The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ridder and Strong are the ones I waffle on the most.  But I can easily see either player beating Trubisky and Heinicke in camp.

These are the two guys that have constantly been mentioned since before the Sr Bowl and there were a number of statements about not being overly concerned about a mobile QB. That leads me to think Strong could be the sleeper they like. Not sure if they are as strong on Strong after the bowl but I'd keep my eye on him moving forward if Pickett is not available at 11. 

[DJHJR86]

Signing Mitchell Trubisky and drafting Desmond Ridder will seal Rivera and Co.'s fate.  

[Hitman#21]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Signing Mitchell Trubisky and drafting Desmond Ridder will seal Rivera and Co.'s fate.  

 

I think it depends on what his options were and how he played it.    Ben Standig on the radio today keeps harping on its a QB league but he's never seen it as pronounced as it is now.  Some claim that its always been a 10 out of 10 through the roof as far as league sentiment for it being a QB league but I agree with Standig, yeah the point wasn't lost on people but its really gotten stratoshperic now.  The Rams move to get Stafford and win a SB with 45 million plus dedicated to the QB spot I think added to it some -- ditto the shoot out between Josh Allen and Herbert showed if you don't have a dude like that its really really tough.

 

The point I am leading to is I think Rivera might be given another shot in 2023 if it fails in 2022.  Dan is stupid but I am assuming not to the degree that he wouldn't get the fallout of firing Rivera before his contract is up.  

 

I got just one criticism for Rivera if it goes down like that.  It stuns me that seem think he doesn't value the spot -- he screams desperation, billboard level desperation for a big time QB.  Dudes like Trubisky are clearly not plan A for Rivera.  But if Keim is right, I get the impression that outside of Pickett they don't find much of a difference between Ridder, Strong versus Corral, Howell, Willis.  And if so, they better be right.  If Corral for example is the next Mac Jones caliber QB and Ridder flops they need to wear that if they are wrong.  If so, Rivera will look bad.  But I can't judge it in advance.  It has to play out.

 

Personally I think Corral, Howell >>> Ridder and Strong.  But if they feel differently, that's fine but they better be right.  And again who knows, right now this is purely judging their thinking by rumor. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

[kingdaddy]

50 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Funny, everyone seems to be TH sucks or they love him. Everyone should be thinking, him as a 3rd option is a team strength. Allen sucks. It is strange we have heard zippo regarding Fitz.

Not me, I see TH as a bargain for backup QB...perfect backup QB who needs to just keep working on his game. TH has twice gone toe-to-toe with Tom Brady and the Bucs and showed we can win with him. At 1.5 mil he's a bargain for us and his teammates love him. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

54 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Funny, everyone seems to be TH sucks or they love him. Everyone should be thinking, him as a 3rd option is a team strength. Allen sucks. It is strange we have heard zippo regarding Fitz.

He's fine as a 3rd option for sure, but I wouldn't care if that 3rd option was Heineke or Allen - can't expect too much at the 3rd spot.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

and his teammates love him. 

Has there been so much as a whisper out of anyone on the team that our QB is already on the roster?

 

I'm not saying they don't like or respect him, but if they truly believed they could win with him, they'd at least be whispering sweet nothings about how he should get a chance - even if they really don't mean it.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

With all of that, I do disagree with Jay Gruden that Heinicke could beat Trubisky in camp. 

Well, we all know Jay is a know nothing idiot.  (I jest, I jest)

 

But he does have a soft spot for physically limited try hard guys, see McCoy, Colt.

 

There is literally no way Mitch would get beaten out by TH because there won’t be a competition between them.  
 

Im convinced of they sign Mitch they will draft a guy.  Maybe Riddler in the second.  Maybe Strong.  Maybe they move back a few spots and grab somebody.  I am starting to feel like they wouldn’t do it at 11, unless Picket is there.  

But they will draft SOMEBODY.  And that somebody will get the second most amount of reps behind Mitch.   Maybe even Mitch + Somebody is a competition.  
 

But something else Jay said which I do agree with is it’s really hard to have a 3 way competition in camp because there aren’t enough reps.  
 

I think TH is squarely the #3 QB on the team after FA and the draft.  And he’s competing more to stay on the roster (rather than practice squad) than everything.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Skinsinparadise]

Good the Eagles are out on him

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

  and his teammates love him. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Well, we all know Jay is a know nothing idiot.  (I jest, I jest)

 

But he does have a soft spot for physically limited try hard guys, see McCoy, Colt.

 

There is literally I way Mitch would get beaten out by TH because there won’t be a competition between them.  
 

Im convinced of they sign Mitch they will draft a guy.  Maybe Riddler in the second.  Maybe Strong.  Maybe they move back a few spots and grab somebody.  I am starting to feel like they wouldn’t do it at 11, unless Picket is there.  

But they will draft SOMEBODY.  And that somebody will get the second most amount of reps behind Mitch.   Maybe even Mitch + Somebody is a competition.  
 

But something else Jay said which I do agree with is it’s really hard to have a 3 way competition in camp because there aren’t enough reps.  
 

I think TH is squarely the #3 QB on the team after FA and the draft.  And he’s competing more to stay on the roster (rather than practice squad) than everything.

 

As I mentioned Jay has no soft spot for Heinicke.  I've heard plenty of rap from Jay on Heinicke to know he's not sold.  He's polite about Taylor but he doesn't hide the fact that he's not taken by him.   He just clearly doesn't care for Trubisky.  It was funny listening to Shanny who makes appearances on Sheehan's shows from time to time and typically is polite about other players. 

 

Weeks back when Sheehan asked Shanny about Trubisky, Shanny goes, "no" in the context of should this team be interested or something like that.  I just recall Shanny was a hard no on Trubisky and came off actually nicer on Heinicke but not sold on him either.  So while Sheehan didn't ask Shanny to compare the two, it wouldn't surprise me if he'd pick Heinicke.

 

It doesn't mean I agree with them.  I do agree on one point, Heinicke versus Trubisky is a real camp battle.  I do think Trubisky prevails.  But i could easily envision the reports from camp that perhaps Heinicke looked better this day or that day.  I think Trubisky is clearly the more talented QB and for that reason the one I'd prefer.  But if we are talking purely as players, I think they are in a similar strata -- both bottom rung starters or backups.  Trubisky IMO is a half peg better. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Has there been so much as a whisper out of anyone on the team that our QB is already on the roster?

 

I'm not saying they don't like or respect him, but if they truly believed they could win with him, they'd at least be whispering sweet nothings about how he should get a chance - even if they really don't mean it.  

I don't think TH's standing on the QB depth chart is an issue with the players yet because no one else is here to challenge him so why would the players say anything? And just because they like him doesn't mean they would turn Russell Wilson away.

Heinicke is a cheap, very likeable teammate who has shown he can win games in the NFL...that's all I'm saying. If anyone wants to dispute this then go ahead, I don't think I'm saying anything outrageous or earth shattering. I think he has value at 1.5 mil a season.

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not that some of those others FAs aren't any good, but Trubisky is a bit infamous for whatever reason.

Hes considered one of the bigger busts in recent draft history and the last time we saw him take meaningful snaps was in a playoff game when he ducked out of bounds in on a final drive 3 yards short of the first on a 4th down. 

 

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If they sign Trubisky or for that matter any of these FAs, IMO they must draft a QB

It feels like they either cant afford to wait on the guy to develop or just plain done like them based on Ron comments. @Connand I have touched on this a couple times. I think they will be stunned at the backlash they get if they do a Trubs and 3rd round pick. The fanbase realizes that odds of anything good happening from that scenario is a massive long shot. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Beck-Rex camp.

Not a bad comp but at least that was done after a swing the previous year and was only in year 2. If they do a Trubs Taylor camp they still havent really tried anything before entering year 4. I think it would be the most frustrated the fanbase has been in a long time with a staff in a completely new way. 

[CobraCommander]

46 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Signing Mitchell Trubisky and drafting Desmond Ridder will seal Rivera and Co.'s fate.  

[DJHJR86]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The point I am leading to is I think Rivera might be given another shot in 2023 if it fails in 2022.  Dan is stupid but I am assuming not to the degree that he wouldn't get the fallout of firing Rivera before his contract is up.  

 

He's going to get all 5 years.  And it's going to be mediocre to awful seasons if he goes in that direction.  

[DJHJR86]

30 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

He's fine as a 3rd option for sure, but I wouldn't care if that 3rd option was Heineke or Allen - can't expect too much at the 3rd spot.

 

I would not be upset if they look at the available free agents and pass knowing that they are going to go all in on the draft to draft a quarterback and have a rookie and Heinicke going into the season.  Seems like Scott Turner hinted at this at his last press conference.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/taylor-heinicke-will-be-factor-regardless-any-qb-moves-scott-turner

[Zim489]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got just one criticism for Rivera if it goes down like that.  It stuns me that seem think he doesn't value the spot -- he screams desperation, billboard level desperation for a big time QB

Its his actions coupled with talks leading up to this year. Every move IMO should be made with QB in mind if you dont have one. If youre not in a spot to get one "How can I make getting one easier?" He hasnt tried to accumulate assets. He hasnt sold off pieces that werent going to be there. He hasnt traded back to collect picks. He hasnt over traded in a move to trade up for a rookie in 2021 in the best class in a while. He's settled with a half ass swing at stafford. Thats really it. 

 

He's starting to seem desperate now in year 3. Unfortunately he's picked the worst possible offseason to be so when fans who follow this stuff closely called this scenario out years in the making. The lack of foresight and planning is honestly stunning. It feels like the whole thing is "oh well we'll try next year with better luck" like he has unlimited time or just stupidly believes the perfect scenario is just going to fall into his lap. Elite QBs don't go to FA market and why would they come here. One miscalculation by Ron. If you thought you could get one through trade why didnt he try and get more assets to do make the move. Thats if they even want to come here.

 

Its just that as an outsider who understands where QB fills in with this league its beyond frustrating to watch Ron maneuver through this without a real swing 3 years into this. Just total misunderstanding of the value of the position, the franchises standing in regards to already existing elite QBs willingness to come here, the sheer cost of getting one if they do want to come, the lack of preparing to acquire assets to get one, and the unwillingness to move on from assets to move up for a rookie last year because of cost but will likely ultimately have to give them up in 2023 anyways when he doesnt care about cost anymore with him possibly having no future here. 

 

Its starting to feel like the organization is getting close into the save your ass mode. Minimize the Risk. Sign a Trubs for no cost (asset wise), get a second or 3rd round guy to avoid a first round bust from the worst QB class in a decade even though we all know the day 2 pick will fail like they all do. Do everything in your power to go 9-8 to try and squeek into the playoffs just to lose to the 2 seed on the road in a 38-14 loss and continue to claim that were close.

 

Were in the same damn scenario we were in with Jay and Bruce with just a better organizational culture with less chance of actually bottoming out so even less hope because theres no chance we get a QB worth anything here. Im fully out on Ron. Were entering the exact situation Panther fans warned us of. We'll be a decent team under Ron and he'll keep you from being bad but you wont ever go anywhere with him. Im just tired of the damn purgatory we have been for my entire fandom. Everything starts at QB and Ron seems to have zero idea how to fix the problem. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I would expect them to interview most of the named QBs in the draft. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 Im fully out on Ron. 

 

That's not hard to tell from all your hit posts on him.  I can't recall a poster so relentless down on a coach we've had.  Maybe me with Zorn?  @Voice_of_Reason with Jay?  

 

In the context, of your posts, and one exchange I can recall, It feels like while you don't like Dan you indeed have some faith in Dan to pull off whatever upgrade he needs to -- suggesting he has the judgment to do it and expect no fall out from a Ron firing where this is an attractive place to come for top prospects.   If so, I dont agree even a little.

 

29 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Were entering the exact situation Panther fans warned us of. 

 

Matt Rhule has proven that Ron was the problem.   Panther fans love Rhule.  😀

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

Its starting to feel like the organization is getting close into the save your ass mode. Minimize the Risk. Sign a Trubs for no cost (asset wise), get a second or 3rd round guy to avoid a first round bust from the worst QB class in a decade even though we all know the day 2 pick will fail like they all do. Do everything in your power to go 9-8 to try and squeek into the playoffs just to lose to the 2 seed on the road in a 38-14 loss and continue to claim that were close.

 

 

The post implies when aren't we in the playoffs like we are the Bengals back in the Dalton days, always in the playoffs but always knocked out.  Just getting to the playoffs is our version of the SB.  Yeah like you I want better than that.

 

But I think the whole premise of where you are coming from isn't based on reality.

 

A.  this team isn't a 3-14 team even with Heinicke starting

B.  So the question is 8-9 or 10-7 in the playoffs.   I'd take the playoffs

C. Coaches dont tank.  That's fan fantasy stuff

 

And you say this is the worst QB class, yet you want him to take a dude in the first round and not the 2nd but why?  Just because the stats say the first round yields better results?  Normally I push that same logic.  But every draft isn't the same.  If they don't think for example Matt Corral (although I disagree with them on this if this is how they feel) is a first round prospect -- just the idea of take him anyway in the first round and that increases the odds of his success just because that's where they took him?  If so Dan Snyder was brilliant to do the same with Haskins.  Yeah his scouts told him he was a 2nd-3rd round prospect but since Dan took him in the first it increased his odds for success?

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, UK Skins said:

Ridder is a second rounder isn't he? I could live with that, especially if we got a monster MLB in the first.

 

I'd trade back up into the 1st for him so we get that 5th year option. If we can get a monster MLB or Kyle Hamilton and we can get Ridder/Howell in the late 1st, I am more than okay with that...even if it means we have Mitch Trubisky for a year.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Riggo#44

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I'd trade back up into the 1st for him so we get that 5th year option.

I think he'll be taken in the 1st round.  He is going to rise up draft board, IMO.  I believe he has a good Combine and Pro Day when he throws and goes through the drills.