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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

By Koolblue13
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skinny21

skinny21

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The pistol play we run doesn’t have the QB move, if I’m thinking of the same one you are. The Peyton play, the play action is actually part of a sprint out, so the handoff would take place about where they OT would line up for some type of a zone-stretch run.  
 

The backside DE is supposed to be blocked down towards the play side by the OT.  Often times, the DE runs himself out of the play.  However, if you catch them staying at home, you hand the ball off because the OT will ignore the DE and open a second level against a LB because he wouldn’t have anybody to block.

 

Which is why the DE typically flows with the play and the QB has a free release.

Good description.  I think my point still stands though?  On the stretch PA, the qb has their back to the backside DE?  So handoff/keep isn’t predicated on that defenders actions.  And yes, you’re right that the qb doesn’t move on the pistol RPO, but my point was that I think that’s our version of it… but the RPO gives you the chance to read the DE that the stretch PA doesn’t.  That’s not to say I don’t think we should run stretch PA though!

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Good description.  I think my point still stands though?  On the stretch PA, the qb has their back to the backside DE?  So handoff/keep isn’t predicated on that defenders actions.  And yes, you’re right that the qb doesn’t move on the pistol RPO, but my point was that I think that’s our version of it… but the RPO gives you the chance to read the DE that the stretch PA doesn’t.  That’s not to say I don’t think we should run stretch PA though!

I think they are different plays with different purposes.  You’re right the Manning play was not a run/pass option reading the backside DE.  I think Peyton it was just called run or pass at the LOS by Peyton, and they went with it.  If they saw or felt the DE was starting to cheat and stay put, they’d hand the ball off, and there would be a gaping hole.  
 

If he moved with the play, they’d pull it and throw the ball.

 

The other thing about this play, they had 2 variations of it.  At times, Peyton would just pull the ball, plant and set up where he faked the handoff.  This has the effect of moving the pocket, allowing the OL to attack, and make the reads easier.

 

Or he would pull around and go out the back side and roll the other direction.  And invariably, some receiver would break free right in front of him.

 

Our version is much more Run/Pass option but it doesn’t move the QB, which is where this discussion started.  I like the idea of getting TH on the move, but he needs to be able to set his feet more than most because of his limited arm strength. 

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SkinsFTW

SkinsFTW

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

The truly great offensive minds, like Walsh, Reid, Holmgren, Shanahan, GIbbs, and early Norv had such a tight bond between the run and pass games.  Everything complemented everything else.  Martz did the same thing with the Greatest Show on Turf Rams. 

 

Offenses have just become so much less linked together.  Now it's "I have a great play for 3rd and 6" vs. "I have an entire offense that builds on itself and the defense will never know what we're going to do when."

 

All of those guys had elite players at almost every position on offense.

 

Makes you wonder how they did it!!! (Sarcasm)

 

Now days QB's take up so much of the cap there isn't a long term where teams have that much talent on offense unless they just roll perfect numbers several years in a row in the draft. 

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Peregrine

Peregrine

Posted
Posted

Fun Facts!

 

Taylor Heinicke is 3rd in franchise history for QB rating(min 250 attempts).

Taylor Heinicke is 3rd in franchise history for completion percentage.

He is 2nd in franchise history in 4th quarter comeback percentage, behind only Jay Schroeder.

He is 4th in franchise history in percentage of game winning drives, at 22%, behind Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, and Jay Schroeder.

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@DCGoldPants

@DCGoldPants

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Now days QB's take up so much of the cap there isn't a long term where teams have that much talent on offense unless they just roll perfect numbers several years in a row in the draft. 

 

This. 

 

Before Luck retired I remember talk of a deal that his pay was a % of the cap for a given year. Maybe that never happened. But yeah, the QB should make a lot of he's worth it. Touches the ball on like 99.9% of the offensive snaps. What's that worth? 20% of your cap? More? Less? 

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redskinss

redskinss

Posted
Posted (edited)

This game is setting up to be very ironic in the hater vs fellater debate. 

Heineke has had a couple bad throws but overall a pretty good game.

The defense has been sketchy at best and terrible at the point of attack. 

If the fellaters only defense of Heineke is the teams record don't you have to blame all losses on him despite the play from the rest of the team especially the defense?

 

And no, I'm not saying we're gonna lose just that if we do and the defense plays bad while heinicke plays decent its gonna make for a really weird debate this week.

 

Guess I gotta edit again based off that last throw.

Lol.

That was classic heiny

Edited by redskinss
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Berggy9598

Berggy9598

Posted
Posted

When that’s all you can muster against an absolutely miserable pass defense, you have a meteor sized gaping hole at QB and there isn’t a single TH pompom waiver walking this planet that will convince me differently. The fact that we’re 7-5 shows what this team can be with a legit QB1. Stay with who we have in the room now and best case scenario you beat the really bad teams, lose to the really good teams and everything else is a tossup. This roster is a QB away and it’s time to go get one. I’m not someone to root for losses if the team has no chance in playoffs, but there is no QB on the roster we have a chance in the playoffs with. This Atlanta defense made the Carolina passing attack look like the 99 Rams. 

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm pretty disappointed in Heinicke today, I could care less about the INT because it didn't hurt us but I was really hoping the Eagles win would springboard him to confidently running this offense but it hasn't. We aren't winning games because of him, actually I think these games are closer than they should be because of him.

 

Ron wont do it but its worth getting Wentz back in here. The key for Wentz is can he prevent the sack, if he can I think he'll give the offense a boost in the passing game which makes the running game even better.

 

4 of our last 5 are against teams with winning records and we need to win 3 of those games to have a shot at the playoffs. I hate seeing us waste a good opportunity in a season when there really aren't any great teams in the NFC.

Edited by JSSkinz
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Warhead36

Warhead36

Posted
Posted

I'd now be okay trading 3 #1s to get a super stud QB in the draft. A young guy with legitimate talent can take this team over the top. This wouldn't be like trading for RG3 in 2012 when the team was still full of holes(but we still won 10 games because of his brilliance).

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd now be okay trading 3 #1s to get a super stud QB in the draft. A young guy with legitimate talent can take this team over the top. This wouldn't be like trading for RG3 in 2012 when the team was still full of holes(but we still won 10 games because of his brilliance).

I'd be down with this.  I don't know who that guy is though. 

 

First round QBs just terrify me at this point.  The class of Burrow, Tua and Herbert seems to be very good.  But almost looks like the outlier.  There are SO MANY busts in the top 10 of the draft at this point, a lot of them with teams trading up to get.  Wentz being one of them.  Trubisky another.  Baker was a #1, Rosen and Darnold were both top picks.  Look at what's going on with the Jets.

 

The last #1 overall QB who had a #1 overall QB - HOF career: Peyton Manning.  The one who probably came closest since then?  Andrew Luck.  With some love to Cam for about a 5 year span.  

 

Burrow looks like he's headed in a positive direction. 

 

Both Mahomes and Allen were the 3rd QB taken in their respective classes.

 

It's such a complete crap shoot.  

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FootballZombie

FootballZombie

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd now be okay trading 3 #1s to get a super stud QB in the draft. A young guy with legitimate talent can take this team over the top. This wouldn't be like trading for RG3 in 2012 when the team was still full of holes(but we still won 10 games because of his brilliance).

 

You would have to make the move b4 FA so you can spend you money on the O line. If you can guarantee a QB before then, its not the worst move in the world.

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm pretty disappointed in Heinicke today, I could care less about the INT because it didn't hurt us but I was really hoping the Eagles win would springboard him to confidently running this offense but it hasn't. We aren't winning games because of him, actually I think these games are closer than they should be because of him.

 

Ron wont do it but its worth getting Wentz back in here. The key for Wentz is can he prevent the sack, if he can I think he'll give the offense a boost in the passing game which makes the running game even better.

 

4 of our last 5 are against teams with winning records and we need to win 3 of those games to have a shot at the playoffs. I hate seeing us waste a good opportunity in a season when there really aren't any great teams in the NFC.

It's because he's limited and bad. He's always been limited and bad.  He will always be limited and bad.

 

But the defense is playing really well, and Scott is committing SO much to the run, they've basically taken the QB out of the game.  

 

They can win games by playing this way.  It's basically the same thing Gibbs did with Brunnell in 2005. They won because of Portis and the defense.  Especially after Brunnell got hurt.

 

They haven't won any games because of TH.  

 

He's been neutral in a few.  And he's been bad in a few where they have won in spite of him. 

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JSSkinz

JSSkinz

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

They can win games by playing this way.

I think up until now I was ok with it while always hoping he would get a little better each week.  But now we play good teams who are ahead of us in the standings and I'm not so sure this style of play continues to win.  The blocking is better, you see Heine standing in clean pockets with time to pass.  Its time to make a business decision.

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd now be okay trading 3 #1s to get a super stud QB in the draft. A young guy with legitimate talent can take this team over the top. This wouldn't be like trading for RG3 in 2012 when the team was still full of holes(but we still won 10 games because of his brilliance).

 

I'm still holding out hope that Howell magically becomes that QB...

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Voice_of_Reason

Voice_of_Reason

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think up until now I was ok with it while always hoping he would get a little better each week.  But now we play good teams who are ahead of us in the standings and I'm not so sure this style of play continues to win.  The blocking is better, you see Heine standing in clean pockets with time to pass.  Its time to make a business decision.

I don’t think Ron can bench TH until they lose.  Probably lose because of him.  As long as they keep winning, he’s going to keep trotting him out there.  
 

Years and years ago, Doug Flutie was playing for the Bills and the coach yanked him for Rob Johnson and there was kindof a revolt.

 

When you’ve got the magic, you’ve just got to ride it out.  

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wit33

wit33

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You realize they could really keep the DL together no matter what, right?  Or no?


I’ve come to conclusion it’s a veteran QB at 10-14% of the cap or riding with Dline for next 3-4 year window. Most likely will get a competent QB and let 1-2 of the Dline go and tout the growth of the young Dline guys. 
 

I like idea of being elite and a clear cut above the rest of the league in some facet of the game. Dominating opposing teams run game and suffocating the QB comes second to the elite QB in terms ROI in the win department IMO. 
 

Im all ears if they can do both. Though, I hate allocating significant dollars for the competent pocket QB as I point out at every opportunity ;) 

Edited by wit33
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