The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[SkinsFTW]

5 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Interesting.   Do you know the difference in methodology between PFF and ESPN QBR?    Because and 84 QBR Is very good and 56 PFF grade is below average.  

 

 

He had an Int and lost a fumble and had 2 TD's. I have no idea how that's an 84. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Theres 2 dudes with a z in there name and the other one is that miserable guy

 

are you doing your annoying thing or being serious?

 

you're not being serious.

That still doesn’t clear things up lol…who’s the other “z” guy? What does Payne’s father have to do with anything? Why are we going down a dark alley? Why am I even included?…my World War Z explanation made more sense lol.

[CapsSkins]

I, for one, am ready to see Wentz pull a Reverse Nick Foles and lead this team to a Super Bowl!

 

Quick release, play action, threatening all levels of the field and letting the run game do its thing with a legitimately good defense playing complementary football! 
 

Commies Country, let’s ride!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I, for one, am ready to see Wentz pull a Reverse Nick Foles and lead this team to a Super Bowl!

 

Quick release, play action, threatening all levels of the field and letting the run game do its thing with a legitimately good defense playing complementary football! 
 

Commies Country, let’s ride!

I (half jokingly) made the same comment about Wentz coming off the bench and leading the team to the Super Bowl about *47 pages ago lol…when he was inserted into the game yesterday I literally laughed and said “Oh ****, it’s happening” lol…

Edited December 25, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't mind signing veterans but agree with the first part of the point below until you find that guy keep swinging

 

The Howie Roseman strategy, who tried everything, trades, FAs, draft picks, keep swinging.  Don't lament each swing, expect misses but don't double down on a miss, swing again

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Paulsen suggested the QB can kick in on it.   It would be odd if he couldn't considering he has the best view of it.

 

I am listening to Paulsen's take of yesterday.  He criticized Turner some.  He also said to quote him the quarterback limits his play calling.  Among other things, he talks about Turner's scheme the way it works best is limited by Heinicke's inability to stretch the field.  He also said some of their shortcoming in short yardage situations is this offense is run out of the gun.  So the rare times Heinicke is under center defenses are clued that the run is on its way.  

 

Teams with short QBs like Taylor almost exclusively play out of the gun, helps the QB see over their O line.

 

You have to read between the lines when Paulsen talks about Turner.    Hoffman is not a fan.

 

Why can't you bootleg TH from under center?    We did it once Yesterday....resulted in a 25 yard gain to Dotson.   I'm not buying that We run out of the gun because of TH.....I think we were in the gun mostly with Wentz as well.   

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, FLSkinz83 said:

 

You have to read between the lines when Paulsen talks about Turner.    Hoffman is not a fan.

 

 

It's not even a little hard to notice Paulsen and Cooley think very little of Heinicke.  It's not hard to pick up that they think the #1 problem with this offense is Taylor.  

 

It's not hard to pick up that they'd laugh at the idea of surround Taylor with a better supporting cast and you'd find that he might be the guy.  Cooley flat out said that if you amped up Taylor's supporting cast, it wouldn't matter, Taylor is who Taylor is, and he said that as a shot.  Cooley also said that if you swap Daniel Jones for Heinicke with this exact roster, he thinks they can push for a SB.

 

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I (half jokingly) made the same comment about Wentz coming off the bench and leading the team to the Super Bowl about *47 pages ago lol…when he was inserted into the game yesterday I literally laughed and said “Oh ****, it’s happening” lol…

Yeah I emphatically called for Wentz to start after the bye following the first Giants game.

 

I’m legitimately excited to see how he does with a better understanding of the system, Turner with a legitimate identity for the offense, and the defense playing better ball.

 

Some of the veteran coaches who have been interviewed like Jay Gruden have said how it legitimately takes time for QBs to learn a new system and guys like Alex Smith have said Scott’s system isn’t exactly easy to pick up.

 

I’m not saying anything is guaranteed, but why is it inconceivable that Wentz could look a lot better this time around? It would be wonderful if he plays well enough to bring back at a reduced cap hit.

[FLSkinz83]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's not even a little hard to notice Paulsen and Cooley think very little of Heinicke.  It's not hard to pick up that they think the #1 problem with this offense is Taylor.  

 

It's not hard to pick up that they'd laugh at the idea of surround Taylor with a better supporting cast and you'd find that he might be the guy.  Cooley flat out said that if you amped up Taylor's supporting cast, it wouldn't matter, Taylor is who Taylor is, and he said that as a shot.  Cooley also said that if you swap Daniel Jones for Heinicke with this exact roster, he thinks they can push for a SB.

 

 

I'd take Daniel Jones over TH any day

[Warhead36]

When Daniel Jones isn't playing against us he's pretty mediocre. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Can’t speak for VoR, but for me - I’d be fine with him as a backup.  The type of backup that immediately concedes the position back to the starter the moment the starter is healthy, no matter the record.  No more illusions of grandeur for an extended stay.  

I don't want him on the team.  At all.  

 

And I'll tell you why: you theoretically want your backup to have at least a similar skillset to your starter so the entire offense doesn't have to change entirely when the backup comes in.

 

TH can't run a pass-first offense, can't really stretch the field on play action, and doesn't use his legs.  The only way for the offense to be competent with TH is to change the entire offense to a 40-50 run a game, everything near the LOS, limited mess.  

 

If we have to do that, they need to coach up Howell to be able to do it.  I have no idea if Howell can be a good starter.  But he should be at least able to do that.  

 

And theoretically, he would be able to do more based on the fact he is less limited physically.  

 

Also, as long as he's here, if they win a game or two with him as the backup even if he's not the reason, his likability is going to cause trouble going back to whoever the starter is.

 

He needs gone.  I hope he gets a good deal elsewhere.  I do not wish ill on the guy. But I don't want him here.  At all.  In any way.  

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I'd take Daniel Jones over TH any day

You're comparing a starter to a backup.  You should take a starter over a backup.  

[Mooka]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't mind signing veterans but agree with the first part of the point below until you find that guy keep swinging

 

The Howie Roseman strategy, who tried everything, trades, FAs, draft picks, keep swinging.  Don't lament each swing, expect misses but don't double down on a miss, swing again

 

 

 

Absolutely. 

 

We drafted Cousins in the same year as RG3.

 

On paper that was 3 firsts, a second and a fourth all spent on QBs in 1 draft. 

[FLSkinz83]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

When Daniel Jones isn't playing against us he's pretty mediocre. 

 

The team around him in years past has made him look mediocre.   I like his talent a lot.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't mind signing veterans but agree with the first part of the point below until you find that guy keep swinging

I agree, but it's also important to realize how many of the QBs drafted are busts. 

 

They have a good roster which needs a significant OL upgrade and a QB.  I think they will figure out the OL this off-season.  

 

QB is more difficult.  

 

But if they had Dak or Cousins, this team would be akin to the Cowboys or Vikings.  

 

They really need something to break for them.  Ideally, Wentz plays 4 or 5 more games this season and shows he's got his mojo back.  I don't think that's particularly likely, but that's the best case.

 

Absent that, they have to keep trying the veteran market, develop Howell, and keep taking shots in the draft.  

[Warhead36]

Its remarkable if you think about it. Most coaches don't survive four seasons without figuring out the QB position long term, but Rivera will. I'm not saying he deserves to be fired, he's done a good job rebuilding our team, but its just kinda crazy.

[Jumbo]

Gaslighting.

Double talk.

Talking out of both sides of your face.

Disingenuousness.

Dishonesty.

Deflection.

 

Who's posting does this describe? 🤔

 

Whether do to with ego issues or lack of self awareness or consciously serving some sort of incredibly silly message board agenda is immaterial to me. 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its remarkable if you think about it. Most coaches don't survive four seasons without figuring out the QB position long term, but Rivera will. I'm not saying he deserves to be fired, he's done a good job rebuilding our team, but its just kinda crazy.

I imagine most coaches who don’t survive 4 seasons without figuring out the QB position ended up sticking with the wrong QB for most of those seasons…and may not be contending for the playoffs in any of those seasons. I don’t know this for sure lol, just guessing.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

For as much as some posters have been adamant that this team has no shot with Wentz because all he’ll do is take a million sacks, and TH is nowhere near as bad as we’ve made him out to be…

 

 

This isn’t a call-out thread either.  I do realize it’s Christmas after all.  But again it seems these dudes leave guys like @zCommander and @FLSkinz83 just…

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It’s remarkable if you think about it. Most coaches don't survive four seasons without figuring out the QB position long term, but Rivera will. I'm not saying he deserves to be fired, he's done a good job rebuilding our team, but it’s just kinda crazy.

Yeah but it makes sense if you think about it.

 

2020: Haskins (RIP) and One-Legged Smith

2021: goes out and gets Fitzpatrick who ends his career in the first half of Week 1

2022: goes out and gets Wentz and we see how the year has played our. We’re still in playoff position mind you and the book on Wentz in DC is still being written

 

2023: TBD

 

Not like he hasn’t been trying to address the position

[Tundra scout]

3 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

So is Wentz and he has had 3 teams to prove it.  

The guy with a ring? Okie dokie 😂

[Warhead36]

22 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Yeah but it makes sense if you think about it.

 

2020: Haskins (RIP) and One-Legged Smith

2021: goes out and gets Fitzpatrick who ends his career in the first half of Week 1

2022: goes out and gets Wentz and we see how the year has played our. We’re still in playoff position mind you and the book on Wentz in DC is still being written

 

2023: TBD

 

Not like he hasn’t been trying to address the position

Yeah I know. Its just a crazy set of circumstances. I mean its been like that from day one for Rivera. Comes in and immediately the team has to change its name. Then a global pandemic hits and he can't truly evaluate his QB. Then he gets cancer. And despite all that, we've had meaningful December football all three years. 

 

By the way Tua looked bad again today. And Young looked tremendous in his return. Perhaps the tides are flipping back regarding that 2020 draft(lets just forget Herbert and Hurts exist...lolol).

[Zim489]

45 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I imagine most coaches who don’t survive 4 seasons without figuring out the QB position ended up sticking with the wrong QB for most of those seasons…and may not be contending for the playoffs in any of those seasons. I don’t know this for sure lol, just guessing.

You don’t get to stand at the plate for forever and not take swings 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Zim489

[zCommander]

26 minutes ago, Tundra scout said:

The guy with a ring? Okie dokie 😂

 

Ummm... in real life while holding the clipboard and his knee of course. Let's not take credit away from Nick Foles who made it all happen though. 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by zCommander

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Ummm... in real life while holding the clipboard and his knee of course. Let's not take credit away from Nick Foles who made it all happen though. 

 

 

So if Wentz starts the rest of the way and we won the Super Bowl (hypothetically) he gets all the credit, right? Heinicke gets none for helping the team get to the point where the playoffs are possible.

 

Just want to see if I’m following this.

[FLSkinz83]

If I recall correctly, Prior to this year, Wentz had some of the best stats in play action.   This year, he was worst in the NFL on play action statistically.