5 games, Goff sat for half a season, Tua came in week 6.

 

Ultimately, you want them to come in ready, and not push them out the gate too early.  If Maye/Daniels are looking ready for prime time immediately, run em, but the CJ Stroud's of the world are pretty few and far between.

[mh86]

10 minutes ago, wit33 said:

How crazy is this really? Any comparative analysis provided? 

No clue. Wasn’t one of the knocks on Haskins that he had some crazy high percent of his yardage and completion percentage come from simple mesh concepts? Probably just how they ran the offense for Daniels

 

Edited February 19 by mh86

[dunfer]

Just now, DogofWar1 said:

 

I mean, in fairness, the teams picking 1-3 tend to not be very good and are drafting a QB out of desperate need.  It being the norm that QBs start year 1 doesn't make it the optimal choice.

 

Mahomes sat pretty much the first whole season, Jackson sat roughly half of one, Allen sat for like 5 games, Goff sat for half a season, Tua came in week 6.

 

Ultimately, you want them to come in ready, and not push them out the gate too early.  If Maye/Daniels are looking ready for prime time immediately, run em, but the CJ Stroud's of the world are pretty few and far between.

yeah sitting a guy when your team and oline is **** isnt a bad thing

[SkinsFan70s]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

They don’t have a QB. They are in a position to get one in a draft that has 3 blue chip prospects and next years draft looks much weaker at QB.

 

Just like us it’s really really unlikely they trade back. 

I honestly don't buy this  Bro. First it is too early and then every year, there are can't miss QB prospects and no matter the situation, a QB-needy team trades up to take them. I am sure there will be another can't miss, top-10 QB when it's all said and done, but I am not an expert so there is that 😂

[DogofWar1]

Just now, dunfer said:

yeah sitting a guy when your team and oline is **** isnt a bad thing

well hopefully our oline improves between now and opening day, haha.

 

There's some solid OL talent out there this draft, wouldn't be surprised if we went OL on both our 2nds and got solid dudes.

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't have a strong opinion on keeping Howell or not, I'd lean towards keepig him.  I'd think they could get a 4th. 

[ThatNFLChick]

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

How crazy is this really? Any comparative analysis provided? 

 

I looked for some, couldn't find it but I will say I remember several comments about Burrow - can't find numbers. The 2023 LSU offensive coordinator ran a very similar system to the 2019 LSU offense Burrow ran with Joe Brady (pro style RPO with WCO passing concepts). 

 

It's this play

 

 

Edited February 20 by ThatNFLChick

[dunfer]

3 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

well hopefully our oline improves between now and opening day, haha.

 

There's some solid OL talent out there this draft, wouldn't be surprised if we went OL on both our 2nds and got solid dudes.

its kind of a mulligan to have sam to put out at the beginning of the season to see how the line works out.

[clskinsfan]

If you can get a 4th for Sam I would take it. The last thing a young QB needs is last years starter breathing down his neck. Although something tells me that as much of a QB controversy town we are nobody is gonna be calling for Sam to come into a game. The main reason I would take the 4th is his trade value is as high as its gonna be right now. It will only go down from here imo. 

[CTskin]

I’m in no rush to move off of Howell for a 4th. He showed more upside this past season than most backups and is here at a much cheaper price.

 

The only way I’d green light the trade if it’s draft day and we make the move in order to land a specific player… but to trade an asset for an unknown player at the 150th pick who's, statistically, unlikely to crack the starting lineup is a poor move.

 

i was a fan of biennemy coming in, but it’s easy to say now his system did not work. (I would have liked to have seen it run behind a half-decent OL, but that’s for another thread). Point is, the talent on this team is likely going to be much better than last year and Sam may just be better than most believe.

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

If you can get a 4th for Sam I would take it. The last thing a young QB needs is last years starter breathing down his neck. Although something tells me that as much of a QB controversy town we are nobody is gonna be calling for Sam to come into a game. The main reason I would take the 4th is his trade value is as high as its gonna be right now. It will only go down from here imo. 

 

Thats my thought, his value will only go down from here and getting a 4th for a 5th round pick would be ideal. It is HIGHLY unlikely his value will increase and if we're not starting him we should get something for him. He only has 2 years left on his rookie contract so we're not saving that much. 

 

Also some Kirk stuff that may effect FA for everyone:

 

 

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Thats my thought, his value will only go down from here and getting a 4th for a 5th round pick would be ideal. It is HIGHLY unlikely his value will increase and if we're not starting him we should get something for him. He only has 2 years left on his rookie contract so we're not saving that much. 

 

Also some Kirk stuff that may effect FA for everyone:

 

 

If we could get a 4th for sam, that would be amazing!!! I'd be happy!!! I'd be ok with a 6th or 7th, and use it on a late round flyer qb to develop as an emergency 3rd qb to go with our qb we draft at #2 and a veteran backup.

[DogofWar1]

Flip side on the Howell argument, he was a 5th rounder, there isn't really any real loss if we don't get value back for him and just let him go in a couple years.

 

I'd much rather get nothing and have had him around to give us flexibility (on the cheap) for our new #2 pick QB's playtime options, than send him away for a 4th or even a 3rd and then need to bring in a different veteran who will cost more, or be forced to start the #2 pick when he might not be fully ready immediately.

 

I suppose if the veteran we brought in we planned to use as a mentor on top of a potential early season starter, then sure, go ahead move Howell for whatever, since I assume Howell can't do that.

[HTTRDynasty]

Thought this was interesting. Super impressive QB class from an analytics perspective. 

 

 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Yeah absolutely nobody will give us a 2nd. 

 

So are you assuming Howell will start 8 games this season and the rookie sit behind him for half the season?

 

Howell only has 2 years left on his rookie contract and if he doesn't play this season his value drops to basically nothing. 

 You bring a Vet in or Brissett 10mil a year for 2 years or more and trade Howell.  Or Howell and his rookie contract for 2 years.  What if he plays all 17?