The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, CommanderCarson said:

Taylor has limitations but he does a lot of things really well. He’s like the anti Wentz.

 

He won 7 games last year against some tough teams, you’re going off the last few games of the year when we were completely depleted and hobbling to the finish line. 
 

I fully expect the offense to look better with Heineke. Like night and day. 
 

And you may respect the guy, but you don’t act like you do. You act like he’s hot garbage and he’s not. 

Just to be clear, IDGAF what your opinion is of what you think my opinion is of Taylor Heineke.
 

I’m anxiously awaiting this night and day offense you speak of.  😭

 

If only the rest of the world could see Heineke like some of you guys do, we’d be able to offset the picks we gave up for Wentz.

[Zim489]

I fully expect the run game to get worse. As last season progressed we continually saw 8 man fronts vs Taylor with his complete inability to press the ball downfield. Teams stacked the box in coverage 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Zim489 said:

I fully expect the run game to get worse. As last season progressed we continually saw 8 man fronts vs Taylor with his complete inability to press the ball downfield. Teams stacked the box in coverage 

It’s just because everybody was out.  Taylor had no weapons, so his hair wasn’t on fire and moxie levels were down.  The dude gets through all his reads and back again, all the while climbing the pocket, twisting and juking from defenders.  He’s the best kept secret in football that played 16 games for the world to see, it’s amazing really.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I fully expect the run game to get worse. As last season progressed we continually saw 8 man fronts vs Taylor with his complete inability to press the ball downfield. Teams stacked the box in coverage 

 

Agree.  They will stack the box and set up the defense for the short passing game.    Dallas presented the league the model to shut down Heinicke.

 

Only upside of Taylor to me are these four things:

 

A.  Maybe it helps us save that 2nd round pick

 

B. Higher draft pick

 

C. Closer to seeing Howell

 

D.  He's more mobile than Wentz so maybe that helps some with pass protection

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

long term I prefer Howell, but right now Taylor is our best option. If/when we're out of it, go to Howell. 

[KillBill26]

Wentz had not been as bad as some make it out to be.  He made some throws (ie second TD to brown last week) that heinecke can never make.  With Wentz, we had a lot of yards and not a lot of points.  Now we will have not a lot of yards and not a lot of points.

 

If we had more confidence in our interior oline, I'd be ticked about not starting Howell.  But I'd hate to see this team ruin Howell before he has had a chance to develop.

 

On a related note, if WJ3 wants out, good riddance, maybe we can get a solid young C/G in return?  There are probably plenty of backups on other teams that could start for us right now.

[Old Blue]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

One of the benefits to have a stronger arm, like Wentz was the deep ball.  But, considering the QB not having time to throw those or not locating those guys in routes in recent games then what's the difference?

Do you perhaps think, that last years lack of a deep threat, was that our only deep threat receiver, was double and triple teamed on every pass route? I certainly do.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, Old Blue said:

Do you perhaps think, that last years lack of a deep threat, was that our only deep threat receiver, was double and triple teamed on every pass route? I certainly do.

That’s why TH threw it so high and short, so Terry could get away from triple coverage and come back to the ball.

 

[skinny21]

13 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I am personally floored how people seem to believe a guy w/ one of the longest time to throws in the NFL last year was somehow a lightning fast processor that was able to quickly dissect Ds and get the ball out fast.

 

The absolute eternity it took for him to choose to do anything was one of his biggest weaknesses.

I have to admit, I’m a bit torn on this issue.  Yes, he absolutely held the ball longer than most qbs, and I think it’s fair to believe that’s about processing speed.  On the other hand, some qbs maneuver more in the pocket and therefore often take longer to throw the ball.  Mahomes and Wilson are examples (though both in another stratosphere of talent level than TH of course).  I don’t know if that affected his timing.  Then there’s pass catching talent - relating to how quickly guys were getting open last year.  Lastly (and I’m ignoring Turner’s scheme), there’s the idea of going through multiple reads, which can also include trusting (sometimes overly) the oline and ability to evade pressure.

 

Frankly, I have the same sort of issue with the idea that TH’s poor performance was a result of D coordinators figuring him out.  It’s not that I think that take is wrong, it’s that other factors were at play and I really don’t know how to rate/weigh them.  Dallas’ D was a buzzsaw, I don’t know how much (if at all) aftereffects of Covid affected TH, 2 of his top 3 pass catchers were out, and the oline was dealing with injury (beyond playing our 4th string center).  On the other hand, he was god awful against the Giants, so…🤷‍♂️

 

Or, to put it a different way, between last year and this year, how much have we heard about issues with Turner’s play calling, scheme and now his inability to adjust to the qb?  Or the need to get a receiver opposite Terry and to surround Wentz with weapons?  Or the misusage of Gibson and need for a real back, as well as the importance of McKissick (and Samuel) to this O.  Is this me trying to argue Heinicke is a good qb?  Nope.  Am I making excuses?  Nope, no more than someone saying that Dallas and Philly’s D, along with our poor oline play have made Carson look worse than he is.  All I’m getting at is that I find myself uncertain how much to weight those issues vs the idea that the last few games are who he is now.  

 

 

@BatteredFanSyndromeI could be wrong here, but specifically on the half-field reads via rollouts… isn’t it typically 3 levels that mostly rely on touch passing vs arm strength?  Obviously a different story if your 3rd level guy is running a go/corner route of course.  Or if the coverage is so good you really need to gun the ball to have any chance at a completion.  And on a related note, for me anyway, I’d just wanna see that (rollouts) used sporadically, not as the default or anything.

 

 

[CommanderCarson]

36 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Just to be clear, IDGAF what your opinion is of what you think my opinion is of Taylor Heineke.
 

I’m anxiously awaiting this night and day offense you speak of.  😭

 

If only the rest of the world could see Heineke like some of you guys do, we’d be able to offset the picks we gave up for Wentz.

It will function like a real NFL offense like it did for most of last year. Right now it’s basically long ball or 3 and out 15 yards back from where we started. 
 

For the record I was open to the Wentz trade, but I always thought the narrative on heineke was way over the top. It’s based on the division games at the end of the year which was a skeleton crew. We have much better/healthier skills guys. Heineke and our 3 backs will provide a much more dynamic run game. The team will have an identity at the very least. 
 

It’s sad the lengths some of y’all go to dismiss his game. Like he just brings nothing to the table and didn’t win a single game last year. There were people yelling all off season how stupid it would have been to not make a trade like Wentz because it’s punting on the season. I somewhat agreed it was worth the try. But you see where that got us? No where. Down 28 mil and 2 thirds. Crippling? Certainly not. But definitely could have used those resources to bolster the team around the QB, and then maybe go all in on the 2023 draft or roll with a guy like Howell after soaking up the game from the sidelines for a year.

 

You may not GAF about what anyone’s opinion is on your opinion and that’s great. But it’s clear as day you don’t actually respect heineke or anything about his game. Maybe his story, but you (and many others) consistently act like heineke is the biggest joke of an option at the QB position. He’s not.

[tomwvr]

2 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

OLine was vastly better last year tho.

Not at the end of the season. 

[Conn]

35 minutes ago, Old Blue said:

Do you perhaps think, that last years lack of a deep threat, was that our only deep threat receiver, was double and triple teamed on every pass route? I certainly do.

I think it probably also had to do with the human nerf gun we had at QB

[goskins10]

5 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

If he's not going to look at his second read, maybe don't try to throw it 150 mph behind your first read 5 yards away.  And if your second read is Terry McLaurin, who is wide open, yes, he should look that way.

 

I understand what you are saying and i understand your frustration but this is just not how it works. If your first read is open you throw it. You do not look them off hoping another route has opened up. If you look at any pass play in the NFL, you will see even the best QBs in the league have in fans minds "missed" a wide open guy. If your first read is open, you hit it. The entire team is working the play assuming you are hitting your first read. The only time this is not true is if you are setting something up and you look the defenders off then go back to another route. Or if the routes are close enough you catch the other guy wide open. And fair enough some guys can see more of the field better than others. But that is much different than turning down your first read that's open in the hopes another route that is a bigger gain is open. If it's not by the time you come back to the first read it's likely not there anymore. Also, we have the benifit of looking down from above so we can clearly see who is open. When you are at field level and all those big ass linemen are trying to fill passing lanes it's not so easy. 

 

Now I do agree with the first part. If you are going to throw to your first read you can't fling it over thier heads or into the ground. You should be able to make that throw in your sleep most of the time unless it's a deep route.

 

He really nevers seems to get his feet set. Even when he has protection he gets happy feet which tends to lead to over throws. His new trick is throwing it into the ground. Either way 99 yds against the ****ing bears does not help his cause. Yes, Scott was bad, yes the Oline was not great - although it was probably the best it's been since we lost our starting C. But none of that should have kept Carson from putting up 300 yds. Too many weapons. I guess the one good thing is Robinson looks legit. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just when we think the season can’t get more miserable, we have to listen to Heineke’s Camp(hair-on)fire stories.

 

@Jumbo are you going to survive this?  I’m not sure I can.  
 

All I’ve got to say is I don’t want to hear one excuse for when this offense isn’t night and day with him at the helm.  But that’s all we are going to hear.

 

”M0Ve dA p0cKeT”

”GiT hIm 0n Da RuN!”

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[primetime441]

57 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s why TH threw it so high and short, so Terry could get away from triple coverage and come back to the ball.

 

 

If he can throw it high, he can throw it deep.

[NickyJ]

Taylor Heinicke vs the Packers is going to be glorious. I've criticized Heinicke for his stop drop and roll for his Lambeau Leap, but I'm learning. It wasn't that he made a bad decision. It's that his hair was on fire and he was trying to put it out. This time, they'll be playing in Washington and have the fire extinguishers ready at the endzones.

[JSSkinz]

6 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I fully expect the run game to get worse. As last season progressed we continually saw 8 man fronts vs Taylor with his complete inability to press the ball downfield. Teams stacked the box in coverage 

No Samuel, Thomas, Dotson, and eventually McKissic left him and any other QB who would have played last year with little to no options.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by JSSkinz

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, JSSkinz said:

No Samuel, Thomas, Dotson, and eventually McKissic left him and any other QB who would have played last year with little to no options.

 

1

I understand the moxie is intoxicating, but please don’t join them.

[FootballZombie]

Someone needs to check if @Conn 's hair is on fire cuz that human nerf gun line displays moxie levels that are off the charts.

 

Lets not forget about that Brett Farve inspired gunslinger mentality and willingness to give guys a chance... to go to the hospital.

 

 

Oh man, jokes are the only thing that is going to get me thru this abomination if I gotta watch more TH.

 

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I understand the moxie is intoxicating, but please don’t join them.

I’ll help myself to as much moxie as I like, sir.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Human Nerf Gun wins the internet today.

Just now, TradeTheBeal! said:

I’ll help myself to as much moxie as I like, sir.

That’s if Taylor is willing to spare you some.  Good luck.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Live look-in at the moxie supply.  Looks good!

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, TradeTheBeal! said:

Live look-in at the moxie supply.  Looks good

You wouldn’t even realize it’s fall at Mt. Heineke.  I guess it’s always 90 degrees and looks sunny when hair is on fire.

[JSSkinz]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I understand the moxie is intoxicating, but please don’t join them.

LOL, I'm not taking sides here, I would play Sam but I believe Ron will think that peoples perception will be that we're giving up on the season and he'll be worried about the players feeling the same way.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by JSSkinz

[Warhead36]

I binge watched Friday Night Lights recently and Taylor Heinicke is basically our Matt Saracen. Hopefully he can provide the same kind of spark Saracen did for the Dillon Panthers.