The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

QBs with the sack gene make Olines look way way worse than what they are. For years, the narrative in Seattle was that they were negligent for not doing more to build their line (and tbf, they didn’t do a lot) but looking back on what we know about Russell Wilson, he was likely the main driver bc he’s had that issue every year of his career basically. 
 

Perfect timing with this tweet btw. Sums up this entire debate quite well. Fan has no idea what he’s seeing and blames PFF:

Every week, I yell “get rid of it” and “let it go” multiple times at my screen.  I’m well aware that he has a tendency to hold the ball too long and take a coverage sack as opposed to sending it into a Gatorade cooler.  I actually have to help my wife understand who is at fault with every sack, and last week for example - a few were definitely all Sam.  The Dupree sack you posted is a good example of a sack where the tackle ran him up field, Dupree made a play and Sam walked right into it.  But that’s not the bulk of the sacks.  Sam isn’t approaching historic like sack #’s on his own.  This line freaking stinks running or pass blocking.  Beyond that EB could certainly do more to alleviate the issues with both Howell and the line.  @Skinsinparadise has made this point numerous times but it can’t be said enough, if you’ve got a QB whose primary weakness is holding the ball too long - you’ve got to put horses in front of him and try to mask the weakness with scheme and playcalling.  

[Captain Wiggles]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Has he made one single play in three years in the league?

 

Outside of the Titans game last year he hasn't really done much. Guess opponents need to call him out in order for him to succeed. No clue how he can make a one handed td grab vs the Titans then drop practically everything else thrown his way against everyone else. 😒

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I can answer this now. No.

 

Sit still and see if Penix drops or take BPA (with a heavy weight to OT).

 

Even if Penix is there I may go OT but we have to see how the year plays out.

 

Protect the QB. 

 

Penix with his two torn ACLs I gather will drop so I gather he'd be in range of wherever we pick.  I think Howell if he keeps improving is who they will ride with next season.  But will see.  

[Stihl89]

Hard Pass on Penix. Hard pass on Bo for the same reason. The age is too much of an outlier for these guy. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Stihl89 said:

Hard Pass on Penix. Hard pass on Bo for the same reason. The age is too much of an outlier for these guy. 

So there are no QBs we can draft in the first. Can you end your crusade now?

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, Stihl89 said:

Hard Pass on Penix. Hard pass on Bo for the same reason. The age is too much of an outlier for these guy. 

 

Penix is 6 month older than Howell and Bo Nix is 9 months older than Howell.   I think they are decent prospects, but unlike Caleb Williams and Drake Maye I don't think they are in a better tier of QB prospects than Howell at this point.  I'll roll with the one I know. 

 

[MrJL]

4 hours ago, oraphus said:

yes.. its no so much the weight.. its how he is built. Big hips, strong and muscular lower body. it allows him to absorb hits and tackles with less damage  (sort like Cooley used to)

He's  taking a lot of sacks but he's  not getting bulldozed and he's  not going down in the middle of his throwing motion. I feel like a lot of the time he's  tackled like a running back

[Stihl89]

35 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

Penix is 6 month older than Howell and Bo Nix is 9 months older than Howell.   I think they are decent prospects, but unlike Caleb Williams and Drake Maye I don't think they are in a better tier of QB prospects than Howell at this point.  I'll roll with the one I know. 

 

More of hes been in College for forever. Given how long hes been in College he should be dominating. 

[zCommander]

6 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Are you implying Sam is built like a linebacker ? 

 

From his high school report....

 

Thick, stocky build carrying over 220 pounds on a 6-foot-1 frame. Sturdy base and converts power from his lower body into his passes. Has a plus arm with ability to drive the ball downfield with zip. Highly creative player who thrives making improvisational plays outside of structure with the skill to make difficult off-platform throws. Presents a run threat that compliments his downfield passing ability. Tough and plays with an edge. Not overly fast but has good instincts and feel to go with solid power as a runner. An all-state baseball player and all around talented athlete who also plays linebacker at times. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[zCommander]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

[srtman04]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

HARD Mother****ing pass......

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There is more chance of you playing QB for us than Kirk being brought back.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

4 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

From his high school report....

 

Thick, stocky build carrying over 220 pounds on a 6-foot-1 frame. Sturdy base and converts power from his lower body into his passes. Has a plus arm with ability to drive the ball downfield with zip. Highly creative player who thrives making improvisational plays outside of structure with the skill to make difficult off-platform throws. Presents a run threat that compliments his downfield passing ability. Tough and plays with an edge. Not overly fast but has good instincts and feel to go with solid power as a runner. An all-state baseball player and all around talented athlete who also plays linebacker at times. 

Ok guys 

 

Let’s be sure to grab a 6’1, 220 lb LB next April. I’m sure that’ll solve our problems lol 

 

You got it. This thread is a trip sometimes. I surrender this entire debate lol 

Edited October 19, 2023 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Ok guys 

 

Let’s be sure to grab a 6’1, 220 lb LB next April. I’m sure that’ll solve our problems lol 

 

You got it. This thread is a trip sometimes. I surrender this entire debate lol 

Well, Pace is 5-10 230…

[Thinking Skins]

I feel so bad because yesterday I let myself get dragged into the Howell smut going around. I guess its no surprise I believe in this guy, but I've been on his team since the draft (and Ridder, but Howell more). So its great to see this season progressing. 

 

Now, if we backtrack, most people - fans, NFL pundits, radio hosts, etc, - expected this team to be carried by its defense and its running game. Its still the lead in to the BMitch and JP show. Sheehan spent all offseason talking about how this was an ELITE defense and with just average QB play, we're a playoff team. I didn't believe in the defense as much because I felt like we were putting a lot of hope in Young being good again, and this defense looking stout against good teams (not just Houston or Atlanta last year).

 

But I did/do expect the running game to come together. I think its great that our passing game is working so well because as it grows and we look more like Philly in the eary 2000s, I think we have a nice set of backs right now that are similar to what they had in their rotation. 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Sam is succeeding despite bad protections, bad play designs, bad play calling and no run game. Outside of Terry and Samuels, bad weapons, too. 

 

There is no way to watch him and think he's not worth building around.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, MartinC said:

There is more chance of you playing QB for us than Kirk being brought back.

 

Thanks, my son is trying to make the high school team so I've been throwing the ball with him just about everyday in the backyard, I am actually not bad.   My secret sauce is actually mobility, I ran track in my younger years, I still got some speed, if Wylie for example whiffs on a tackle I could possible dodge some of the pass rushers headed my way.  I doubt I avoid Parsons though, he's insanely fast but back in my heyday maybe I could.  Bieniemy would have to ease me in more than he's done with Sam, not sure about throwing the ball 40-50 times a game, among other things my arm would get sore. 

 

As for Kirk I just put it up because I knew it would drive some crazy.   But it might not be that crazy far fetched if Sam struggles and Ron stays.  i don't expect either thing to happen though.  Ron actually talked to Minny about trading Kirk the previous off season (not the last off season)

Edited October 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

if Wylie for example whiffs on a tackle I could possible dodge some of the pass rushers headed my way.  

 

Everyone wants to throw a ball around and can hit some nice passes. I wasn't the best pure passer - didn't have a very strong arm (but I was accurate). There were other QBs who looked better than me in practice in a red (don't hit) jersey. But the thing about playing QB is that to make the plays that are there in a game sometimes you have to just take the hit - you know its coming but you have to stand in there. At that point a lot less people want to play QB 🙂

[DWinzit]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I feel like Howell is a young Kirk with more potential.

I don't see any reason to throw money at him and remove Sam from the field where he can continue to progress

I wish we had drafted Tyson Bagent in the 7th round and had him on the practice squad this year. (Yes I also wanted Pace in the 7th but honestly, I would have taken Pace in the 6th)

[Koolblue13]

44 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I feel like Howell is a young Kirk with more potential.

I don't see any reason to throw money at him and remove Sam from the field where he can continue to progress

I wish we had drafted Tyson Bagent in the 7th round and had him on the practice squad this year. (Yes I also wanted Pace in the 7th but honestly, I would have taken Pace in the 6th)

Can't wait to see my boy start this week. I think he's gonna light it up.

[Skinsinparadise]

translation, I pushed to sign Wylie. I am not owning to that as a mistake especially because I know the pesky media sees it as a mistake, I don't care if we lose a game to make the point that Wylie is fine.

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[zCommander]

12 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Ok guys 

 

Let’s be sure to grab a 6’1, 220 lb LB next April. I’m sure that’ll solve our problems lol 

 

You got it. This thread is a trip sometimes. I surrender this entire debate lol 

 

That's a great idea. Get a LB that knows how to play the QB position too and is used to taking hits and shaking them off. Oh wait, nevermind, we already have Sam who also has played the LB position in the past.  

 

Your debate was based on the fact that Sam is responsible for the majority of the sacks. Everyone here knows he does hold on to the ball longer than needs to be but not that majority of the sacks are on him though. Your argument is we have a good OL, debatable. But, when Sam does have time to throw the OL is rated above avg. So that should tell you something.

 

I get it, it's in his DNA and that is what he did in college too. He likes to hold on to the ball longer to get a bigger payday out of it. He is not scared to take a hit since his body frame is built like a mac truck, or a LB, due to his genes. He is young and can take a hit and keep on ticking. But as he ages he won't be able to do that. So if Sam is back next year, and I hope he is, the FO needs to do everything to get him a decent and above avg. OL. That's is how I feel. Still lot of the season is left and I would like to see Sam improving and throwing the ball away to live to play the next down. He is the best QB we have had since kirk. He can be a franchise QB if he wants to be. 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by zCommander

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

52 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Can't wait to see my boy start this week. I think he's gonna light it up.

Rooting for the kid. Good kid.  His dad used to lifeguard at my neighborhood pool.  Played for my alma mater.  All the rage locally.

 

But…

 

He holds the ball too long.  If they don’t draw him up plays that get the ball out of his hands quickly, it’s going to be a problem.

 

Where have we heard that one before?

[goskins10]

Pretty good breakdown. Focus is on what he did right. Did not break down the mistakes. But he did a lot more right than it seems. Those 2 big drops were really bad. 

 

Again, being at the game the sacks were primarily on him. But he does a lot right and I truly believe can be coached and schemed to reduce the sacks. But at least he is not throwing picks in bunches. That can be the alternative to sacks sometimes. Just a thought.