The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mojo]

15 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Since 2016, Wentz has the most QB fumbles....Cousins is 2nd.   

Wonderful…I’m not sure that’s something you can teach out of a guy.  He’s going to wow one minute by pulling out of a rush and hitting a bomb downfield then deflate when he gets pummeled and fumbling.  It’s reminiscent of RG3. Jay said that was his biggest downfall, never giving up on a play.

[skinsfan93]

2 minutes ago, mojo said:

Wonderful…I’m not sure that’s something you can teach out of a guy.  He’s going to wow one minute by pulling out of a rush and hitting a bomb downfield then deflate when he gets pummeled and fumbling.  It’s reminiscent of RG3. Jay said that was his biggest downfall, never giving up on a play.

Yup Wentz has a propensity for the hero play and will hold onto the ball way too long at times and try to extend the play. Those times he will get the ball knocked out or try some stupid gadget throw like his left handed interception last year. He needs to get that 5 second clock going where he’s making quicker reads and getting the ball out. 
 

 

[FLSkinz83]

3 minutes ago, mojo said:

Wonderful…I’m not sure that’s something you can teach out of a guy.  He’s going to wow one minute by pulling out of a rush and hitting a bomb downfield then deflate when he gets pummeled and fumbling.  It’s reminiscent of RG3. Jay said that was his biggest downfall, never giving up on a play.

 

Wentz did a good job last year limiting his fumbles.     And since 2017 he's toward the bottom of the list (in a positive way) for fewest INT's

[Thinking Skins]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I don't mean the mumbiling.  The mannerisms, style, low key demeanor.  If anything Norv strikes me to have a bit more verve in his personality.   Scott comes off to me as nice guy -- but more of the type like the kid in the back room of the classroom maybe making a quip to classmate in an understated way than a dude that leads any pack.  But that's just my sense-read of his personality.  It's subjective. 

 

If you see Scott as a leader of men, cool.  It's all subjective.    I think i have to be one of his bigger fans on this board and have defended him plenty.  But yeah he doesn't strike me at all as a head coach type of personality in that regard he reminds me a lot of his dad. 

Maybe. I never noticed that part. Since his first interview in Carolina, I remember him not mumbling. That's what stood out to me. I'll say that Norv probably had more command of the offense. Like he's probably more confident in it and the fact that he developed Troy so early in his career gave him more name recognition. But then again, Scott is probably Norv's number 1 pupil. And Norv was so bad as a coach here and in Oakland but he did well in SD with a good QB. So I do have second thoughts on what he would be with a good QB all his time here. 

 

Back to Scott though. This may be cart before house but will we be in a question with Scott and Ron like we were with Jay sand McVay? Do I want Ron more than Scott? I think so, but I really don't know. Can Scott build a locker room like Ron has? Will our offense go back to the run run run types of Scott leaves ? Would Scott take Zanpeze too? 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, mojo said:

Wonderful…I’m not sure that’s something you can teach out of a guy.  He’s going to wow one minute by pulling out of a rush and hitting a bomb downfield then deflate when he gets pummeled and fumbling.  It’s reminiscent of RG3. Jay said that was his biggest downfall, never giving up on a play.

So, careful just believing everything you read.  

 

It's true.  

 

However, last year he only had 8 fumbles, 5 lost.  The 8 fumbles was the 17th ranked QB (with 1 being the worst, Dak at ... 16 I think?  Could have been 14, I don't remember.)

He had 2 seasons where he had an enormous amount of fumbles, 2019 and 2020.  Other than those seasons, he's been middle of the pack.

 

So, it's absolutely worth monitoring, but it might not be the problem the statistic says it is, and he might have gotten better at it.

 

For comparison, Kirk was second last year with 12.  

 

I will grant that this is something which absolutely bears watching, but I don't think it's worth fretting about. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is probably a "Around the League" thing but I caught some of the beginning of the Bears vs. Seahawks preseason game. (As an odd aside, it's on now, it's being broadcast as a Monday Night Football game, and it's Thursday.  So, take that for whatever it's worth.)

 

I'm going to tie this to our team, however:

 

- Justin Fields played 1 series.  His footwork was so bad that a casual observer with no formal training or knowledge sitting in the Dinghy Dock Bar in the middle of the Caribbean (St. Maarten, specifically) watching the game over a chick in a white see-through sun dress with pierced nipples and a big sun tattoo on her upper back could tell that his footwork was awful.  (I get that this is oddly specific).  On the second play of the game, he was supposed to have either a 5 or 7 step drop, and he sortof lazily floated back, I think it looked like 9 steps, kept drifting backwards, and then eventually threw incomplete.  

- When he got his feet into the right position, which happened a couple times, he is a very accurate and you can see why he was a good prospect.

- Trevor Siemien actually operated the Bear's offense fairly well, but you can immediately tell he has physical limitations with arm strength.  Not as much as TH, but he can't really drill the ball into tight windows, or at lest, it didn't look like he could in a small sample size, either.

- Gads, I am so glad we have Wentz/Howell over Geno Smith.  Or Trubsisky.  Or Mariota. Or Teddy.   Or name your bad FA backup QB who is competing for a starting job.  Geno Smith looked like you would expect him to look.  

 

In the long run, is Wentz better than Fields?  I dunno.  Is Howell better than Fields? I really don't know.  But in the small sample size, it still looked like Fields has a LONG way to go in order to be a top 15 QB.  Geno Smith is what he is and it isn't very good.   And with all due respect to @KDawg Howell has the farthest to go, obviously.

 

There is no question Wentz is better than all of these guys right now.  And I'm really, really happy we don't have to suffer through trying to get a guy who really shouldn't be starting starting.  

 

[FootballZombie]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

In the long run, is Wentz better than Fields?  I dunno.  Is Howell better than Fields? I really don't know.  But in the small sample size, it still looked like Fields has a LONG way to go in order to be a top 15 QB.  Geno Smith is what he is and it isn't very good.   And with all due respect to @KDawg Howell has the farthest to go, obviously.

 

There is no question Wentz is better than all of these guys right now.  And I'm really, really happy we don't have to suffer through trying to get a guy who really shouldn't be starting starting.  

 

 

It took a lot of back-breaking labor but I have finally identified the location of V.O.R.s bar.

 

 

Why did you have to post that from the middle of the Caribbean. Made my job so much harder.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Why did you have to post that from the middle of the Caribbean. 

All my posts are. 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

(I get that this is oddly specific). 

 

Not really. Sounds like a normal day meboy, except football is on. I sailed on a 64 footer over to SXM and Antigua once and got paid. That was cool (and the goal if I didn't get side tracked by dog rescue). Island life is good living. You should check out STX sometime.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Koolblue13

[The Sisko]

6 hours ago, TheShredder said:

You are having surgery.  Your health insurance gives you a choice of two doctors. One has previous experience of +1 year and the other doctor is just out of school and never performed solo...But he got good test scores in school!

Which one do you pick for your Penis Enlargement?

I'd want the one that could help me go long, not the guy that would have me perpetually looking like I just stepped out of a 40 degree pool.

[TheShredder]

1 minute ago, The Sisko said:

I'd want the one that could help me go long, not the guy that would have me perpetually looking like I just stepped out of a 40 degree pool.

Exactly, as the guy with experience is known to be great at the long ones!

 

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

a chick in a white see-through sun dress with pierced nipples

Yeah couldn't track the rest of the banter after that...my mind wonders.

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is probably a "Around the League" thing but I caught some of the beginning of the Bears vs. Seahawks preseason game. (As an odd aside, it's on now, it's being broadcast as a Monday Night Football game, and it's Thursday.  So, take that for whatever it's worth.)

 

I'm going to tie this to our team, however:

 

- Justin Fields played 1 series.  His footwork was so bad that a casual observer with no formal training or knowledge sitting in the Dinghy Dock Bar in the middle of the Caribbean (St. Maarten, specifically) watching the game over a chick in a white see-through sun dress with pierced nipples and a big sun tattoo on her upper back could tell that his footwork was awful.  (I get that this is oddly specific).  On the second play of the game, he was supposed to have either a 5 or 7 step drop, and he sortof lazily floated back, I think it looked like 9 steps, kept drifting backwards, and then eventually threw incomplete.  

- When he got his feet into the right position, which happened a couple times, he is a very accurate and you can see why he was a good prospect.

- Trevor Siemien actually operated the Bear's offense fairly well, but you can immediately tell he has physical limitations with arm strength.  Not as much as TH, but he can't really drill the ball into tight windows, or at lest, it didn't look like he could in a small sample size, either.

- Gads, I am so glad we have Wentz/Howell over Geno Smith.  Or Trubsisky.  Or Mariota. Or Teddy.   Or name your bad FA backup QB who is competing for a starting job.  Geno Smith looked like you would expect him to look.  

 

In the long run, is Wentz better than Fields?  I dunno.  Is Howell better than Fields? I really don't know.  But in the small sample size, it still looked like Fields has a LONG way to go in order to be a top 15 QB.  Geno Smith is what he is and it isn't very good.   And with all due respect to @KDawg Howell has the farthest to go, obviously.

 

There is no question Wentz is better than all of these guys right now.  And I'm really, really happy we don't have to suffer through trying to get a guy who really shouldn't be starting starting.  

 

I watched Fields. I thought he looked sharp. Fast release, good pocket awareness and presence. One of his best passes was where he got pressured, changed arm angles and let a pass rip to the sideline while getting hit in a spot that only his receiver could get to.

 

It was incomplete as it was off target (too far ahead of receiver) but instead of losing 6 yards on a sack and it being 2nd and 16 it was 2nd and 10. 
 

He looked comfortable and smooth.

 

His offensive line was absolute trash. 
 

And that’s going to be the story of Fields all season long.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Maybe. I never noticed that part. Since his first interview in Carolina, I remember him not mumbling. That's what stood out to me. I'll say that Norv probably had more command of the offense. Like he's probably more confident in it and the fact that he developed Troy so early in his career gave him more name recognition. But then again, Scott is probably Norv's number 1 pupil. And Norv was so bad as a coach here and in Oakland but he did well in SD with a good QB. So I do have second thoughts on what he would be with a good QB all his time here. 

 

Back to Scott though. This may be cart before house but will we be in a question with Scott and Ron like we were with Jay sand McVay? Do I want Ron more than Scott? I think so, but I really don't know. Can Scott build a locker room like Ron has? Will our offense go back to the run run run types of Scott leaves ? Would Scott take Zanpeze too? 

 

I am not a coordinator-play calling > leadership-personality kind of guy for HC.  I used to be but I am not anymore.  So many of the playcallers but not leader of men types flame out as head coaches.

 

Our best coaches during Dan's reign were Marty and Gibbs both were leaders of men types, no longer hot shot X and O's types.  As much as i like (but far from love) Scott as an offensive coordinator, I think he'd be almost Zorn level ridiculous pick as a head coach.  He's not as zany as Zorn but he strikes me almost as odd as a choice to lead a locker room.  To me Scott, is just way too low key, comes off a bit shy and akward, not much charisma, has no presence IMO that I can tell.  He'd be my last choice among the coordinators who work here as HC at least among the coordinators that I've seen interviewed.  

 

I know its an odd thing to say for me, as a dude who probably defended Scott as much as anyone here.  But IMHO he would be a cringe worthy choice as HC.  I like him as a coordinator but as a CEO type running the team I'd borderline gag. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I watched Fields. I thought he looked sharp. Fast release, good pocket awareness and presence. One of his best passes was where he got pressured, changed arm angles and let a pass rip to the sideline while getting hit in a spot that only his receiver could get to.

 

It was incomplete as it was off target (too far ahead of receiver) but instead of losing 6 yards on a sack and it being 2nd and 16 it was 2nd and 10. 
 

He looked comfortable and smooth.

 

His offensive line was absolute trash. 
 

And that’s going to be the story of Fields all season long.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Wasn't one of Fields's knocks coming out of college that he held the ball too long and was slow to process information? 

 

Often times QBs are just as responsible if not more so for the pressure they face.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I watched Fields. I thought he looked sharp. Fast release, good pocket awareness and presence. One of his best passes was where he got pressured, changed arm angles and let a pass rip to the sideline while getting hit in a spot that only his receiver could get to.

 

It was incomplete as it was off target (too far ahead of receiver) but instead of losing 6 yards on a sack and it being 2nd and 16 it was 2nd and 10. 
 

He looked comfortable and smooth.

 

His offensive line was absolute trash. 
 

And that’s going to be the story of Fields all season long.

Interesting. I caveat my opinion with there was a lot going on and I couldn't rewind and take a second look. That said....

 

I agree the OL looked like trash.

 

But I think there were two early plays where I noticed his footwork was just really lazy.  He was better on the move.  Ironically, I think he was better when the protection broke down, and he had to move outside the pocket.  I think he did a good job evading and throwing on the move. 

The best play I saw, he had a play-action to his right, rolled left, reset his feet and hit the TE in the gut for a good gain.  

 

I still think he has a ways to go. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

22 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Wasn't one of Fields's knocks coming out of college that he held the ball too long and was slow to process information? 

 

Often times QBs are just as responsible if not more so for the pressure they face.

Eh, from what I saw, the pressure was pretty immediate, and it looked like one of the interior guys was just beat immediately.  I am not going to put the pressure on fields based on what I saw.

 

Except on the play where he just lazily drifted backwards, where it was tough to tell what he was supposed to do, then protection broke down.  

[KDawg]

47 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Wasn't one of Fields's knocks coming out of college that he held the ball too long and was slow to process information? 

 

Often times QBs are just as responsible if not more so for the pressure they face.

You’re right, I don’t know what I’m watching and can’t tell the difference between a bad OL and a QB at fault.

[Koolblue13]

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Mobile Madden just got updated...playing with Wentz behind center is so damn fun lol. I was switching back and forth between Fitz and Heinicke before. Hope the real season is as fun as the mobile Madden season has been so far.

[KDawg]

29 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I actually agree he didn’t pull the trigger fast enough on a few of those. But that OL was beaten to a pulp. 
 

He’s in a real bad situation and due to that, his OL and his needs for development (he does need to develop) he’s going to have a bad year and he’s going to get the bust label. Which is absolutely partially his fault. It’s a Haskins situation here except allegedly getting puts in the work.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Yeah, I think it's the second play that I noticed.  It's a blitz, but Fields takes a 9 step drop, and to my eyes, it's kindof "lazy." Something burned into my memory was a video where Bill Walsh was teaching footwork technique, and the QB demonstrating it was Joe Montana.  

 

Walsh said on a 5 step drop, you need 3 BIG fast steps, which should cover 5 yards, 2 small choppy ones.  If you have a 7 step drop, you have 5 BIG steps, which covers something like 8 yards, then 2 choppy ones to stop.  

 

They never discussed 9 step drops, because I don't think I've ever heard a 9 step drop designed.  

 

To me, Fields looks like he is sortof lollygagging backwards on that play. Didn't have the intensity in the drop back, or the clean footwork.

 

Now, I don't think Fields has a lot of experience working under center, so that could be an area which they are working with him on to develop his skills.  

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, I think it's the second play that I noticed.  It's a blitz, but Fields takes a 9 step drop, and to my eyes, it's kindof "lazy." Something burned into my memory was a video where Bill Walsh was teaching footwork technique, and the QB demonstrating it was Joe Montana.  

 

Walsh said on a 5 step drop, you need 3 BIG fast steps, which should cover 5 yards, 2 small choppy ones.  If you have a 7 step drop, you have 5 BIG steps, which covers something like 8 yards, then 2 choppy ones to stop.  

 

They never discussed 9 step drops, because I don't think I've ever heard a 9 step drop designed.  

 

To me, Fields looks like he is sortof lollygagging backwards on that play. Didn't have the intensity in the drop back, or the clean footwork.

 

Now, I don't think Fields has a lot of experience working under center, so that could be an area which they are working with him on to develop his skills.  

Agree on this play. If your original point was that play in particular I am in complete agreement. I was talking more of an overall situation. 
 

I can’t tell if this is him reverting to Ohio State form or if he is genuinely terrified of his OL. Tough spot to try to develop. I have a feeling he’s going to flop in Chicago and bounce around after.

Edited August 19, 2022 by KDawg

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

You’re right, I don’t know what I’m watching and can’t tell the difference between a bad OL and a QB at fault.

Geezus people get so sensitive when their favored prospects don't look so hot and their weaknesses are exposed.

 

Relax.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

14 hours ago, mojo said:

Wonderful…I’m not sure that’s something you can teach out of a guy.  He’s going to wow one minute by pulling out of a rush and hitting a bomb downfield then deflate when he gets pummeled and fumbling.  It’s reminiscent of RG3. Jay said that was his biggest downfall, never giving up on a play.

Our starting qb and rb both have fumblitis? Yikes 😱

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Agree on this play. If your original point was that play in particular I am in complete agreement. I was talking more of an overall situation. 
 

I can’t tell if this is him reverting to Ohio State form or if he is genuinely terrified of his OL. Tough spot to try to develop. I have a feeling he’s going to flop in Chicago and bounce around after.

As I mentioned, I was watching the game on a TV over a crowd of people, and couldn't entirely focus on everything, but this play really stood out as "bad footwork." 

 

I still think he's got a ways to go before he's a Top 15-type guy.  We'll see.  I wasn't as high on Fields as you were, but I think he was in a terrible situation last year, and we'll see how he does.

 

It's also a new coach and scheme, and probably some new techniques. 

 

For about 3 days, there was a chance Wilson was interested in Chicago.  If he went to Chicago, I wanted to see if we could get Fields here.  

 

Clearly none of that happened.  I do think Wentz this year is ahead of Fields this year, but how that plays out over time, who knows.  

30 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Our starting qb and rb both have fumblitis? Yikes 😱

Again, Wentz had 8 fumbles last year, good for the 17th ranking (1 being the worst)

 

And Gibson isn't going to be our starting running back.  At least, he is not going to be the RB with the most carries.  

[KDawg]

50 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Geezus people get so sensitive when their favored prospects don't look so hot and their weaknesses are exposed.

 

Relax.

Nah. I’m fine. Fields is unfairly criticized in many ways but he absolutely has some faults that need to be corrected. He does hold the ball too long. But last night, for the most part, he looked fine. But there was immediate pressure on a good portion of the plays. The guy is under constant duress.

 

He won’t be able to develop behind that line so his faults (holding the ball too long) are going to cause him to flop. That is as much as a him problem as it is a Chicago problem. But his situation isn’t conducive to development, either.