The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinny21]

27 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Alex Smith's role in 2018 was a far cry from THs. We were not afraid to throw a pass to win the game with him, in fact you could feel confident he would do everything in his power not to put the ball in harms way, even to a detriment. There was a level of trust from the coaching staff in their QB. He was a true game manager.

 

 

This current club won't formulate a gameplan that does not tear the ball out of their QBs hands and they wont give the the ball to the same QB in OT when its the only way to win a game. The only week-to-week consistency is the active effort to prevent TH from losing the game. He does not have any level of trust from his staff. Its fair to question why he is even out there.

 

 

2018 Smith was never in a situation where his team week-in and week-out tried to minimize his impact.

Taylor’s passing is far riskier than Smith’s, without a doubt (though it is somewhat ironic that he threw 10 tds to 5 ints, vs 9 tds to 5 ints for Taylor).  I think you’re reading too much into the OT thing though, in terms of Turner trusting Taylor, when Heinicke was under a ton of pressure, Larsen had been injured, and we didn’t have an answer for their blitzing.  Right or wrong, they played for a tie.  Now if they had a good qb back there, sure, they probably put the ball in that guy’s hands more.  I don’t think anyone’s under the illusion Taylor is a good qb.  And they dropped him back to pass about 48 times. 

 

Again though, while Taylor is risky as a passer, I think we at least have to question whether the gameplan is in part due to oline injuries, a desire to give the defense more rest, and to keep opposing offenses on their benches.  (I’m not arguing Taylor’s passing isn’t a factor as well, just to be clear).  Look at it another way… if they started Wentz again, would you want them to revert to a pass happy offense?  No, right?  Not because the staff doesn’t trust Carson, but probably in large part because of those other factors I listed.  

 

BTW, Alex’s passes per game in 2018 were basically identical to Heinicke’s this year.  And that was with Washington getting blown out in 3 games which lead Smith to throw way more passes than his average.  Take those out and he was averaging under 24 passes/game vs Taylor’s 30.2. Remove the Giants game from Taylor’s average, and it’s 28.5 instead. 

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

This Sabah lady just compared Heinicke to Mahomes on 980.

 

I'm done. I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.

What's scary is that she supposedly is a surgeon.

[Jumbo]

31 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

To be fair, though, they're both...male...

To be fair, Mahomes has been able to pay for a place to live all on his own since he came into the league. Though I bet his sister has an even nicer couch these days than heinie's sis.

 

Fortunately heinie had a friend at one of the most sadass franchises owned by a historically sadass creep and now has some nifty new sneakers and can definitely pay his own rent.

 

😲🤐😬😝🤓

 

 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

Are you suggesting that it would be wise to consider putting Logan Thomas in at quarterback before we considered going back to Wentz?

 

No.  I am suggesting that you do not go back to Wentz barring an injury to Heinicke. 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, CommanderCarson said:

Alex smith was crucified on here and it was widely believed we didn’t stand a chance to come back from ANY deficit with him at QB (mostly true). 
 

Now he’s being remembered a bit more fondly here i guess?

Washington would be a SB contender with Alex Smith pre injury. 
 

51 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

To be fair, though, they're both...male...

 

when odds are 10% or lower he transforms into Mahomes. I will not let anyone tell me otherwise. I’m just along for the ride. 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

2018 Smith was never in a situation where his team week-in and week-out tried to minimize his impact.

 

The wheels were starting to fall off in that Texans game where he was injured.  He was terrible in that game.  Also, the team couldn't beat anyone who put up more than 17 points, and the first time there was a lead change came in that Texans game...when Colt McCoy entered the game.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, CommanderCarson said:

Alex smith was crucified on here and it was widely believed we didn’t stand a chance to come back from ANY deficit with him at QB (mostly true). 
 

Now he’s being remembered a bit more fondly here i guess?

You sure are well versed in historical forum drama for a guy that showed up in March.  Hmmmm….

 

That said, I don’t see any more fanfare for Alex Smith now than I did then.  Personally, I hated trading for and paying Alex Smith.  Worse I hated that the coach found out about it after the fact. I wasn’t enamored with the teams start to that season and saw it trending down, similar to the 2022 Giants.

 

But when a dude gets hurt and goes through all the drama he went though rehabbing, it’s only natural stances would soften somewhat on the guy.

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The wheels were starting to fall off in that Texans game where he was injured.  He was terrible in that game.  Also, the team couldn't beat anyone who put up more than 17 points, and the first time there was a lead change came in that Texans game...when Colt McCoy entered the game.  

 

Very clear he wasn’t clicking with Jays offense, though many felt it was beginning to click when injured. 

 

No doubt he was operating at his floor as a QB in Washington, but provided so much that I’m sure you roll your eyes at. The buzzword for Smith defenders (me being one) was intangibles lol. 
 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by wit33

[mhd24]

Alex Smith is 1000X the QB Taylor is.  A healthy Alex makes us a contender in the NFC.  He never made mistakes and knew where to throw the ball.  Sure, it. was boring, but we wouldn't have Taylor's constant turnover-worthy throws.  If we are going to run this ball-control offense, then Alex was a master at it.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I think you’re reading too much into the OT thing though,

 

Nah, I don't think I am. The argument about a lack of faith is one I have made since last season. The OT thing is just the latest in a very long list of evidence towards that point. We have stuffed TH in a hide-the-QB gameplan every week for over a year with minimal deviation. We seem to be shrinking his role even harder this year than last.

 

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Look at it another way… if they started Wentz again, would you want them to revert to a pass happy offense?  No, right?

 

Not to say Turner has shown evidence of going this route w/ a re-inserted Wentz but I would still want us to be a rushing predicated team, but not to the extent we currently are. I would also want some level of flux within the week-to-week gameplan to take advantage of good/bad opposing pass/rush defenses instead of the predetermined "we are gonna run the ball as much as possible no matter the opponent" gameplan we have been forced to run with TH for over a year now.

 

Stuff like "when we play a bad passing D we put more emphasis on actually passing the ball" kinda thing.

 

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Not because the staff doesn’t trust Carson, but probably in large part because of those other factors I listed.  

 

When this staff had access to Wentz, sanz his game w/ a broken finger, we were a pass heavy team, with a worse O-line then the one we have been fielding the last several weeks. Was it dumb? sure, but clearly they wanted to maximize Wentz impact. That is trust. Probably misplaced trust, but trust. They game-planned around Carson. They made him the focal point. On the other hand we game-plan "around" TH, constantly trying to both compromise w/ his lack of physical ability and minimize his role.

 

The second TH is the QB, we are one of the most rush heavy Os in the NFL.

Even last year, With a great Pass Pro oline, we were one of the most run heavy Os in the NFL.

 

No matter the quality of line in front of him, Turner chooses to go rush heavy when TH is in there. The current Pass Pro Oline is terrible, but its not the limiting factor. Its TH. You give Turner anything other than a busted finger Wentz and the O changes. Going Pass happy behind this O-line is certainly not a change for the better, but there is clear evidence that they would if they could. They actually believe in Carson's ability enough to put weight on his shoulders. When it comes to TH's gamplans its a race to take as much off of his as possible and it has been that way for a long time.

Edited December 12, 2022 by FootballZombie

[redskinss]

9 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

No.  I am suggesting that you do not go back to Wentz barring an injury to Heinicke. 

Why did you mention Logan Thomas with a question mark?

[DJHJR86]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Why did you mention Logan Thomas with a question mark?

 

It was in response to someone who said "anyone but Heinicke".  

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It was in response to someone who said "anyone but Heinicke".  

Gotcha.

Figured it had to be sarcastic.

[NewCliche21]

17 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Why did you mention Logan Thomas with a question mark?

 

I'm Ron Burgundy?

[DJHJR86]

15 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Alex Smith is 1000X the QB Taylor is.  A healthy Alex makes us a contender in the NFC.  He never made mistakes and knew where to throw the ball.  Sure, it. was boring, but we wouldn't have Taylor's constant turnover-worthy throws.  If we are going to run this ball-control offense, then Alex was a master at it.

 

Considering that an Alex Smith led team in Washington never beat a team that dropped 18 or more points, this current team would be 4-9 under that scenario.  And that was with a 16 TD to 13 INT ratio.  Smith was turning the ball over in his starts.  There is a bit of revisionist history when it comes to him because "WE WERE 6-3!"

[mhd24]

15 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Considering that an Alex Smith led team in Washington never beat a team that dropped 18 or more points, this current team would be 4-9 under that scenario.  And that was with a 16 TD to 13 INT ratio.  Smith was turning the ball over in his starts.  There is a bit of revisionist history when it comes to him because "WE WERE 6-3!"

 

Compared to Heineke, Alex is Steve Young.  Give Alex this defense & running game, then he's a massive improvement.  

[wit33]

39 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Considering that an Alex Smith led team in Washington never beat a team that dropped 18 or more points, this current team would be 4-9 under that scenario.  And that was with a 16 TD to 13 INT ratio.  Smith was turning the ball over in his starts.  There is a bit of revisionist history when it comes to him because "WE WERE 6-3!"

He was not nearly as good at football when playing on one leg.
 

He strangely kind of became a gunslinger at times when he returned from injury. It seemed he realized he couldn’t escape the pocket as he normally would to scramble or buy time, which forced him to make riskier throws when pocket was collapsing. 
 

Don’t forget 5-1 while playing on one leg. The story didn’t end at 6-3  

Edited December 12, 2022 by wit33

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

He was not nearly as good at football when playing on one leg.
 

He strangely kind of became a gunslinger at times when he returned from injury. It seemed he realized he couldn’t escape the pocket as he normally would to scramble or buy time, which forced him to make riskier throws when pocket was collapsing. 
 

Don’t forget 5-1 while playing on one leg. The story didn’t end at 6-3  

 

Sadly that season it ended at 6-4.  I get the theory that he was coming along in Jay's system.. But, I saw his last win in person against Tampa and he wasn't good in that one but fortunately Tampa had if I recall 4 turnovers, thankfully.  He was bad in his last game against the Texans.  But I do agree over time he likely would have improved.

 

The 3 things Henicke has in common with Alex IMO is teammates really dug them.  Both really were strong at mastering offenses and know the system.  Both struggled to throw TDs.  

 

The two legged Alex is in another orbit than Heinicke IMO for three reasons.

 

A.  He was much more accurate than Taylor

 

B.  Had better arm strength than Taylor

 

C. Had  much more mobility than Taylor.

 

I thought Alex was decent.  Very average to sometimes slightly above.  IMO Heinicke is below average.  

[Zim489]

 

 

Great reddit thread about drafting a QB on the nfl draft reddit

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Considering that an Alex Smith led team in Washington never beat a team that dropped 18 or more points, this current team would be 4-9 under that scenario.  And that was with a 16 TD to 13 INT ratio.  Smith was turning the ball over in his starts.  There is a bit of revisionist history when it comes to him because "WE WERE 6-3!"

 

our best WR was Crowder at the time and we were still trying to make the 3-4 work on defense

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

The wheels were starting to fall off in that Texans game where he was injured.  He was terrible in that game.  Also, the team couldn't beat anyone who put up more than 17 points, and the first time there was a lead change came in that Texans game...when Colt McCoy entered the game.  

Oh man, I remember that game ending in a horrible non-call for DPI, which, if it had gotten thrown, would’ve allowed Hopkins to kick the game winning FG. The league even announced later that night they messed up on that one…..

[CommanderInTheRye]

The kid has everything you look for except prototypical size and of course, experience.

 

John Keim interrogates Sam Howell and gets him to confess the horrifying truth of his ghastly crimes...

 

j/k

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

The kid has everything you look for except prototypical size and of course, experience.

 

John Keim interrogates Sam Howell and gets him to confess the horrifying truth of his ghastly crimes...

 

 

 

 

I listened to the interview in Keim's latest podcast.

 

In short, at North Carolina, Howell's drops (steps) didn't change from play to play, it was the same every time.  In the NFL, he has to practice adjusting his drops to the play and he feels good that he has a handle on it now.    He came off pretty confident that he can play now.  Whether he can or not, we don't know, but I liked his confidence. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I thought Alex was decent.  Very average to sometimes slightly above.  IMO Heinicke is below average.  

 

Alex Smith was a below average starter in his 16 games with Washington.  Was he better than Heinicke in his prime?  Absolutely.  His QBR over his 16 game stretch averaged out to a measly 37.3.  In games where his QBR was below 50, the team was 7-3.  They won in spite of him much like the team is winning right now in spite of Heinicke's limitations.  I just think it's crazy that people are speculating about benching him when there's no better answer on the roster at this time.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Alex Smith was a below average starter in his 16 games with Washington.  Was he better than Heinicke in his prime?  Absolutely.  His QBR over his 16 game stretch averaged out to a measly 37.3.  In games where his QBR was below 50, the team was 7-3.  They won in spite of him much like the team is winning right now in spite of Heinicke's limitations.  I just think it's crazy that people are speculating about benching him when there's no better answer on the roster at this time.  

 

I was thinking about this today.  We have some unique experiences as Commanders fans.

 

A.  We got an owner that most of us hate -- and we as a fan base occasionally duke it out with each other because of the fallout of that.  

 

B.  We've had mediocre to below mediocre play for the most part at Qb -- and as a fan base we've had heated debates about that subpar QB play

 

As a fan base, we have paid our dues, our arguments really sell in a sad way what we've had to deal with, we deserve some serious football joy. 😀