The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Darth Tater]

14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Not sure how we'd be entering the fray for a guy who has final say over where he gets traded and who, according to multiple reports, does not have Washington on his short list and is pretty strict about who he'll waive his no-trade clause for.

Only thing I could think of is Houston has something else we want so by helping them drive up the Watson price, they'll give it to us for cheap.

[Skinsinparadise]

Another piece of evidence that Wentz wanted out.  ala what the Eagles reporter said on Sheehan's show.

 

Yet the narrative to most of the local reporters and some national is that the Eagles divorced Wentz.

 

 

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/sports/nfl/eagles/2021/09/22/zach-ertz-trade-philadelphia-eagles-76-ers-ben-simmons-carson-wentz/5800848001/

Wentz, meanwhile, bristled at pretty much everything last season, the worst of his career. Then when the Eagles benched him last Dec. 6 for the rest of the season, he reportedly wanted out, believing that he couldn't play for head coach Doug Pederson anymore.

 

The Eagles fired Pederson after the season and replaced him with Nick Sirianni. Wentz still didn't want to return.

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

16 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

I like how you just pull arbitrary numbers out of your ass, I mean thin air, to give your point more validity. There isn't one single backup QB in the league who can do houdini acts and side arm Bates on 4th and 1 to move the chains and win against Brady led Tampa team. 

He must be thinking of Haskins...I'm sure he thinks Dwayne is better than TH too. 

[HoggLife]

Okay what if Wentz in soooo good that Indi wouldn't trade him to Houston because they wanted Wentz out of the AFC. So we traded for Wentz fully with the hidden intention of trading him to Houston for Watson. See all you complaining about this Wentz trade need to go spank yourself. Our front office knows what it's doing. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by HoggLife

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

More of a prayer. Watson came onto a loaded team and he only improved them slightly. In his one chance to show that he could be the man, he couldn't carry the team. Further, in 2018 our defenses biggest problem came when we faced good QBs. We shut down Watson that day and would have won it had it not been for Reid's 101 yard int return (along with the 7 they got, it cost us at least 3) or an admitted non-call.

I'm not a fan of the player and think hes over hyped,  but if Watson the garbage can of a person was on a team I liked, they'd become my least favorite. Ala Ben Steelers and Vick eagles.

[KillBill26]

Imagine the mushroom cloud around here if wash and hou agree to terms for Watson, and then Watson says no.

[Est.1974]

If Watson is cleared of criminal charges as expected, I mean...and you trade for him, franchise QB for 10 years without fail. Erm, yeah i will take that.

 

Wentz, yep more than happy with that move too. Was probably my 4th choice at worst.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

Source is listed as sheehan podcast and post was editied at 10AM

 

If there was anything there SIP woulda caught it.

 

 

Your first instinct of it not being legit is prob the correct one.

 

 

I was drinking a fifth of Kettle One vodka when I read this and decided to call up my buddy Kevin Sheehan to get the straight deal.

 

He was working on a three piece at Bojangles but in between bites and burps he basically confirmed EVERYTHING!! It's all true!

 

Doesn't matter that no one else has reported or mentioned any interest whatsoever by Watson in the Commanders. Deals all but signed sealed and ready for delivery.

 

He said to expect a signing announcement in the next 90 days and a press conference a few months after that.

 

Gonna call up my buddy Ron Rivera next to congratulate him and see if he can get me super bowl tickets for next year.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I think Carolina is the most desperate to trade for Watson

 

They are certainly the team that has been linked to him the most and by a mile for over a year.  According to one report, they even had a deal in place a year ago for him but Watson said no.  Supposedly Watson is willing to go there this time, Will see.

[FLSkinz83]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Another piece of evidence that Wentz wanted out.  ala what the Eagles reporter said on Sheehan's show.

 

Yet the narrative to most of the local reporters and some national is that the Eagles divorced Wentz.

 

 

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/sports/nfl/eagles/2021/09/22/zach-ertz-trade-philadelphia-eagles-76-ers-ben-simmons-carson-wentz/5800848001/

Wentz, meanwhile, bristled at pretty much everything last season, the worst of his career. Then when the Eagles benched him last Dec. 6 for the rest of the season, he reportedly wanted out, believing that he couldn't play for head coach Doug Pederson anymore.

 

The Eagles fired Pederson after the season and replaced him with Nick Sirianni. Wentz still didn't want to return.

 

 

 

 

The media lies, distorts, have agenda's, etc.     

 

If Snyder talked to the media, do you think they would call him the worst owner in sports?   Of course not.

[HigSkin]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

I like how you just pull arbitrary numbers out of your ass, I mean thin air, to give your point more validity. There isn't one single backup QB in the league who can do houdini acts and side arm Bates on 4th and 1 to move the chains and win against Brady led Tampa team. 

As I said, it's my opinion.  What I think I said is about half the backups in the league could do about the same.  I think the following backups could have performed about the same as TH last season, and gotten similar results:

 

Arizona: Colt McCoy.  (Though in fairness, he might have gotten hurt.)

Baltimore: Tyler Huntley

Bills: Mitch

Panthers: Cam Newton?? Maybe. Maybe not.  I'm not sure. I think there's a chance with Ron and Scott Turner he could at least perform at the level TH did.  

Bears: Dalton, except he got injured.  Maybe Nick Foles.  (Foles is so tough to evaluate because he's kindof sucked everywhere but Philly. But we know he has some spectacular play in him.  He ALSO beat Brady, except he beat Brady in a SB.)

Cleveland: Case Keenum

Texans: Tyrod Taylor. (TECHNICALLY Watson was the 3rd string QB for the Texans, but we're not going to count him.)

Chiefs: Chad Henne

Raiders: Mariota

Chargers: Chase Daniel ** I am not sure about this.  He's been in the league forever because everybody likes him, but he doesn't play for similar reasons to TH. But I've said over and over that they are the same guy, so I'm going to continue that thought saying if they are the same guy, they'd get the same results. 

Dolphins: Jacoby Brissett

Eagles: Minshew

Steelers: Mason Rudolph

49ers: I'm not going to count Trey Lance because we have no idea, and he hasn't played, but in my gut, I believe he would be better than TH even as a rookie.

 

That's about 14 teams.  I know you're going to come back and say all those guys suck, and TH is better than all of them, and WOW, he beat Brady, Wilson, blah blah blah. But the fact is, in most cases, we would get similar-ish production. Some games might be better, some games might be worse, but over a 15 game stretch, it probably ends up being about the same.  

 

Each of those guys has had some success in the NFL. And some failure, because they are limited, which is why they are backups.  But the bar of performance is pretty low.  The winning streak, as has been pointed out a million times, was mostly the result of Gibson and the defense.  TH played one really good game, one ok game, and 2 "meh" games in the midst of that winning streak.  Each of the guys on that list is capable of one really good game, one ok game, and 2 "Meh" games.  

 

Statistically, TH had 20 TDs, 15 INTs.  A QBR of 39.5 (23 of 31), a passer rating of 85.9 (25th out of 37).  We could look at more advanced stats (PFF Grade, etc) but they are all in the bottom third of the league.  

 

And again, I seriously have no problem with TH as a middle-of-the-pack backup.  Which is what he is.  He did the absolute best he could with what he has.  And he is a competitor, and a good teammate, and as Mahew said, "he got a field promotion" right at the beginning of the season.

 

But the outlandish statements that he is more than he is, that no other backup QB can match his production is just silly at this point.

 

To think there aren't other backups who couldn't scrape out bottom third of the league stats over 15 starts and 16 games is silly.  Surely some could. TH is not definitively the 33rd best QB in the NFL. He's in the pack with about 15-20 guys as solid backup guys who can play in a pinch, but probably shouldn't play too much.  And that IS NOT an insult.  I like to say there are, at any given point, somewhere between 12-18 people walking the earth who ABSOLUTELY deserve one of the 32 NFL starting jobs.  I haven't said this, but it's also true, that there are generally about 20-ish people who ABSOLUTELY deserve one of the 32 backup jobs.  And I firmly put TH in that category, and I've never said differently.  The problem occurs when you take one of the 20 guys who should be a backup and they have to be a starter.  That typically ends in disaster.  And that happens with about 10-12 teams per year, because they don't have one of the starters.  

 

Another key point: There are 64 starting and backup QB jobs.  I think there are typically about 40 qualified people to fill those. So teams are reaching all the time.  

 

NOTE: I'm NOT saying all of these guys are necessarily appreciably better.  That wasn't my point.  And my point wasn't to degrade TH's performance last year. It's just kindof factual.  TH put up a bottom 1/3 of the league performance, and there are other QBs who could also put up a bottom 1/3 of the league performance.  

 

Also, the TH story is fantastic, and he should be very proud of his accomplishments.  He started a playoff game and played well.  He took over in week 1 for a starter, and played 15 games.   He went from living on his sister's couch to starting in the NFL.  He's a good dude. He'll give it his all, and he's a competitor.  He's easy to root for, in the right context.  

 

I have absolutely no problem with him on the team, if he's the backup or third stringer.  I happen to think we're going to draft a guy, and that guy will either be the backup in 2022 or 2023, which puts TH's roster spot in jeopardy in 2023.  Because they HAVE to sign 2 more QBs just to hold camp.  I think one is going to be in the draft, probably in the 2nd - 4th round, and the other is most likely a UDFA. But unless something crazy happens, he's probably on the team in 2022, and competing with the rookie for the backup job.  Which he might win, and he might lose, we have no idea. 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

You are spot-on correct about all those points concerning Shanahan, RG3, and Cousins.

 

Gotta disagree with the "any backup QB in the league could have done what Heinicke did" stance, though. Or even half the backups.

 

Over the last 4 seasons we've had nothing but backup-QBs starting for us--Keenum, McCoy, Haskins, Allen, Gilbert, Sanchez, Johnson. All of them combined couldn't match the number of wins Heinicke did in 15 starts. So we really can't apply that logic with any conviction. We've trotted out 7 backups over the last several seasons who managed 6 wins in like 33 starts. Heinicke got 7 wins in 15 starts. And in those early wins last year he was a major reason for them--that defense early on was not bailing him out. Over the last two years the offense has scored 27 or more points only 5 times when anyone other than Alex Smith played. Heinicke had 4 of those 5 games, all wins.

 

Whatever Heinicke brought to the team and field were absolutely beneficial and helped lead to wins. And from the evidence we have,  those things were not something that half the backups in the league possess...because it obviously wasn't arm strength leading to those wins lol. But whatever those attributes are, they were absolutely needed, at least on this team.

First of all, I didn't say, or at least I didn't mean to say, ANY backup QB could do this.  What I thought I said was about half of the backups could put up similar numbers over 15 starts, mostly because the bar was pretty low.  

 

One thing I think is somewhat overlooked is how much Ron and Scott tailored the offense to Taylor, and in general, how good a job they did for the middle part of the season.  I think they could have done the same with a variety of other QBs, and in the end, gotten some similar results.

 

I totally don't discount the fact TH was a good teammate, and the guys rallied around him.  Sure they did.  And that was beneficial.  But I think there are other guys who could have matched the production.  Again, NOT all.  Some would have been abysmal.  But I think there are more than a handful who could have played at least as well as TH, and had the locker room behind him, at least to the extent our locker-room was behind TH.  

 

Maybe it's not half.  But I also don't think it's none.  Shrug.  It doesn't really matter.  What happened happened.  I'm really happy for TH and the fact he probably will have a job in the NFL as a backup for years, here or elsewhere, and will make a good life for himself doing it.  I think he's a good teammate and a good competitor.  I just don't think anybody is ever going 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

The media lies, distorts, have agenda's, etc.     

 

 

Agree.

 

8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

If Snyder talked to the media, do you think they would call him the worst owner in sports?   Of course not.

 

Synder was slammed hard even before he became a recluse.  So I disagree with your "of course not" comment especially in light of what's happened in recent years.  But I agree it wouldn't be to the same degree as harsh, I've made a variation of the same point on and off over the years -- its part of the reason why I say I don't feel sorry for Dan, he's made his own bed and part of that is not having the guts to face the music with the media.  

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But did he specifically say "way more upside"?

My fault, I should have paid more attention instead of skimming through your post.  I don't remember him emphasizing "way more upside" but I could have missed it.   I just remember when Sheehan put him on the spot as to what he would have done and he mentioned Winston first and then made a comment about Fitz.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by JSSkinz

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

My fault, I should have paid more attention instead of skimming through your post.  I don't remember him emphasizing "way more upside" but I could have missed it.   I just remember when Sheehan put him on the spot as to what he would have done and he mentioned Winston first and then made a comment about Fitz.

 

 

 

Yeah thanks. I do recall him preferring Winston but it seemed cost driven.  And it felt like the two players were apples to apples according to him so he felt Winston the better get because you didn't have to give up draft picks.  but as for "way more upside" as I said I might have missed it but I'd have to relisten to it . 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Bifflog]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I re-upped just to take a look at this full article, thanks for the heads up.

 

Not sure if I've seen this posted in here, if people are looking for more film breakdown on Wentz...

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

I think the best way to keep a measured approach on Wentz (assuming he ends up the Week 1 starter) is to just look at what routine NFL-calber throws Heinicke couldn't make and assume Wentz hits on 60% of those that were missed last season and as a bi-product many other things on the field open up.  While I do see Wentz as a big upgrade, it also has to do with just how down I was on Heinicke by the end of the season. I am not looking Wentz to come in here and repeat that run he had in Philly's SB season, I just want him to make the throws that could have won this team games in 2021.   

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[ClaytoAli]

[HoggLife]

I've been saying Wentz never has had a true #1 WR. But I didn't know he's the only QB to throw for 4000 years without a receiver having over 500 yards. That's crazy. 

[88Comrade2000]

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

I will DM you on something on C.  Remember this is not being directed at you, SIP, it's just adding to your convo.  As far as G. is concerned all the videos that I have watched show that Wentz has no issues at all.  He supports his teammates and is a good guy overall.  The banner thing was wrong for Foles.  Wentz got them there and Foles brought it home.  Foles played the games of his career that year after Wentz got hurt and has been nothing since. Can't imagine how Wentz felt when it was his team and he got them there and had to watch from the sidelines in crutches as they won.  One thing on Wentz though is he needs to let things go.  RR is a great HC when it comes to communicating with his players.   

He’s weak. Phil Simms got injured in 1990 and Jeff Hostetler won the SuperBowl. Didn’t affect him.

 

14-3, SuperBowl, etc..

You guys are dreaming.

 

This team at best will go 10-7 and maybe a playoff win.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, ClaytoAli said:

You can block him.  

[skinsfan4128]

31 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

He’s weak. Phil Simms got injured in 1990 and Jeff Hostetler won the SuperBowl. Didn’t affect him.

 

14-3, SuperBowl, etc..

You guys are dreaming.

 

This team at best will go 10-7 and maybe a playoff win.

You must be great at parties.

 

HTTR!