Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: 47 pages ago was only December 16th. I checked. Honestly, that's not that impressive. Now if you had said it ... 134 pages ago, on October 23rd, that would have been a lot more impressive. (Also, for the record, I never wanted to see Heinicke ever play, and even after he started winning, while I conceded you don't miss with something that's working, I never wanted to see him plan. Like ever. So I guess I wanted to see Wentz again by default. Or Howell. Or ... literally any other QB who is not infuriatingly limited.) Heinicke did what a good backup is supposed to do: keep the season from derailing while the starter is sidelined. If they make the playoffs it’s gonna be largely because of how the team played while he was starting, and he didn’t really do much during that time to keep them from winning. But these last 3 games showed his “moxie” tank was empty, even though he played well for the most part this last game. But he hasn’t overcome bad luck and bad play in like a month. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, shemp nixon said: Yep, the 49ers blitzed the hell out of Wentz. And IMO, he handled it pretty well. Looked much more in control of the O. I liked how he looked in the short amont of time, especially the play where he dodged pressure and Mahomes style shuttles a pass while in the grasp of a defender, if I recall it was in the grasp of Bosa? My big issue with him early on is he looked like a statue in the pocket, wasn't moving, looked like a sitting duck. I don't care for Wentz as any solution if he's going to be a pure pocket passer who doesn't move, not accurate enough to do it IMO. @FLSkinz83 I'll give you one more and then I'll let go of your leg on the Heinicke stuff. 😀 A. You basically suggest this morning that you will be validated that Turner and the O line are the problems not the QBs when Wentz struggles. B. Personally I am not that high on Wentz or Taylor so I think its perfectly plausible that both QBs are the issue. But to play along, what would it say if Wentz played well? Would it be the reverse -- that maybe the O line and Turner aren't the top problems with the passing game? Edited December 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Heinicke did what a good backup is supposed to do: keep the season from derailing while the starter is sidelined. If they make the playoffs it’s gonna be largely because of how the team played while he was starting, and he didn’t really do much during that time to keep them from winning. But these last 3 games showed his “moxie” tank was empty, even though he played well for the most part this last game. But he hasn’t overcome bad luck and bad play in like a month. Can’t speak for VoR, but for me - I’d be fine with him as a backup. The type of backup that immediately concedes the position back to the starter the moment the starter is healthy, no matter the record. No more illusions of grandeur for an extended stay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Can’t speak for VoR, but for me - I’d be fine with him as a backup. The type of backup that immediately concedes the position back to the starter the moment the starter is healthy, no matter the record. No more illusions of grandeur for an extended stay. Me exactly…don’t care about the new shoes after each win or what it means for him to be starting after sleeping on his sister’s couch lol…but he does seem to at least understand his role and place as a backup and appears comfortable in that role. Both he and Wentz seemed like they are team-first players. No sulking or distractions or any drama from either of them. Edited December 25, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Me exactly…don’t care about the new shoes after each win or what it means for him to be starting after sleeping on his sister’s couch lol…but he does seem to at least understand his role and place as a backup and appears comfortable in that role. Both he and Wentz seemed like they are team-first players. No sulking or distractions or any drama from either of them. You z and Darons dad should talk in a long dark alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 minute ago, FLSkinz83 said: A few points here: 1) I'm not pushing for Wentz. Maybe that's where the disconnect is here. I said TH should remain the starter based on the current situation. If you told me the pass pro would hold up, I'd def. go to Wentz. TH is taking sacks and fumbling at about the same rate as Wentz was behind a similarly pourous line. But doesn't have the possibility of really stretching the defense. The protection is going to be what it is. They need to scheme around it with a running game, play action, use tempo and get the ball out quickly. Also, if you can stretch the defense, you generally help out the pass rush. The problem is, TH can't stretch the field horizontally or vertically, isn't really using his mobility, and isn't avoiding sacks. So why stick with him? 1 minute ago, FLSkinz83 said: 2) Your view of the line play and Turner is why you're so hard on the QB play. Tuner can use something like 8 pages of his passing playbook. I agree that the last 2 weeks he's had some really difficult moments. But he is literally trying to call an offense with a QB who does nothing really well, who he's kindof stuck with, and has been dreadful the entire time he has started. So, there are some aspects I give him a pass on. Others I don't. 1 minute ago, FLSkinz83 said: On a separate note regarding the pass pro....it's not always on the line itself or even the TE blocking. Much of the problem with pass pro is on Turner. Long developing pass plays, the inability to develop an effective screen game, etc.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) Just looked at the PFF scores for yesterday They graded Heinicke as bad but not as bad as usual, 56 grade, his normal average is 49. They graded all three receivers well especially Dotson They apparently loved what they saw from Chase in that short stint, just short of a 90 which is their grade of elite play Edited December 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Me exactly…don’t care about the new shoes after each win or what it means for him to be starting after sleeping on his sister’s couch lol…but he does seem to at least understand his role and place as a backup and appears comfortable in that role. Both he and Wentz seemed like they are team-first players. No sulking or distractions or any drama from either of them. I’m just not sure it’s possible because of his locker room status, which makes him a distraction in my mind. But who knows, perhaps this latest stint has solidified that he should never, ever at any point be taken seriously as option #1. It also depends for me as to what our QB room looks like next season, as if Howell isn’t starting - I’d likely prefer him as the backup, sight unseen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: You z and Darons dad should talk in a long dark alley. I have no idea what that means lol… 5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: They apparently loved what they saw from Chase in that short stint, just short of a 90 which is their grade of elite play 👍👍👍👍 Edited December 25, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) If the twinkie that John McLane bit into in nakatomi plaza was around to this day it still wouldn't be as stale as this argument has become. Edited December 25, 2022 by redskinss 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: You z and Darons dad should talk in a long dark alley. Why? We don't live in the dark ages anymore. We have zoom or Teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 Just now, redskinss said: If the twinkle that John McLane bit into in nakatomi plaza was around to this day it still wouldn't be as stale as this argument has become. it would unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 Just now, redskinss said: If the twinkle that John McLane bit into in nakatomi plaza was around to this day it still wouldn't be as stale as this argument has become. Well then you should bring in some fresh twinkies. Slacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSkinz83 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, redskinss said: If the twinkle that John McLane bit into in nakatomi plaza was around to this day it still wouldn't be as stale as this argument has become. I thought it was Sgt. Powell who bit the twinkie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, zCommander said: Why? We don't live in the dark ages anymore. We have zoom or Teams. Ok so you’re the “z” he referred to in his post lol…embarrassed to say I immediately though “World War Z” and tried to figure out if alluding to me as “Califan Z” and a dark alley had anything to do with the movie and why Payne’s dad would be there lol… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 Just now, FLSkinz83 said: I thought it was Sgt. Powell who bit the twinkie? Nope, McLane bit into one and for some strange reason got on the radio immediately to tell Powell that he had bitten into a thousand year old twinkie. Powell had some though, gotta love 80's product placement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSkinz83 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I'll give you one more and then I'll let go of your leg on the Heinicke stuff. 😀 A. You basically suggest this morning that you will be validated that Turner and the O line are the problems not the QBs when Wentz struggles. B. Personally I am not that high on Wentz or Taylor so I think its perfectly plausible that both QBs are the issue. But to play along, what would it say if Wentz played well? Would it be the reverse -- that maybe the O line and Turner aren't the top problems with the passing game? Here's the thing...it's not about validation. I hope I'm wrong. I'll be happy if I'm wrong. Wentz is capable of playing well with this crew, as he's shown at times. At this point, it's hard for me to imagine the O-Line, TE's and Turner are going to flip the switch and become good. Would love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Ok so you’re the “z” he referred to in his post lol…embarrassed to say I immediately though “World War Z” and tried to figure out if alluding to me as “Califan Z” and a dark alley had anything to do with the movie and why Payne’s dad would be there lol… It's been the same 8 or 9 dudes talking all year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said: It's been the same 8 or 9 dudes talking all year. That doesn’t add any clarity lol… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSkinz83 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: OK that probably is it. I've debated too many people and read too many posts to not pick up the signs when someone is trying to downplay versus lift a player and you seem to be doing that with Wentz. That is downplay. So you are doing that but your point is its in the context of Wentz isn't the better bet right now its Taylor in your mind. Yeah this point I follow. You feel that Taylor might be the dude but we are missing it because we can't divorce his play from the O line play and Turner whereas you think you got a good handle on it. Could be also what Logan Paulsen suggested in the soup when grading the Giants game, Taylor himself isn't good at setting protections. 1) Exactly 2) "The dude"? I wouldn't ever call him that. Can he be more effective in the right situation? Yes. 3) I can't imagine the protections are on him. That's usually the Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: It's been the same 8 or 9 dudes talking all year. I am lost. You are the one who created this thread. You haven't been talking at all? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSkinz83 Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Just looked at the PFF scores for yesterday They graded Heinicke as bad but not as bad as usual, 56 grade, his normal average is 49. They graded all three receivers well especially Dotson They apparently loved what they saw from Chase in that short stint, just short of a 90 which is their grade of elite play Interesting. Do you know the difference in methodology between PFF and ESPN QBR? Because and 84 QBR Is very good and 56 PFF grade is below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 25, 2022 Author Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: That doesn’t add any clarity lol… Theres 2 dudes with a z in there name and the other one is that miserable guy are you doing your annoying thing or being serious? you're not being serious. Edited December 25, 2022 by Koolblue13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said: 1) Exactly 2) "The dude"? I wouldn't ever call him that. Can he be more effective in the right situation? Yes. 3) I can't imagine the protections are on him. That's usually the Center. Paulsen suggested the QB can kick in on it. It would be odd if he couldn't considering he has the best view of it. I am listening to Paulsen's take of yesterday. He criticized Turner some. He also said to quote him the quarterback limits his play calling. Among other things, he talks about Turner's scheme the way it works best is limited by Heinicke's inability to stretch the field. He also said some of their shortcoming in short yardage situations is this offense is run out of the gun. So the rare times Heinicke is under center defenses are clued that the run is on its way. Teams with short QBs like Taylor almost exclusively play out of the gun, helps the QB see over their O line. 3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said: Interesting. Do you know the difference in methodology between PFF and ESPN QBR? Because and 84 QBR Is very good and 56 PFF grade is below average. Mainly PFF grades every throw regardless of result. QBR centers on the result of the throw. Edited December 25, 2022 by Skinsinparadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 25, 2022 Share Posted December 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said: Theres 2 dudes with a z in there name and the other one is that miserable guy Well that clears things up lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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