The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think TH sucks, good backup.  But he doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy IMO to be anything better than a pure bottom run starter.  I think he's fine as a backup.

 

Actually its similar to how I feel about Trubisky, too, fine as a backup.  But to me Trubisky's size and arm strength and willingness to actually use his speed makes him a half a peg better than Heinicke.

 

If they sign Trubisky or for that matter any of these FAs, IMO they must draft a QB.  I don't care who it is as long as its one of the top 6 QBs -- all of whom IMO are potentially better than both Trubisky or Heinicke.

 

Ridder and Strong are the ones I waffle on the most.  But I can easily see either player beating Trubisky and Heinicke in camp.

 

I've defended Rivera plenty.  But if he just runs with Heinicke and Trubisky then he better be right because I strongly suspect he would be wrong and that camp will feel eerily similar to the Beck-Rex camp.  While I disagree with Jay that Heinicke beats Trubisky in camp I do agree that it ends up a close competition and for my taste a really depressing competition. 

If Ron doesn't draft a qb in round 1 or 2, in addition to vet qb; he better win. 9-8 at minimum and I'm not sure a non-playoff means He's back in 23.  He definitely should be fired if he goes 8-9 or worse with Vet/TH.

 

Drafting a qb must be part of the 22 equation.  If you have to draft again in 23; so be it. 24, So be it; Ron will be gone by then. Next time we get a coach, get an offensive guy. This is an offensive league.  Just make sure he hires a good DC and not the idiots Shanny and Jay hired.

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

It is what it is...I'm starting to think he doesn't even have hands. I've never seen them. Only gloves. He could have chicken feet at the end of his arms for all we know. PROVE ME WRONG. 

Pretty suspicious he’s keeping his “hands” under the table in that pic if you ask me!

[Zim489]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

In this case I'm not really sure I understand the point of taking a QB in the 2nd round then. If they think the guy in question has a good shot of becoming a franchise QB, wouldn't they'd take him at 11?

 

And if the guy falls to the 2nd because he's got physical talent and upside but would need some work to start in the NFL (I'm thinking Ridder, for example) then usually that's a guy you'd give some time to...but if they turn around and draft another guy in the 1st next year then they didn't really give the upside guy a chance to see what he could do.

This is exactly the same thought process I have. If a guy is thought of a franchise QB he’d be a first round guy if he’s healthy. 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If Ron doesn't draft a qb in round 1 or 2, in addition to vet qb; he better win. 9-8 at minimum and I'm not sure a non-playoff means He's back in 23.  He definitely should be fired if he goes 8-9 or worse with Vet/TH.

 

Drafting a qb must be part of the 22 equation.  If you have to draft again in 23; so be it. 24, So be it; Ron will be gone by then. Next time we get a coach, get an offensive guy. This is an offensive league.  Just make sure he hires a good DC and not the idiots Shanny and Jay hired.

 

Yes let's run a coach out of town in 4 years since that has worked so well for us in the last 20+ years. We have to get rid of this instant success mentality. We won the division last year. Almost playoff team this year (****ing covid-19 and injuries). Give the guy a break! Ron knows what he needs to do. I am pretty sure he knows he needs to draft a QB. But things can still go sideways. Keep Ron for 5 years first at least. 

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Dont know how he is going to get one of them. Going to have to find some more picks to move up. And its playing out exactly like I said it would be. A code red scenario where its 100% being forced to win in a rookie year. That always works out great. 

 

I figured Rivera wanting to shoot multiple years if needed in the draft would be a bad sign for getting a QB because everything comes off from you as bad.

 

Sounds like the only scenario you like is them goung 2-15 and landing the first pick in the draft.  And damn Rivera is too good to have a 2-15 team and that's part of your beef.

 

 

 

On another note, Standig seems to think Willis is in play.  keim has been back and forth on it. 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Yes let's run a coach out of town in 4 years since that has worked so well for us in the last 20+ years. We have to get rid of this instant success mentality. We won the division last year. Almost playoff team this year (****ing covid-19 and injuries). Give the guy a break! Ron knows what he needs to do. I am pretty sure he knows he needs to draft a QB. But things can still go sideways. Keep Ron for 5 years first at least. 

 

We won the division in 2020 because Dak was injured and our division was absolutely awful. We weren't a very good team. In 2021 we were meh, our offense was stagnant most of the season and our defense was crap the first half. Even if we had managed to luck into the playoffs again we probably would have been demolished in the 1st round. I don't think we should kid ourselves into thinking that we were anything even close to a contender.

 

That being said, I do think we're a legit QB away from being an actual good team. I also agree with you about running Ron out of town. I've mentioned several times before that I think Ron isn't going to have a lot of time, but that's not me wanting him to go, that's me being realistic about what a moron Dan Snyder is.

[Est.1974]

Willis to ATL seems the most likely outcome to me.

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

To promptly lose their first game in the playoffs and struggle to score 17 points at home.

I agree. They actually need to upgrade at QB to have a chance of realistically competing.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

In this case I'm not really sure I understand the point of taking a QB in the 2nd round then. If they think the guy in question has a good shot of becoming a franchise QB, wouldn't they'd take him at 11?

 

And if the guy falls to the 2nd because he's got physical talent and upside but would need some work to start in the NFL (I'm thinking Ridder, for example) then usually that's a guy you'd give some time to...but if they turn around and draft another guy in the 1st next year then they didn't really give the upside guy a chance to see what he could do.

 

The concept the way I understand it is this

 

If anyone had the magic formula to find franchise QBs via the draft, they'd be billionaries.   No magic formula.  It's clearly not easy as we know. 

 

As coaches like Gibbs, Shanny, Arians have said you often don't really know what you got until you got them in the locker room.  Shanny said you can tell within a week of having the player in house as far as intangibles but its really tough to know for sure until you have them in house. 

 

Also, their field vision, ability to process quick, work habits, you need to see it up close.  I run a businiess I have hired people that I worked with previously from a distance but once I worked more closely with them where they worked for me specifically, I saw them in ways I didn't see them before.

 

Jim Nagy talks a little bit about this.  Saying some of the star plays like Terry who weren't considered stars at the time conducted themsleves very professionally in every way possible. Citing the same from other players who ended up stars. Early to meetings.  If they needed paper work, they'd get the paper work in time.  They'd stay extra after practice, etc.  Some of the ones who underacheived in the pros were the opposite.

 

So bringing that here, lets say they take Ridder.  They will know a lot more about Ridder in house then they would now.  If they like what they see, they keep him.  If they don't they move on.   

 

Unless you are hitting up the slam dunk type QBs like Burrow when it comes to the maybe type QBs which are arguably ALL of these QBs in this draft -- it helps to play a card and see how it goes. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Spaceman Spiff]

You guys are disappointing.  I went back a few pages to look for a meltdown about Russell Wilson after that video yesterday but didn't see one.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

We won the division in 2020 because Dak was injured and our division was absolutely awful. We weren't a very good team. In 2021 we were meh, our offense was stagnant most of the season and our defense was crap the first half. Even if we had managed to luck into the playoffs again we probably would have been demolished in the 1st round. I don't think we should kid ourselves into thinking that we were anything even close to a contender.

 

That being said, I do think we're a legit QB away from being an actual good team. I also agree with you about running Ron out of town. I've mentioned several times before that I think Ron isn't going to have a lot of time, but that's not me wanting him to go, that's me being realistic about what a moron Dan Snyder is.

 

It's a decent team IMO, not a great one in desperate need of a QB. 

 

They had the hardest schedule in the NFL according to DVOA metrics.  As Keim said in the podcast today, facing every big time QB in the NFL for a spell will dampen the stats of a defense.  The defense settled down when the schedule eased up a little and they made some adjustments to the secondary.

 

The previous season Haskins went 1-5.  They were much better without him. 

 

But both teams had something in common "meh" QB play.  We are dead last if i recall in QBR since 2017 or something like that?

9 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You guys are disappointing.  I went back a few pages to look for a meltdown about Russell Wilson after that video yesterday but didn't see one.

 

I think weve moved on from Wilson.  It's turned to apprehension that we lose out on Trubisky. 😀

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I figured Rivera wanting to shoot multiple years if needed in the draft would be a bad sign for getting a QB because everything comes off from you as bad.

 

Sounds like the only scenario you like is them goung 2-15 and landing the first pick in the draft.  And damn Rivera is too good to have a 2-15 team and that's part of your beef.

 

 

 

On another note, Standig seems to think Willis is in play.  keim has been back and forth on it. 

 

 

My thinking is if Pickett is selected by the Panthers or Broncos, Willis is there.  Commanders might get a call from the Steelwers giving them an offer they might not able to refuse to trade down to #20 if the Commanders want Ridder or Commanders might just take Willis.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Mentoned yesterday I think Carr, RW, Rodgers are all off the table.  Watson has so many issues, he's probably off the table too and I don't want us to trade and spend millions on Wentz or Jimmy G.. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

My thinking is if Pickett is selected by the Panthers or Broncos, Willis is there.  Commanders might get a call from the Steelwers giving them an offer they might not able to refuse to trade down to #20 if the Commanders want Ridder or Commanders might just take Willis.  

 

Maybe.    As Keim mentioned there is still time and things coming up including the combine for minds to change/evolve on some of these QBs.  So it should be interesting post combine.

 

 

[Zim489]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sounds like the only scenario you like is them goung 2-15 and landing the first pick in the draft.

Like? No I hate watching them have ****ty years but it could be a necessary evil at some point youre just going to have let your team bottom out or force it down there through massive sell offs. 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I'd trade back up into the 1st for him so we get that 5th year option. If we can get a monster MLB or Kyle Hamilton and we can get Ridder/Howell in the late 1st, I am more than okay with that...even if it means we have Mitch Trubisky for a year.

Trade Payne or Sweat, we can’t pay all our players in the D-line. Allen got paid. Chase likely gets paid. Our future MLB gets paid. You have to pick and choose.

[ExoDus84]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Pickett is a huge Eagles fan.

 

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I think we're gonna make a Hershel Walker type of offer to Seattle for Russ Wilson...I can just feel it. Something like this:

Seattle recieves:

1st round picks in 2022, 2023, 2024

2nd round pick in 2023, 2025

Kam Curl

Matt Ionaiddis

Taylor Heinicke

Commanders recieve:

Russell Wilson

DK Metcalf

5th round pick in 2023

 

I can see us doing something along these lines....I wouldn't do it but I think we have reached the point of this kind of a crazy offer to land a QB.

 

 

Russell is going nowhere and neither is Aaron. 23 is a different story

4 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I think Dan can hire the one person he needs to hire to run the organization. He's done it time and time again. He's just picked wrong. Get the right GM and everything can fall into place. 

Dan won’t hire a true Gm. He wants to be able to play, hence Vinny and Bruce.

 

When Dan cedes control; he only cedes it to head coach.

[oraphus]

Looks like Giants might pass on Daniel Jones option... i highly doubt they would trade him in the division though but I'd love to see what he can do behind a good O line. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Like? No I hate watching them have ****ty years but it could be a necessary evil at some point youre just going to have let your team bottom out or force it down there through massive sell offs. 

 

If that's what you want, blame Dan Snyder not Ron Rivera.  100% on Dan Synder.   All your angst should be on him.

 

It's been said to death Dan has no patience for a tear down.  Heck Rivera even joked about Dan's lack of patience in his opening press conference.

 

The most open tear down sell off was with the Dolphins and its been said to death (I know from reading the Florida papers which I do everyday) that the owner is the one who directed it.  According to Flores maybe he directed it too aggressively.  A tear down is an owner call, not a coach. 

 

It came out in a story when Scot McCloughan was hired, Bruce told Dan can you be patient to allow Scot rebuild this roster -- implying that Dan has no tolerance for losing

 

There is zero indication that Dan has any interest in a rebuild - ever.   It's practically stamped on Dan Snyder's head.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's a decent team IMO, not a great one in desperate need of a QB. 

I agree with this statement. Its a decently constructed roster overall. Besides lacking a QB I feel this team right now is severely lacking top end talent. Guys you can consider the top 5 or so in their position. The hope chase can become one but past that we dont have a single player besides Jon Allen. 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's been said to death Dan has no patience for a tear down

Oh I 100% agree. The incessant need to win now has been the ultimate down fall but I dont agree that Ron didnt have the full authority to do that. IMO he could have. I think the larger issue is not having some one above the HC who sees more than just winning the next game that most coaches think in. And in 2020 it wouldnt have done much to accomplish it. 

9 minutes ago, oraphus said:

Looks like Giants might pass on Daniel Jones option... i highly doubt they would trade him in the division though but I'd love to see what he can do behind a good O line. 

The dude is awful. I will never understand the thought process some have of a bad team is looking to replace their bad QB and that we should try them out. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

are you just really bad with context clues in your day to day life? lol you crack me up man I love it 

 

Edit: I see you’ve been made fun of already, I respect you for not editing the post! 

No, i know stafford isn’t a bust (hence super bowl win) which is why i was questioning why or how anyone would actually think that. Didn’t realize until right after i hit submit, what SIP’s point was. That’s all. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yep said earlier the 49ers really need the cap space so something has to give before free agency.