The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

Wentz wasn't awesome and wasn't awful. He was solid, smooth and professional and what else could we want for the very first outting? 

 

I'm satisfied and excited to see it get better.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Wentz wasn't awesome and wasn't awful. He was solid, smooth and professional and what else could we want for the very first outting? 

 

I'm satisfied and excited to see it get better.

 

I think he was good.  Agree not awesome.  But good start IMO, I agree.

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Our schedule should help make it that way at least. 

I'm onboard with you're listed eval, though the schedule is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Both JAX and DET are talented rosters and better defenses. Multiple instances during the schedule WSH plays opponents with more rest and the team has the worst bye in week 14 with far less roster depth.

 

Team is literally 1 injury away from incompetent at each level of the defense. With 2 LB'ers who don't complement each other and insisting that CB play as the 3rd LB'er. Bad scheme that doesn't work and is easily exploitable. Opposing offensive coordinators drool over calling games vs JDR's terrible defense. Always an open guy in the middle or it's open deep. It's a BAD SCHEME - BAD COACH.
 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think he was good.  Agree not awesome.  But good start IMO, I agree.

I'm happy with it.

 

I know I'm a lot more excited about Wentz and Robinson, than Heini/Fitz and Gibson.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm happy with it.

 

I know I'm a lot more excited about Wentz and Robinson, than Heini/Fitz and Gibson.

 

Fitz was one of my fav FAs last year but that's purely in the context of the usual bad crop of FA Qbs.  Wentz is definitely in another echelon IMO. 

 

I liked Gibson before that draft, I still do, but the fumbles have to stop.  I also liked Robinson before the draft and he is IMO the more polished RB of the two.

 

As for Heinicke.  IMO he's a backup.  He's not an NFL starter. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Fitz was one of my fav FAs last year but that's purely in the context of the usual bad crop of FA Qbs.  Wentz is definitely in another echelon IMO. 

 

I liked Gibson before that draft, I still do, but the fumbles have to stop.  I also liked Robinson before the draft and he is IMO the more polished RB of the two.

 

As for Heinicke.  IMO he's a backup.  He's not an NFL starter. 

I think Howell should be #2 and might work his way up to #2 before the PS or the season is over with.  Arm strength and running ability are much better than TH.  I really like TH too but as our #3.  

Edited August 14, 2022 by RWJ

[Koolblue13]

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Seems like Carson is getting good reviews from the local media, only naysayer that I've noticed is Sheehan who thinks Wentz was just "ok" yesterday and thought he struggled on some throws. 

 

 

 

 

Keim is saying what I was saying, that my fear was Wentz would be underwhelming like I thought Fitz was last preseason and was glad that didn’t happen. Can’t remember who said it on this thread (hell, might have been you lol) but Wentz made the offense look like an actual NFL offense…he also looked HUGE out there at times, really underscored just how much I got used to seeing Heinicke’s smaller stature out there.

 

 

16 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I think Howell should be #2 and might work his way up to #2 before the PS or the season is over with.  Arm strength and running ability are much better than TH.  I really like TH too but as our #3.  

Not sure his running ability is any better than Heinicke’s…TH can seriously run. Arm strength is beyond question, though. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, TChaler70 said:

This post sums up a lot of posts here and just shows how ridiculous this place and this teams fans have become, really, so you would live with Howell coming into a tie game late in the season with the NFC east, a 3rd seed and a home playoff game on the line? All this after seeing Howell play one preseason game against guys that wont be in the league in 3 weeks...brilliant! Also, talking about dumb downed offense I guess you missed most of the passing plays with one read, predetermined passes Howell had yesterday.

 

Is this how other fans are around the league, so in the minute reactionary?

 

 

So, a few things:

 

1. Taylor Heinicke was LITERALLY sleeping on his sister's couch until December 2020, when he was brought in to be an emergency COVID/All Our QBs are getting hurt options.  He had, up to that point, started (I think) 2 games, and been lost to injury in both of them.  

2. Taylor Heinicke played one quarter of meaningless football in a loss to the Panthers to relieve a very ineffective Haskins (RIP).  He played somewhere between "ok and well"

3. Taylor Heinicke then started the playoff game because Smith was hurt, Haskins had been released, and Allen was on IR.  He did so having played something like a grand total of 12 quarters of football, and only once had left a game un-injured.

4. Taylor Heinicke played as well as could reasonably be expected in the playoff game, so all credit to him for that.  

5. Taylor Heinicke then was signed to a 2 year, $4M contract, which is not even a very good backup QB deal, if we're being honest.  

6. The team IMMEDIATELY went out to try and sign a veteran, because they knew TH was a backup.  They tried for Stafford and then got Fitzy.

7. TH had to play because Fitz was hurt 16 snaps into 2021. 

8. TH played about like you would expect a backup to play.  "Meh" to "bad" with a couple really good games thrown in.  

 

So, the question you posed: could I live with Howell, a 5th round pick who played at a fairly high level in the ACC coming into a game late in the season with a home playoff game on the line vs. TH.

 

Well, sure.  In fact, we lived with TH coming in and starting a playoff game when he'd been on the team for 6 weeks, hadn't played for a couple years, and got hurt in every start in his career. We lived with TH being a journeyman, not very talented, inexperienced QB all of last year.  I know what he can do.  I don't think TH could win a game like that anyway.  So, Id be willing to take my chances with Howell, how at the very least has mobility, moxey, a great arm, and by that point, will probably have a reasonably good handle on the offense.

 

How different would be from Cousins coming in to start the Browns game in 2012 when Griffin was hurt over Grossman, who was the more proven, "safe" option? 

 

So, yeah, I'd be fine with it.  

So I listened to Keim's podcast, he basically said there will be no competition for the backup job, it's TH's, and that's that.  Howell needs to develop into a good backup this year so he can be the backup next year.

 

I am sure that's the current plan.  But if what happens yesterday happens the next 2 games, maybe Ron changes his mind.

 

But again, TH is his/Scott Turner's binky.  So I doubt they will discard him quickly.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

How different would be from Cousins coming in to start the Browns game in 2012 when Griffin was hurt over Grossman, who was the more proven, "safe" option? 

 

So, yeah, I'd be fine with it.  

 

I was thinking the same thing.  Cousins like Howell was a surprise faller in the draft, in his case into the 4th round.  Kirk had an NFL caliber arm back then, still does.  As does Howell. 

 

Kirk played well in that game which they had to win to take the East, ditto coming in relief a little in the Ravens game.

 

Be one thing if this is a SB season.  But that's unlikely.  Developing Howell and giving him game experience IMO is good for the long term future of this team or at a minimum it would give them an opportunity to see if they need to fish for a QB in the 2023 draft which in theory is supposed to be QB rich -- on the off chance Wentz doesn't work out. 

25 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Keim is saying what I was saying, that my fear was Wentz would be underwhelming like I thought Fitz was last preseason and was glad that didn’t happen. Can’t remember who said it on this thread (hell, might have been you lol) but Wentz made the offense look like an actual NFL offense…he also looked HUGE out there at times, really underscored just how much I got used to seeing Heinicke’s smaller stature out there.

 

I wouldn't bet the mortgage on Wentz where I am 100% confident or even 90% confident he's the answer.  But for me I'd put it around 70% chance.   In his career, he's been streaky, hot and cold, more hot than cold.  So I am mentally braced for some bad games among the good.  But I am hoping and expecting more good than bad.

 

What I am jazzed about the most is his best can be elite level great which is something we've not seen since 2012 RG3.  So i think that can be fun.  But who knows, will see. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

His last podcast. 

Sheehan is going to Sheehan.  He needs Wentz to suck so he can pea**** around and say how smart he was to have hated the trade from the beginning.  And he's going to stretch the "he sucks" narrative as far as he can without being called an absolute fool by everybody.

 

I think he has his audience who basically are former Redskins fans who hate everything, and he likes to toss red meat at them.  Frankly, if the team starts to do well, I wonder what he's going to do.  He wont be able to turn every segment into a Dan segment, and every show into a "it sucks" show.

 

Question: did you listen to the podcast where Thom apparently had a "Wentz Bold Prediction?"  It was a couple of days ago.  Was it the same as before, he is predicting the team and locker room are going to turn on Wentz by Halloween and everybody, team and fans are going to be screaming for TH?  I haven't (and really don't plan to) listen, but he's made that prediction on Galdi's podcast, and I'm betting it's the same drivel.  

[RWJ]

29 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Keim is saying what I was saying, that my fear was Wentz would be underwhelming like I thought Fitz was last preseason and was glad that didn’t happen. Can’t remember who said it on this thread (hell, might have been you lol) but Wentz made the offense look like an actual NFL offense…he also looked HUGE out there at times, really underscored just how much I got used to seeing Heinicke’s smaller stature out there.

 

 

Not sure his running ability is any better than Heinicke’s…TH can seriously run. Arm strength is beyond question, though. 

True Cali.  I should have backed off the mobility as they are close but I think Howell is better.   

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Be one thing if this is a SB season.  But that's unlikely.  Developing Howell and giving him game experience IMO is good for the long term future of this team or at a minimum it would give them an opportunity to see if they need to fish for a QB in the 2023 draft which in theory is supposed to be QB rich -- on the off chance Wentz doesn't work out. 

If we had to win the 15th game of the season (whatever that is), I actually think Howell gives us a better shot than TH.  They would implement the exact same game plan for both QBs: Run the stuffing out of the ball.  It would make @TradeTheBeal!'s day.

 

And I would say, in that game plan, Howell actually gives them a few more things than TH does, because he CAN stretch the field, and he CAN hit the quick-outs which TH just doesn't have the arm to do.

 

Now, I think Ron would go with TH.  Because that's the safe, known commodity.

 

But I would take my shot with Howell.  I think the odds are you lose the game either way.  I'd like my chances with the guy who can do more.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Sheehan is going to Sheehan.  He needs Wentz to suck so he can pea**** around and say how smart he was to have hated the trade from the beginning.  And he's going to stretch the "he sucks" narrative as far as he can without being called an absolute fool by everybody.

 

I think in a weird way Sheehan's segments with Cooley over the years has gotten to his head because Cooley would do evaluations so then Sheehan would try, too.  And as I pointed out previously, Sheehan has been wrong about a bunch of his evaluations and he only owns up to some of the ones he got wrong.   I don't really care about his or any radio hosts evaluations of players and what they get right ot wrong.  Sheehan has enough stuff going for him -- where i don't get why he's become a bit fixated on "getting things right."  Old school Sheehan didn't really delve into that stuff much.  He's become like Skip Balyess on that front -- obsessed with being proven right.  Sheehan is entertaining and informative IMO -- he needs to let go of his "evaluations" and playing scout IMO or if he sticks to doing it -- let it go or at a minimum be honest about it.  His go to tactic is if he gets 5 things royally wrong, he will own up to 2 of them.  And then go on and on about what he got right.  He ironically also scolds his callers when they say they got this or that right.    

 

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I think he has his audience who basically are former Redskins fans who hate everything, and he likes to toss red meat at them.  Frankly, if the team starts to do well, I wonder what he's going to do.  He wont be able to turn every segment into a Dan segment, and every show into a "it sucks" show.

 

 

I don't mind his Dan rants.  I think it reflects well some of the fan base which is that Dan has killed some of their fandom.  With Sheehan it comes off sincere on that front.  So it doesn't bother me -- instead it makes me a little said because I recall how enthusiastic he once was for the team.  to me that's on Dan.  I don't blame Sheehan for feeling the way he does.

 

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Question: did you listen to the podcast where Thom apparently had a "Wentz Bold Prediction?"  It was a couple of days ago.  Was it the same as before, he is predicting the team and locker room are going to turn on Wentz by Halloween and everybody, team and fans are going to be screaming for TH?  I haven't (and really don't plan to) listen, but he's made that prediction on Galdi's podcast, and I'm betting it's the same drivel.  

 

I didn't.   But I'll say Sheehan, Thom and to some extext Hoffman stick out as the local media guys who seem to refuse to buy into Wentz.  Even Russell, who I know you don't like, has backed off and has said some good things about Wentz.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't mind his Dan rants.  I think it reflects well some of the fan base which is that Dan has killed some of their fandom.  With Sheehan it comes off sincere on that front.  So it doesn't bother me -- instead it makes me a little said because I recall how enthusiastic he once was for the team.  to me that's on Dan.  I don't blame Sheehan for feeling the way he does.

I know.  Because you are part of the target audience.  

 

I, on the other hand, finds it exhausting that literally every segment I've listened to Sheehan for the past 6 months has reverted in some way to Dan.  Even the Terry McLaurin signing turned into a Dan Rant.  Literally, every time I turn on anything, good or bad, it's all about Dan.  Dan destroyed this, Dan destroyed that, Dan is awful, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan.  Always Dan.  

 

There is a crowd, and you are one of them, where this resonates. 

 

It doesn't resonate to me.  

 

Which is absolutely, totally, and completely fine.  Different strokes for different folks. 

 

I might tune in more once the season starts just to see if he can go an entire football segment without it becoming about Dan. If he can, I might start tuning in more.  

 

I used to really like Sheehan.  I've been listening to him for the better part of 20 years.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Wentz have a shot?

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I know.  Because you are part of the target audience.  

 

I, on the other hand, finds it exhausting that literally every segment I've listened to Sheehan for the past 6 months has reverted in some way to Dan.  Even the Terry McLaurin signing turned into a Dan Rant.  Literally, every time I turn on anything, good or bad, it's all about Dan.  Dan destroyed this, Dan destroyed that, Dan is awful, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan.  Always Dan.  

 

There is a crowd, and you are one of them, where this resonates. 

 

It doesn't resonate to me.  

 

Which is absolutely, totally, and completely fine.  Different strokes for different folks. 

 

I might tune in more once the season starts just to see if he can go an entire football segment without it becoming about Dan. If he can, I might start tuning in more.  

 

I used to really like Sheehan.  I've been listening to him for the better part of 20 years.  

 

I listen to Sheehan all the time.  i don't find him turning everything into a Dan segment.    Dan ironically according to Sheehan has about a 5% approval rate with Washington fans.  So i'd hope i am part of his target audience.  He'd be a fool to focus on the 5%. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Bifflog]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Dan ironically according to Sheehan has about a 5% approval rate with Washington fans.  So i'd hope i am part of his target audience.  He'd be a fool to focus on the 5%. 

 

You don't have to approve of Dan Snyder to grow weary of the refrain.  It's low effort and a waste of time.

[xxprodigyxx]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I listen to Sheehan all the time.  i don't find him turning everything into a Dan segment.    Dan ironically according to Sheehan has about a 5% approval rate with Washington fans.  So i'd hope i am part of his target audience.  He'd be a fool to focus on the 5%. 

5% approval rate doesn't mean 95% wouldn't love hearing dan get dunked on day in and day out.

[Skinsinparadise]

As I said in my post, I don't find that Sheehan is dunking on Dan every day. But he does sometimes.  And dunking on Dan doesn't upset me.  If dunking on Dan irritates some, that's cool, to each their own.

[TheBlueIndian]

12 minutes ago, xxprodigyxx said:

 

13 minutes ago, xxprodigyxx said:

5% approval rate doesn't mean 95% wouldn't love hearing dan get dunked on day in and day out.

It is low hanging fruit and exhausting.  He has turned his show into something that is truly unlistenable especially when he has Thom on.

He has morphed into one of those guys who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. It's a shame that he has allowed Dan to live rent free in his head. 

I remember when his encyclopedic knowledge of DC sports was the driving force of his shows, now he just sounds like a bitter ex girlfriend. 

 

Pleased with what we got from Wentz and Howell, definitely trending upward right now , which is not what we usually do this time of year. Concerned with Gibson putting the ball on the ground already,  at this point it's like he has the yips. I hope it's more mental than fundamental because that cat is pretty exciting and is a playmaker.

[SkinsFTW]

11 minutes ago, TheBlueIndian said:

 

I hope it's more mental than fundamental because that cat is pretty exciting and is a playmaker.

 

I don't know but gripping a football seems pretty fundamental to me. It's not like he's trying to hit a 100Mph fastball and keeps missing. He's already holding the ball! Just stop dropping the damned thing!

[Rex Tomb]

17 minutes ago, TheBlueIndian said:

 

It is low hanging fruit and exhausting.  He has turned his show into something that is truly unlistenable especially when he has Thom on.

He has morphed into one of those guys who thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. It's a shame that he has allowed Dan to live rent free in his head. 

I remember when his encyclopedic knowledge of DC sports was the driving force of his shows, now he just sounds like a bitter ex girlfriend. 

 

Pleased with what we got from Wentz and Howell, definitely trending upward right now , which is not what we usually do this time of year. Concerned with Gibson putting the ball on the ground already,  at this point it's like he has the yips. I hope it's more mental than fundamental because that cat is pretty exciting and is a playmaker.

Ever since Cooley left his show, it’s been second or third tier.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I listen to Sheehan all the time.  i don't find him turning everything into a Dan segment.    Dan ironically according to Sheehan has about a 5% approval rate with Washington fans.  So i'd hope i am part of his target audience.  He'd be a fool to focus on the 5%. 

I'm not sure where 5% came from, I'd think it would be closer to .000001%.  Literally, I can't think of anybody who really "approves" of the job he's doing or has done.  There was that one caller, Ian? Ivan?  or something who moved to Florida who would defend Dan.  Who else?  

 

I dunno, I stopped because I just couldn't hear about Dan in every segment of literally every show. I get it.  He's terrible.  I've lived through it for the past 30 years also.  I don't need to hear about it for 1.5 hours a day in addition.  Granted, I listen to his podcast more than the radio show.  So maybe there is a difference there.  

 

And btw, it's not just me, a few others have posted that all he can talk about is Dan and gambling.  Maybe it's that I don't bet on sports (never have) so even though I also don't approve of Dan, I just don't care to hear about Dan all the time.  I think the Terry McLaurin thing really rubbed me the wrong way.  Literally the day after we signed Terry, he turned the "hey, we signed Terry" in his Podcast into a referendum on Dan.  I mean, one day, one piece of good news, and he couldn't even run with it being a good day and having good news without ****ing about Dan.  

 

40 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

I don't know but gripping a football seems pretty fundamental to me. It's not like he's trying to hit a 100Mph fastball and keeps missing. He's already holding the ball! Just stop dropping the damned thing!

There is only one player I can remember who had a serious case of fumble-itis and then resolved it: Tiki Barber.  Other than that, if you're a fumbler, you're a fumbler, and you don't get a lot of opportunities to get better at it.  

 

Tiki changed his fundamentals, where he carried the ball, how he carried it, when he switched hands and when he put 2 hands on it.  And it got fixed. 

 

Gibson needs to call Tiki and pay him money to come teach him how to not fumble.  Seriously, this is ridiculous.  

 

I like Gibby, but he's going to be out of the league really soon if he doesn't fix it.  

[NickyJ]

Just stumbled across an Indianapolis fan today

 

Quote

 

Him: hot trash Carson Wentz.
 

Me: mm, philly or indy fan?
 

Him: Born and raised in Indy 😆
Admittedly I wanted Carson to do well, but hoo boy - he was not good.
 

Me: if only all not good QBs could throw 27 touchdowns to 7 interceptions while being chained to an offense that goes through a runningback
Comparing him to Luck and Manning, yeah, sure
But compared to everybody else, like Brisset and Rivers..... yeah
 

Him: His good moments were good, but his bad moments were game killers.
 

Me: Unfair to assume he was Luck or Manning level for sure, but I would have preferred a second season of Rivers

 

In two and a half months, I want so bad for us to crush the Colts just so I can remind him that he got owned by hot trash Carson Wentz.